what will really help usa, long and w/ *edited* poll

[M2008S]

*edit one- poll answers modified (reworded) but still reflects the previous answers

first of all i am speaking from my mind and voicing my opinion, those who disagree need not bash. you may disagree via reply but dont have a hissy fit. this might not make sence to you but in my mind it does, i encourage replies adding to the post to make better sence... i dont have a way with words and explaining myself.

excuse all my language and terms for i know no different way to get my thoughts through easily. i am a middle class citizen. my family is blue collar. i am republican with some "democratic" views, middle of the road. this most likely will be a very long post. excuse typos.

i think that many people are focusing on the big issues, which is fine for them. i like to think of the little things

the top candidates as of now are mccain and obama... also hillary is trailing obama on the democrat side.

many people want to pull out of iraq. what i believe is that we should probably put a cap on the troops. if we pull out, they'll have their shit back and might even retalliate on our soil. i say we stay there but dont send more, i see no need to send more RIGHT NOW, thats not commenting on a much later date. we cant abandon what we've created but we need to save money.

that being said, i do not think iraq is our main disability.

our economy has gone to shit. the dollar has gone down. lending is fucked interest rates are being lowered which isnt helping believe it or not because theres not enough lending being done! so many americans have lost their jobs to overseas or the like. many many things are hurting our economy and the way i can put it is like fuel injection on a car. everything relys on something else and in this case one thing happens and it spirals and hurts many others causing the engine (usa) to work poorly

interest is down to stimulate spending, cant spend because jobs are being lost to overseas. we're being taxed which is costing us more so we have less money in our checks to spend so we cant buy things that need bought to stimulate the economy. buying grocieries and paying your bills doesnt do jack. in fact, many american can barely do that.

so we cant spend because of taxing and job loss, on top of that us businesses are taxed and those going overseas = taxed less, wtf m8? theres more money lost.

so jobs lost high tax and etc doesnt help because we cant spend to keep the economy booming. even if interest is "at an all time low" we need to tax those companies leaving MORE, we need to get more jobs HERE to earn more to spend more.

now comes to the issue of immigration. many of these aliens are working for a living so we lost jobs there because they take less money. thats a no no. we need to enforce borders and protect us, kick the trouble makers out. we can keep the honest working indivuals. thatll do, we can survive. jacking min wage up and lowering interest rates and etc either way it doesnt help, WE NEED BALANCED.

so basically our economy is going down the dollar is going down because we're losing jobs overseas, losing jobs overseas causes us to have less money and having less money makes us spend less. spending less hurts the economy so we are in a spiral down.

cheap isnt always good. spending trillions on the war, yes.. but we can get out or send more or stay or whatever but it still doesnt help the fact that we have no $ to spend here (keep in mind us leaving causes them to move back in which makes more fighting no matter what, we cant stop the fighting, we're adding to it but either way it doesnt end. we are stuck). we need a cap, tax cuts on lower and middle and homeland businesses, tax more on those who make more. CEOs make more in 10 sec than my family in a year, tax those asses and give me some cuts, equilibrium. we cant ever be perfect but we can get closer to it.

we need to focus on us and our economy and our land, but we cant just abandon what we've done and helped to make therefore we got our foot in a beartrap. we need to figure out what is needed and what isnt, cut the wasteful spending. dont say iraq is wasteful because ive already explained that it doesnt matter if we stay or go, americans need the money. we leave, we get attacked, we fight anyways, we lose our ground and freedom.

obama wants out of iraq to stop fighting in africa. how does that help?? its the same thing, put terrorists in africa. its the same. fight here for less fighting between the locals or fight there for less fighting between locals, no freaking difference. so thats out. theres still so much more but for now thats whats on my mind.

all im thinking about is focus on us, our money, our jobs, our spending. keep jobs here pay well spend more keep the govt from dipping so much.. basically i think we need to change ourselves rather than try to change others where would those of you that are high up be without the little people?

 

[blackangst1]

Good rant. The only thing I really disagree with is your comment about taxes. It smells of class envy. Just remember. YOUR lifestyle, as much as you may struggle, is also envied. Its all in perspective

but good rant

 

[fskimospy]

So our poll options are "should we focus on the economy or surrender to terrorists in Iraq"? This seems dumb.

 

[bbdub333]

I'm going to wait for LegendKiller to jump in on this one...

 

[GTaudiophile]

If Bush had balls he would have resigned by now...

