What will happen

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Meuge
You people are out of your minds. This just shows how much you know about geopolitics.

Neither EU, nor China, nor Russia, have an interest in Iran that is so great, as to go to war with the US. The very concept is insane.

Oil? the 80billion dollar deal China just sighned with Iran? or maybe the pipeline they are building.....

The superpowers will never fight each other. Simple as that. Actually, bombing the ****** out of the Iranian reactor and paying China the $80B would be a bargain.

They can't have nuclear weapons... it's that simple. If they really wanted nuclear fuel for civilian purposes of generating power, they'd agree to the Russian proposal of having the enrichment done there.

$80B is what, $266/person in the US... heck, I'll pay my share, and one of 4 more people to see that reactor go up. Then I'd gladly pay as much to get the Iranians their enriched uranium from Russia.

They're free to have nuclear power... just not a breeder reactor.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Meuge
You people are out of your minds. This just shows how much you know about geopolitics.

Neither EU, nor China, nor Russia, have an interest in Iran that is so great, as to go to war with the US. The very concept is insane.

Oil? the 80billion dollar deal China just sighned with Iran? or maybe the pipeline they are building.....

And how will they project their power? Walk to Iran?

Use Russian cargo carriers? They have the money to more or less do what they want.

Yes, because Russia really wants to pick a side....And the losing one at that.

No chance. Simply wont happen. Russia is crude, their not dumb.

What exactly does Russia have to lose? They have deals for oil, and with Iran, they control most of the natural gas to the EU, they sell military equipment to China, the US can ill afford to attack Russia+Iran+China+Iraq+Syria. So China buys some russian cargo planes, which it in turn uses to ship bought military equipment to Iran. More than likely I see this playing out the way all third world wars use to play out, super powers take a side (US backs Israel, China backs Iran) and than begins shipping weapons ect to them, logistics ect. China needs this oil, Iran wants to give China this oil, China is making major investments in Iran right now, and could see a strike by the US directly as a move against there financial well being (IE cutting off there oil). Which is why Israel vs Iran seems to make more sense for all parties involved.

 

[Aimster]

I think there is a lot of assumptions and la-la-land crap going on in this thread.

*Iran has the ability to strike U.S forces in Iran/Afghanistan which will be pretty deadly. The only way to stop an Iranian attack on U.S forces in Iraq/Afghanistan is to invade Iran. The U.S is not going to send in bombers to bomb entire Iranian cities. We are not Russia. Russia was barbaric and is probably still barbaric. Look at Chechnya and Afghanistan.

*Iran has the ability to strike Israel with their Shab-3 Missiles. I don't think they work. You can see if I am right if the time ever comes
-However, Iran does control Hezbollah. Hezbollah has a lot of ammo that they can fire at Israel. This will force Israel to invade Lebanon. This might bring Syria into the picture
- The situation with Egypt is not good. The regime in Egypt is close to collapse and an Israel-Arab conflict can hurt Egypt?s regime even more.

*Iran?s navy is weak by modern standards, but when you look at the Persian Gulf and the amount of resources Iran?s navy has they can practically shut down the Persian Gulf. It could take weeks/months to clear up all the mines and destroy the entire mini ship fleet Iran has which could attack oil tankers. 40% of the world oil goes thru the Persian Gulf on a daily basis . The waters of the Persian Gulf are not deep and this makes it very problematic.

Israel does not have the capacity to bomb Iran on a daily basis. Israel will not be the ones to bomb Iran because they simply cannot. Their air force might be pretty good, but it is not great. Great is the U.S air force which has the ability and the planes needed to penetrate Iranian airspace undetected and to finish the job all in one strike.

If Israel attacks Iran, it will be with the help of the U.S.

Iran is known to have the upgraded S-300 air defense systems as well as many other advanced air defense systems. Iran might even have the S-400 (probably not until later). Most of the advanced air-defense systems Iran just purchased will not be delivered until mid-2006.

China/Russia is not going to go to war with the U.S. However, If the U.S invades Iran the Chinese will see that the U.S is using 90% of their military for the Iranian conflict and could just threaten Taiwan.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: RichardE
What exactly does Russia have to lose? They have deals for oil, and with Iran, they control most of the natural gas to the EU, they sell military equipment to China, the US can ill afford to attack Russia+Iran+China+Iraq+Syria. So China buys some russian cargo planes, which it in turn uses to ship bought military equipment to Iran. More than likely I see this playing out the way all third world wars use to play out, super powers take a side (US backs Israel, China backs Iran) and than begins shipping weapons ect to them, logistics ect. China needs this oil, Iran wants to give China this oil, China is making major investments in Iran right now, and could see a strike by the US directly as a move against there financial well being (IE cutting off there oil). Which is why Israel vs Iran seems to make more sense for all parties involved.

