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What will Intel release after the Pentium 3258 (Overclocking dual core)?

cbn

cbn

Lifer
The reviews I have seen of the Pentium 3258 look very favorable so far. In fact, I am very impressed with this new class of desktop processor. (This is definitely the sort of thing that makes budget desktop enjoyable again IMO.)


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So I have a few questions:

1. What could Intel release (or is likely to release) after the Pentium 3258 in terms of Overclocking dual cores?

Maybe a unlocked LGA Core i3?

Unlocked LGA dual core Pentiums and Core i3s with GT3 graphics?

2. How about chipsets and motherboard platforms to make the OC dual core more affordable?

Maybe a new class of lower end PCHs with unlocked multiplier overclocking enabled? (Eg, take a H81...add a small price premium to it and/or disabled features.....call it Z81.... and allow unlocked multiplier overclocking, etc)

How about BGA platforms with unlocked multipliers? (I would be very interested in a unlocked Pentium GT1 BGA dual core even with the limited PCI-E lanes than come with it)

3. What would AMD's potential response be to an introduction of Intel Overclocking dual cores?

Maybe AMD will release desktop chips with more functional units enabled? (example: FM2+ processors with more CUs enabled for the single module/dual core SKUs.)
 
Regarding part 3- AMD can't release APUs with more CUs enabled, as Kaveri is fully enabled in the 7850k. They could build a new APU with more CUs, but it would be no faster due to the memory bandwidth. Heck, they're not even clocking the GPU as high as it can go- GCN is good up to 1GHz, and Kaveri GPU is at 720MHz.

They need more bandwidth to improve the GPU.
 
NTMBK said:
Regarding part 3- AMD can't release APUs with more CUs enabled, as Kaveri is fully enabled in the 7850k. They could build a new APU with more CUs, but it would be no faster due to the memory bandwidth. Heck, they're not even clocking the GPU as high as it can go- GCN is good up to 1GHz, and Kaveri GPU is at 720MHz.

They need more bandwidth to improve the GPU.
Click to expand...

Yes, the top Kaveri SKU has all eight CUs enabled (yielding 512 GCN stream processors).

I was thinking mainly of the lower end desktop dual core (single module) SKUs. Maybe 5 CUs (320 stream processors) or 6 CUs (384 stream processors) enabled could be the starting point for those?

Right now, According this Anandtech article the dual core "K" Kaveri weighs in with only 4CUs (256 GCN stream processors enabled). A "non-K" dual core might even come with less (maybe 192 GCN stream processors).

IMHO Bumping to 320 stream processors for the lowest end dual core and 384 stream processors for the "K" dual core could go a long way to improving the value of Desktop APU line-up.
 
Maybe even bumping the midrange quad core APUs from 384 stream processors (6 CUs) to 448 stream processors (7CUs) would help too.
 
it's hard to know what Intel is trying to achieve with the 3258, maybe it's just for the 20th anniversary anyway, and nothing similar is going to happen anytime soon.

but they probably know things like the Pentium e5200 made a lot of success with overclocking, and they attempted something similar to the 3258 with the Pentium e6500K, but it had no availability and it hardly made any sense (because lga 775 could be overclocked with FSB)

as for cheaper OC chipsets... last year we already had H81/B85 OC boards, but Intel didn't like the idea I think
 
Just to add that Pentium 3258 is an anniversary product, i dont expect Intel to continue with Dual Core Unlocked SKUs in the future.
 
1. An unlocked i3 would be great but really there's no competition to force them to do that as it would cut into their own low-end i5 sales.

2. Motherboard manufacturers probably wouldn't want that. There's probably little real difference in actual manufacturing costs between a Z and H board. Price differences are often more about market segregation & what a target audience is willing to pay. Buying the absolute cheapest board for OCing isn't always the best solution for either brand.