My biggest rant is that is NOT ONE SINGLE politician in Washington or who wants to be there who actually gives a damn about you, me, the people, the middle class, etc. It's about themselves, their egos, and their special interests. I wish the American people would figure this out. The whole lot of them needs to go.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think the more you know and the deeper you go the more complicated things will appear. I think there is a desire that things be simple because often times I think we don't think we have the strength for the complex. But what we may want to be and what is may not be the same. We have to tolerate a certain amount of stress. Americans have a habit of being impatient.

 

[schdaddy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
So our poll options are "should we focus on the economy or surrender to terrorists in Iraq"? This seems dumb.

true, the poll sucks

 

[M2008S]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
If Bush had balls he would have resigned by now...

My biggest rant is that is NOT ONE SINGLE politician in Washington or who wants to be there who actually gives a damn about you, me, the people, the middle class, etc. It's about themselves, their egos, and their special interests. I wish the American people would figure this out. The whole lot of them needs to go.

i totally agree with you.

Originally posted by: eskimospy
So our poll options are "should we focus on the economy or surrender to terrorists in Iraq"? This seems dumb.

also my polls options were just whats on my mind not a definite decision. ill try to figure out new options

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think the more you know and the deeper you go the more complicated things will appear. I think there is a desire that things be simple because often times I think we don't think we have the strength for the complex. But what we may want to be and what is may not be the same. We have to tolerate a certain amount of stress. Americans have a habit of being impatient.

yes theres a lot to everything and i totally believe i only understand a very small part...

well, i just casted my vote as a 17 year old in ohio. polls were a bit scattered... i was the only 17 yr old at my polling place and they didnt seem to know what they were doing. i got a paper ballot instead of electronic also...

 

[sandorski]

Iraqi's have no interest in coming to America and attacking you. They never did before anyways.

 

[M2008S]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Iraqi's have no interest in coming to America and attacking you. They never did before anyways.

not just iraqi's specifically, i mean everyone and anyone over there. you have your car bombers and suicide bombers and etc and we dont need that here. im sure they could find a way if they wanted to. its not impossible

 

[StageLeft]

Foreign policy and Iraq at the moment. The economy is in great part being influenced by the misendeavours of the US and they have long standing and major repercussions, including the gross increase of national debt and its influence on the economy. Iraq is more than some lives lost.

 

[M2008S]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Foreign policy and Iraq at the moment. The economy is in great part being influenced by the misendeavours of the US and they have long standing and major repercussions, including the gross increase of national debt and its influence on the economy. Iraq is more than some lives lost.

i agree that iraq is more than lives lost. i still think that we have as big as a problem at home, thats why i thought of the troop cap instead of leaving or sending..

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: M2008S

Originally posted by: sandorski
Iraqi's have no interest in coming to America and attacking you. They never did before anyways.

not just iraqi's specifically, i mean everyone and anyone over there. you have your car bombers and suicide bombers and etc and we dont need that here. im sure they could find a way if they wanted to. its not impossible

Uh, come on now. They have more reason to be doing all that already because you are there. Being over there just taunts them to come over "here".

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
If Bush had balls he would have resigned by now...

My biggest rant is that is NOT ONE SINGLE politician in Washington or who wants to be there who actually gives a damn about you, me, the people, the middle class, etc. It's about themselves, their egos, and their special interests. I wish the American people would figure this out. The whole lot of them needs to go.

They won't remove themselves or their own. Washington DC is an elite class that'll never be changed from within. We the people must change it from the outside by making it irrelevant. Secession is an inherent right and the most critical check and balance.

Of course everyone knows they aren?t going to like that, but when only 11% approve of Washington DC, who the hell cares what they like? This isn?t about them, it?s about us. Yet even with low approval ratings, no one is going to bother lifting a finger to fix this problem until Congress?s policies bring pain and suffering to our people.

Today?s economic woe is a small window of opportunity to avert the greater suffering we?ll all face in 20 years if we continue down this path of infinitely growing centralized authority. Maybe local people will look out for themselves instead of selling their soul to the nanny state. Or maybe we?ll continue to bleat and cry foul while also not doing a damn thing.

 

[piasabird]

Both of those topics are the same topic:
"the USA as a nation, our economy our jobs and the dollar. the local little things that affect us..."
"iraq and foreign affairs, war. the major spending"

I think one big problem is we need to concentrate on a slow and gradual withdrawl of our troops from foreign countries as much as possible. This includes Iraq, Italy, South Korea, UK, Germany, France, Japan, South America, etc.

The EU, Japan and Korea do not need to be protected. They all have armies of their own. Let them protect their own turf. If they do not want to pay for the troops we protect Europe with then let them all kill each other. They have been under our protection in Europe for 50+ years. They can pay up or go to hell. So we should demand payment or leave. Let them start to solve their own problems for a while.