So Russia does what it always does and just sells arms, and China ends up going it alone. End result, China loses, we kick the balls off Iran and are set up perfectly to occupy Iran as well.

If iran is smart they will simply bow to political pressure and do what they need to do to keep everyone happy while still pursueing their own goals. Its all and good to try and bluff America. Its when she calls your bluff you have problems.

This is not saying America will or will not act. But simply put, there is no military on Earth that can stand toe to toe to the United States in a nuetral theater, and in a theater where we already have an established presence (Middle East) it would be nothing more the suicide.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: RichardE
What exactly does Russia have to lose? They have deals for oil, and with Iran, they control most of the natural gas to the EU, they sell military equipment to China, the US can ill afford to attack Russia+Iran+China+Iraq+Syria. So China buys some russian cargo planes, which it in turn uses to ship bought military equipment to Iran. More than likely I see this playing out the way all third world wars use to play out, super powers take a side (US backs Israel, China backs Iran) and than begins shipping weapons ect to them, logistics ect. China needs this oil, Iran wants to give China this oil, China is making major investments in Iran right now, and could see a strike by the US directly as a move against there financial well being (IE cutting off there oil). Which is why Israel vs Iran seems to make more sense for all parties involved.

So Russia does what it always does and just sells arms, and China ends up going it alone. End result, China loses, we kick the balls off Iran and are set up perfectly to occupy Iran as well.

If iran is smart they will simply bow to political pressure and do what they need to do to keep everyone happy while still pursueing their own goals. Its all and good to try and bluff America. Its when she calls your bluff you have problems.

This is not saying America will or will not act. But simply put, there is no military on Earth that can stand toe to toe to the United States in a nuetral theater, and in a theater where we already have an established presence (Middle East) it would be nothing more the suicide.

In order for the U.S to occupy Iran, they will need close to 1,000,000 troops.

Where is the U.S going to get 1,000,000 troops?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: RichardE
What exactly does Russia have to lose? They have deals for oil, and with Iran, they control most of the natural gas to the EU, they sell military equipment to China, the US can ill afford to attack Russia+Iran+China+Iraq+Syria. So China buys some russian cargo planes, which it in turn uses to ship bought military equipment to Iran. More than likely I see this playing out the way all third world wars use to play out, super powers take a side (US backs Israel, China backs Iran) and than begins shipping weapons ect to them, logistics ect. China needs this oil, Iran wants to give China this oil, China is making major investments in Iran right now, and could see a strike by the US directly as a move against there financial well being (IE cutting off there oil). Which is why Israel vs Iran seems to make more sense for all parties involved.

So Russia does what it always does and just sells arms, and China ends up going it alone. End result, China loses, we kick the balls off Iran and are set up perfectly to occupy Iran as well.

If iran is smart they will simply bow to political pressure and do what they need to do to keep everyone happy while still pursueing their own goals. Its all and good to try and bluff America. Its when she calls your bluff you have problems.

This is not saying America will or will not act. But simply put, there is no military on Earth that can stand toe to toe to the United States in a nuetral theater, and in a theater where we already have an established presence (Middle East) it would be nothing more the suicide.

China would just be selling arms as well. I agree it would be smarter for Iran to bow to national pressure, but it is almost becomming a sort of pride thing for Iran now, they are the ones standing up to the evil America and Zionists. I don't think the US can invade, the american public can barely handle the 2000 casualties we have seen already, let alone the number we will see in Iran. The only way for the administration to get public approval for this war is if Iran lobied a missile at the US, which they cannot do. Without the public approval this will probally become a Israelvs Iran war. though in all truth, hopefully it will happen as you said with Iran bowing to pressure, maybe pulling a deal out of it with the EU and going on from there.

Another note, is the fact Iran wants to set up there own oil exchange which would trade in EU instead of dollars, this could be another backtheatre tipping point that would not make the news.

 

[Meuge]

Don't underestimate the Israeli military - the Russian Defense Minister said, after his visit to Israel, that he isn't sure why any of the Arab states threaten Israel, given that in his judgement, the Israeli military could wage a successful conventional war against all of them at once if need be... and win.

Aside from that, Aimster, that's actually a very good analysis.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: RichardE
What exactly does Russia have to lose? They have deals for oil, and with Iran, they control most of the natural gas to the EU, they sell military equipment to China, the US can ill afford to attack Russia+Iran+China+Iraq+Syria. So China buys some russian cargo planes, which it in turn uses to ship bought military equipment to Iran. More than likely I see this playing out the way all third world wars use to play out, super powers take a side (US backs Israel, China backs Iran) and than begins shipping weapons ect to them, logistics ect. China needs this oil, Iran wants to give China this oil, China is making major investments in Iran right now, and could see a strike by the US directly as a move against there financial well being (IE cutting off there oil). Which is why Israel vs Iran seems to make more sense for all parties involved.