3. AMD would be in deep sh*t if Intel released an unlocked i3 for the price of a Pentium. Even now the G3258 has virtually killed the X4 750K's budget chip monopoly status. Again though, they probably won't as Intel are quite happy where they are.

What AMD really need to do is pull off a whole new design with at least +50% higher IPC per-core, per-clock, per-watt rather than continue to do everything else but that. Piling on more slow cores and relying on Intel locking down their own low-end chips in the budget sector only goes so far. Faster GFX on APU's may make some difference, but really, most savvy people have already wisened up to the fact a cheap 2nd hand 7750-7850 GFX card bought on EBay for as little as $35-$85 will gain +50-190% higher fps vs even the top end AMD APU - and that's a perf/price premium even the most hard-up budget gamer will find hard to ignore.

448 vs 384 streams = a 16% boost (which is a bit like arguing over 21fps vs 18fps for BF4 @ 1080p for a $160 7770K APU) vs a $75 G3258 + $75 7790 / $85 7850 card which will net 40-65fps on same game at same "1080p medium" settings for the same price. Kaveri APU's still won't have the highest "bang-per-buck" for budget gamers even tweaking streams by 20%, (and even less for non-gamers) if you're willing to bargain hunt a decent low-mid range GFX card.

Right now as I type, on EBay there's 1x 7850 going for $70 (and 3 more for $85 - all Buy-It-Nows). Cheaper 7750's which are still 50% faster than a 7850K have been going for as little as $35-$40. Paired with a $75 G3258, it certainly puts a "budget" $160-$190 7770K / 7850K APU build in perspective... AMD would have to ramp up streams by 50% (and have that translate to an actual 50% higher perf which it won't with DDR3 memory being a bottleneck) then simultaneously cut the price by 20% before I'd even look at Kaveri unless there were strict "no discrete card" requirements (eg, slim mini-ITX case build).
 
I am not sure if the G3258 is a clear winner over the athlon x4 750k for budget gaming. I think it would depend on the game, and how availability of cheap overclocking motherboards turns out for the pentium. In fact, I would be reluctant to overclock on anything less than a Z board because of the fear that intel might put out an "update" that would nerf it. I do agree though that either chip in combination with a discrete gpu is a much better value in the desktop than Kaveri.
 
SPBHM said:
it's hard to know what Intel is trying to achieve with the 3258, maybe it's just for the 20th anniversary anyway, and nothing similar is going to happen anytime soon.

but they probably know things like the Pentium e5200 made a lot of success with overclocking, and they attempted something similar to the 3258 with the Pentium e6500K, but it had no availability and it hardly made any sense (because lga 775 could be overclocked with FSB)

as for cheaper OC chipsets... last year we already had H81/B85 OC boards, but Intel didn't like the idea I think
Click to expand...

My guess is Intel is testing the waters with Pentium 3258.

For $75, I think the performance will be seen as good enough by folks who didn't want to spend $200+ on a Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge/Haswell Core i5 quad core.

The biggest problem (I see) is the cost of the motherboard and thus I have to wonder what Intel's permanent solution will be to matching low cost platform for future overclocking dual cores?
 
Last edited:
BSim500 said:
1. An unlocked i3 would be great but really there's no competition to force them to do that as it would cut into their own low-end i5 sales.

2. Motherboard manufacturers probably wouldn't want that. There's probably little real difference in actual manufacturing costs between a Z and H board. Price differences are often more about market segregation & what a target audience is willing to pay. Buying the absolute cheapest board for OCing isn't always the best solution for either brand.

3. AMD would be in deep sh*t if Intel released an unlocked i3 for the price of a Pentium. Even now the G3258 has virtually killed the X4 750K's budget chip monopoly status. Again though, they probably won't as Intel are quite happy where they are.