The theme here is by keeping our troops in the EU we are supplementing their economy and giving them an economic advantage over us. Let them come to the reality that Moscow is as powerful now as it ever was and that China is beefing up its military. Who does China plan on attacking? The world is becoming a dangerous place and much of it is fueled on American Dollars. We need to take a careful look at how we are running our economy. I dont think it is in our best interest to buy all our products overseas. What happens if China Starts a war that we do not like? Would we continue buying their products while they kill people?

 

[zlocke17]

i say gas is too expensive. lets worry about that. iraq isnt going anywhere. oh and inflation. its about to go crazy and nobody is helping. raising the minimum wage makes it worse.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: piasabird

The EU, Japan and Korea do not need to be protected. They all have armies of their own. Let them protect their own turf. If they do not want to pay for the troops we protect Europe with then let them all kill each other. They have been under our protection in Europe for 50+ years. They can pay up or go to hell. So we should demand payment or leave. Let them start to solve their own problems for a while.

Our forces are not in Europe to protect them anymore. They are there to protect us from them. You are not looking long-term.

 

[Drift3r]

Our only goal after 9/11 happened should of stayed with taking down Bin Laden. Nation building is not what our armed forces and nation was setup to accomplish. We know what part of the world Bin Laden is hiding out in and it's not Iraq or Iran. Frankly we are wasting huge amounts of resources and man power on an endeavor which will only benefit the finical buddies of the current administration but not the American people. The main focus of the next president should be to get us back in the black when it comes to our national debt and to help Americans endure this current finical downturn in our economy. If a terrorist wanted to strike us today he/she would have no problem doing so whatsoever. Iraq is not a deterrent or roadblock it's just a distraction and bottomless pit for US tax dollars.

 

[ProfJohn]

Reading your post it seems that you have caught all the ?buzz? words but don?t know many of the details.

Tax cuts for the poor and middle class: 50% of the country pays virtually no taxes as it is, and many of the ?poor? actually get checks from the government which means they actually have a negative tax rate. Meanwhile the rich CEO types (top 1% of earners) pay 39% of ALL income taxes.

Job losses: Again you are reading the headlines, but not reading the fine details. There is a recent thread around here that pointed out that we actually manufacture more today, in dollar terms, than in the past despite the fact that we have lost millions of manufacturing jobs. Then you have the fact that China, the big boogie man, is losing manufacturing jobs faster than us.

This is happening because automation makes production quicker and cheaper and requiring less people. Complain all you want about job leaving the country, it won?t make a difference. We could cap the amount of products imported into the country and you still wouldn?t see all the old jobs return. In 1999 the big 3 took 24 hours of labor to produce one car, in 2006 it was down to 20 hours, while the Japanese do it in 18 hours. Take that four hours of saving and times it by the 15 million cars produced in 2006 and it works out to about 30,000 less full time employees.

Let?s also not forget how all these foreign produced products have greatly improved our life styles. Look at all the nice stuff you have in your house and imagine if all that stuff cost 10% more than what you paid for it. You?d have a lot less stuff to look at. Then compare the quality of products produced today to products produced 20 years ago, especially in industries that had little competition.

The Iraq war: Our entire defense budget is around $500 billion a year. Our entire Federal budget this year will be around $3 trillion, six times what we spend on defense and 30 times what we spend on Iraq. Add to that the $1.5 to $2 trillion spent by state and local government and you will see that the Iraq war is just a small part of our overall government spending. Yes it would be nice if we weren?t spending $100 billion on Iraq every year, but let?s not act as if Iraq is sucking up all the money and thus leaving us with no money to spend elsewhere.

Finally, your poll. Again you seem to be missing the big picture. The 2008 fiscal budget has us spending $607 billion on ?national defense? and $1,864 billion on ?human resources? (Education, health, Medicare, SS etc) If you want to talk about the ?major spending? do you focus on the 20% going to national defense or the 62% going to human resources? (In case you missed it, the Defense Department is no long the largest agency in the Federal Government, that titles has belonged t the Health and Human Services Department since 1994.)

BTW I could go on, but I think I have written more than enough. But one last comment about the whole ?jobs lost? thing that you keep going back too. When Bill Clinton took office in 1992 (pre-NAFTA) our GDP in 2000 dollars was $7,336 billion. In 2006 it was $11.319 billion, a more than 50% increase in size. During the same time we increased our population from 256 million to 299 million, only a 16% increase. So our economy is growing MUCH faster than our population, despite NAFTA and all these ?job losses? that you keep talking about. Also median household income continued to rise during this time frame. So despite all the job losses and even the influx of immigrant workers our economy is still stronger today than it was 16 years ago.