So Russia does what it always does and just sells arms, and China ends up going it alone. End result, China loses, we kick the balls off Iran and are set up perfectly to occupy Iran as well.

If iran is smart they will simply bow to political pressure and do what they need to do to keep everyone happy while still pursueing their own goals. Its all and good to try and bluff America. Its when she calls your bluff you have problems.

This is not saying America will or will not act. But simply put, there is no military on Earth that can stand toe to toe to the United States in a nuetral theater, and in a theater where we already have an established presence (Middle East) it would be nothing more the suicide.

In order for the U.S to occupy Iran, they will need close to 1,000,000 troops.

Where is the U.S going to get 1,000,000 troops?

Why do they need a million troops? I suppose it depends how you classify occupy.

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: Meuge
Don't underestimate the Israeli military - the Russian Defense Minister said, after his visit to Israel, that he isn't sure why any of the Arab states threaten Israel, given that in his judgement, the Israeli military could wage a successful conventional war against all of them at once if need be... and win.

Aside from that, Aimster, that's actually a very good analysis.

Ya your absolutley right I agree % 100 , then after all of that is said and done WTF does Israel need 200+ nuclear warheads ??

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: RichardE
What exactly does Russia have to lose? They have deals for oil, and with Iran, they control most of the natural gas to the EU, they sell military equipment to China, the US can ill afford to attack Russia+Iran+China+Iraq+Syria. So China buys some russian cargo planes, which it in turn uses to ship bought military equipment to Iran. More than likely I see this playing out the way all third world wars use to play out, super powers take a side (US backs Israel, China backs Iran) and than begins shipping weapons ect to them, logistics ect. China needs this oil, Iran wants to give China this oil, China is making major investments in Iran right now, and could see a strike by the US directly as a move against there financial well being (IE cutting off there oil). Which is why Israel vs Iran seems to make more sense for all parties involved.

So Russia does what it always does and just sells arms, and China ends up going it alone. End result, China loses, we kick the balls off Iran and are set up perfectly to occupy Iran as well.

If iran is smart they will simply bow to political pressure and do what they need to do to keep everyone happy while still pursueing their own goals. Its all and good to try and bluff America. Its when she calls your bluff you have problems.

This is not saying America will or will not act. But simply put, there is no military on Earth that can stand toe to toe to the United States in a nuetral theater, and in a theater where we already have an established presence (Middle East) it would be nothing more the suicide.

In order for the U.S to occupy Iran, they will need close to 1,000,000 troops.

Where is the U.S going to get 1,000,000 troops?

Why do they need a million troops? I suppose it depends how you classify occupy.

To destroy Iran's military and capabilities you will need to take control of the country. If this is not done the only other option is to bomb Iran on a daily basis, but Iran will just bomb the U.S forces in Iraq on a daily basis.

The only way to stop these kinds of attacks is to invade Iran.

Iran is much larger than Iraq with a population much larger.

Iraq was easy because nobody wanted Saddam in power (60% were oppressed Shiites and another large percent were Kurds). Iraq also had no military capability to defend their country. It was all destroyed during the Gulf War by a 40-nation coalition force lead by the U.S.

The U.S has the means to destroy Iran in one day. However, the U.S doesn't go around killing millions of civilians to win wars.. but some in here might like you to believe so.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: Meuge
Don't underestimate the Israeli military - the Russian Defense Minister said, after his visit to Israel, that he isn't sure why any of the Arab states threaten Israel, given that in his judgement, the Israeli military could wage a successful conventional war against all of them at once if need be... and win.

Aside from that, Aimster, that's actually a very good analysis.

Ya your absolutley right I agree % 100 , then after all of that is said and done WTF does Israel need 200+ nuclear warheads ??

So that if it is attacked with chemical or biological weapons it can strike back. They are weapons of desperation.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Aimster
To destroy Iran's military and capabilities you will need to take control of the country. If this is not done the only other option is to bomb Iran on a daily basis, but Iran will just bomb the U.S forces in Iraq on a daily basis.

The only way to stop these kinds of attacks is to invade Iran.

Iran is much larger than Iraq with a population much larger.

Iraq was easy because nobody wanted Saddam in power (60% were oppressed Shiites and another large percent were Kurds). Iraq also had no military capability to defend their country. It was all destroyed during the Gulf War by a 40-nation coalition force lead by the U.S.

The U.S has the means to destroy Iran in one day. However, the U.S doesn't go around killing millions of civilians to win wars.. but some in here might like you to believe so.

Destroying their military would be easy. Theres no military in the Middle East we wouldnt sweep out of the way. Now, insurgencies are another matter.
And how would Iran bomb us? You need a military to do that.......Unless they are going to put the bombs in backpacks.