What AMD really need to do is pull off a whole new design with at least +50% higher IPC per-core, per-clock, per-watt rather than continue to do everything else but that. Piling on more slow cores and relying on Intel locking down their own low-end chips in the budget sector only goes so far. Faster GFX on APU's may make some difference, but really, most savvy people have already wisened up to the fact a cheap 2nd hand 7750-7850 GFX card bought on EBay for as little as $35-$85 will gain +50-190% higher fps vs even the top end AMD APU - and that's a perf/price premium even the most hard-up budget gamer will find hard to ignore.

448 vs 384 streams = a 16% boost (which is a bit like arguing over 21fps vs 18fps for BF4 @ 1080p for a $160 7770K APU) vs a $75 G3258 + $75 7790 / $85 7850 card which will net 40-65fps on same game at same "1080p medium" settings for the same price. Kaveri APU's still won't have the highest "bang-per-buck" for budget gamers even tweaking streams by 20%, (and even less for non-gamers) if you're willing to bargain hunt a decent low-mid range GFX card.

Right now as I type, on EBay there's 1x 7850 going for $70 (and 3 more for $85 - all Buy-It-Nows). Cheaper 7750's which are still 50% faster than a 7850K have been going for as little as $35-$40. Paired with a $75 G3258, it certainly puts a "budget" $160-$190 7770K / 7850K APU build in perspective... AMD would have to ramp up streams by 50% (and have that translate to an actual 50% higher perf which it won't with DDR3 memory being a bottleneck) then simultaneously cut the price by 20% before I'd even look at Kaveri unless there were strict "no discrete card" requirements (eg, slim mini-ITX case build).
Click to expand...

I dont want to deviate from the OP but you can have an HP Desktop PC with A8-7600 at $419,99 including Windows 8.1 64bit. (click customize and choose the A8-7600). You can even choose the A10-7800 (512 cores) for $449,99.
I dont know if you can find a better performance at that price including an OS 😉

ps: Cheapest Core i3 (4150) is at $479,99.
 
AtenRa said:
I dont want to deviate from the OP but you can have an HP Desktop PC with A8-7600 at $419,99 including Windows 8.1 64bit. (click customize and choose the A8-7600). You can even choose the A10-7800 (512 cores) for $449,99.
I dont know if you can find a better performance at that price including an OS 😉

ps: Cheapest Core i3 (4150) is at $479,99.
Click to expand...

That is a good price considering:

1. It is the manufacturer price. (Sale prices should be lower)

2. It is a full width ATX sized PC with 300 watt PSU.

.....but I would like to know if AMD A8-7600 and A10-7800 will be found in SFF (Slim) desktop towers like the Lenovo H530s:

83-266-543-TS


(Having the APU in a SFF (slim) tower should significantly lower the price compared to having the same APU in a Full Size tower. This ATX to SFF(slim) pricing advantage definitely appears to be true with the Core i3 desktops where I have seen Haswell Core i3 H530s desktops for about $350 on sale)

Example: http://www.frys-electronics-ads.com...-PC-with-4th-Gen-Intel-Core-i3-4130-Processor
 
Holy carp, it's the a8-7600 in an actual OEM box? Astounding. And yeah that's a pretty good deal, too.

It's about time those chips showed up!

Back on topic: Intel may continue with the unlocked Pentiums if they prove profitable and if it lets them cut into AMD's sales on the low-end. I don't know of anyone that has actually gotten a G3258, nor do I know of how many have sold thus far.
 
DrMrLordX said:
Holy carp, it's the a8-7600 in an actual OEM box? Astounding. And yeah that's a pretty good deal, too.

It's about time those chips showed up!

Back on topic: Intel may continue with the unlocked Pentiums if they prove profitable and if it lets them cut into AMD's sales on the low-end. I don't know of anyone that has actually gotten a G3258, nor do I know of how many have sold thus far.
Click to expand...

Hopefully we see a good race between Intel and AMD on "Value Performance Desktop" (Pre-built and DIY). Recently it seems this segment has been heavily burdened with artificial product segmentation in both the Intel and AMD camps. (eg, locked multipliers for Intel and low amounts of CUs enabled for AMD APU dual cores.)
 
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monstercameron said:
Dont want to go off topic but...Intel Only did this to quell the rage of the very small group this applies to.
Click to expand...

Yup, Intel isn't going to start unlocking cpu's. They are going to make you pay a premium to overclock your cpu. They are after margins. They want to keep them high. You want a high end four or 6 core cpu? You are going to pay for it. The Pentium is just a bone. And a very small one at that.
 
chrisjames61 said:
Yup, Intel isn't going to start unlocking cpu's. They are going to make you pay a premium to overclock your cpu. They are after margins. They want to keep them high. You want a high end four or 6 core cpu? You are going to pay for it. The Pentium is just a bone. And a very small one at that.
Click to expand...

I recognize the fact Intel has focusing on the upsell (AMD appears to be doing this also).

But once the market has been saturated with Core i5 Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge/Haswell, the gains will need to come elsewhere.
 
cbn said:
The biggest problem (I see) is the cost of the motherboard and thus I have to wonder what Intel's permanent solution will be to matching low cost platform for future overclocking dual cores?
Click to expand...

^^^ This... the unlocked Pentium requires cooperation with the mobo manufacturers to get a budget board out there that can utilize the unlocked CPU. I think it's sort of a dead-end. Having just built two budget systems with G3220's, I'll agree that the new Pentiums are solid chips and an unlocked one even better, especially at that price point; but I just don't see the logic in it profitability-wise by either Intel or the mobo makers, who are having to go out on a limb with a very specialized board in what will be a very competitive and very limited market segment.
 
It seems many people here are quick to forget the Z75 chipset. Absolutely fantastic value. Got a very solid Asrock Z75 board for $66, overclocks just like Z77 for air cooled overclocks. I can see them releasing a z85/z95 or something along those lines again
 
Here is the listing for the Z97M Anniversary:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z97M Anniversary/

Z97M%20Anniversary(m).jpg


Z97M%20Anniversary(m).jpg


We don't have a price yet, but I am hoping it will be a good deal cheaper than the $99.99 Asrock Z97M Pro4 due to the sparse features (eg, 3 phase VRMs with no heatsink, etc.)

Of course, with a processor like Pentium 3258 the cheaper the better. Hopefully Intel takes further steps to lower price even more (such as the Z95 chipset idea mentioned in post#19 by Headfoot)
 
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Nexxus lists the price at 114.00. Dont know if that is a real selling price or some kind of estimate. Could not find a price on Newegg or amazon. As I said before, and as other posters have said, I see the motherboard prices as a big impediment to this chip. Unless you play almost exclusively a lightly threaded game or app, I still would go with an i3 and the cheapest motherboard I could find. Hyperthreading makes a big difference in these dual cores.
 
frozentundra123456 said:
Nexxus lists the price at 114.00. Dont know if that is a real selling price or some kind of estimate. Could not find a price on Newegg or amazon. As I said before, and as other posters have said, I see the motherboard prices as a big impediment to this chip. Unless you play almost exclusively a lightly threaded game or app, I still would go with an i3 and the cheapest motherboard I could find. Hyperthreading makes a big difference in these dual cores.
Click to expand...

Yes, to compete with Core i3 and H81 the Pentium 3258 motherboard needs to be cheap if cpu performance is the most sought after metric.

So Maybe Z95 or Z80?

Z80= H81 with some features disabled, but unlocked multiplier OC enabled. (Z80 could be a straight drop in to any existing H81 motherboard SKU provided any features on the existing H81 board not supported by Z80 are removed. Eg, SATA ports, Rear I/O, etc.)
 
cbn said:
Yes, to compete with Core i3 and H81 the Pentium 3258 motherboard needs to be cheap if cpu performance is the most sought after metric.
Click to expand...

+1. Without cheapy mobo options this is a non-starter. Microcenter is doing a Z97 with a 3258 for $99.- but they are outliers.
 
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