As for killing millions of civilians to win wars.....
Tell Joe Public he either has to drastically change his way of life (Read: Turn your heat OFF, give up your car and ride a bike) or we have to kick some serious ass in Iran....All of iran....

What do you think the decision will be? I see very few Americans ready to do anything more then pay lip service to no oil dependence.....

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Aimster
To destroy Iran's military and capabilities you will need to take control of the country. If this is not done the only other option is to bomb Iran on a daily basis, but Iran will just bomb the U.S forces in Iraq on a daily basis.

The only way to stop these kinds of attacks is to invade Iran.

Iran is much larger than Iraq with a population much larger.

Iraq was easy because nobody wanted Saddam in power (60% were oppressed Shiites and another large percent were Kurds). Iraq also had no military capability to defend their country. It was all destroyed during the Gulf War by a 40-nation coalition force lead by the U.S.

The U.S has the means to destroy Iran in one day. However, the U.S doesn't go around killing millions of civilians to win wars.. but some in here might like you to believe so.

Destroying their military would be easy. Theres no military in the Middle East we wouldnt sweep out of the way. Now, insurgencies are another matter.
And how would Iran bomb us? You need a military to do that.......Unless they are going to put the bombs in backpacks.

As for killing millions of civilians to win wars.....
Tell Joe Public he either has to drastically change his way of life (Read: Turn your heat OFF, give up your car and ride a bike) or we have to kick some serious ass in Iran....All of iran....

What do you think the decision will be? I see very few Americans ready to do anything more then pay lip service to no oil dependence.....

We don't need Iranian oil... nor does it constitute a large percentage of our oil imports.

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: Meuge
Don't underestimate the Israeli military - the Russian Defense Minister said, after his visit to Israel, that he isn't sure why any of the Arab states threaten Israel, given that in his judgement, the Israeli military could wage a successful conventional war against all of them at once if need be... and win.

Aside from that, Aimster, that's actually a very good analysis.

Ya your absolutley right I agree % 100 , then after all of that is said and done WTF does Israel need 200+ nuclear warheads ??

So that if it is attacked with chemical or biological weapons it can strike back. They are weapons of desperation.

So Israel has those just in case, OK gotcha!!
So why can't Iran be allowed to produce nuclear energy while Israel has the right to have weapons" just in case the Aliens from Venus arrive" ?

And on top of that Israel will want to have the right to prevent another country from creating their own nuclear energy by just bombing the hell out of them ?? And prolly initiating WWIII

I think Iran is the one that should be "in desparation" with such types of double standards in existance :disgust:

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Meuge
We don't need Iranian oil... nor does it constitute a large percentage of our oil imports.

Now your thinking in terms of ownership.
Think in terms of a global market.

Its simple suply and demand. Those countries who supply supply on a world scale. Those who demand, likewise. While WE may not need Iranian oil, the world does. If Iran stops oil production, then the world supply has fallen. Where will those countries who were depending on Iranian oil get their oil from? The world suppliers. This decreases supply and increases demand which causes price spikes.

So yes, we do NEED Iranian oil. While it may not fill our tanks, it does fill the worlds tanks. Anf those two are very much related.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: Meuge
Don't underestimate the Israeli military - the Russian Defense Minister said, after his visit to Israel, that he isn't sure why any of the Arab states threaten Israel, given that in his judgement, the Israeli military could wage a successful conventional war against all of them at once if need be... and win.

Aside from that, Aimster, that's actually a very good analysis.

Ya your absolutley right I agree % 100 , then after all of that is said and done WTF does Israel need 200+ nuclear warheads ??

So that if it is attacked with chemical or biological weapons it can strike back. They are weapons of desperation.

So why can't Iran be allowed to produce nuclear energy while Israel has the right to have weapons" just in case the Aliens from Venus arrive" ?

And on top of that Israel will want to have the right to prevent another country from creating their own nuclear energy by just bombing the hell out of them ??
I think Iran is the one that should be "in desparation" with such types of double standards :disgust:

Good job ignoring my post, as well as all available evidence. If Iran needs fuel for a powerplant, it can take Russia up on its offer of enriched fuel. Actually, that would allow them to build a powerplant 5-10 years earlier.

The want to make weapons, which they'll simply have to live without.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Meuge
We don't need Iranian oil... nor does it constitute a large percentage of our oil imports.

Now your thinking in terms of ownership.
Think in terms of a global market.

Its simple suply and demand. Those countries who supply supply on a world scale. Those who demand, likewise. While WE may not need Iranian oil, the world does. If Iran stops oil production, then the world supply has fallen. Where will those countries who were depending on Iranian oil get their oil from? The world suppliers. This decreases supply and increases demand which causes price spikes.

So yes, we do NEED Iranian oil. While it may not fill our tanks, it does fill the worlds tanks. Anf those two are very much related.

Frankly, I think that if we had invested $100B into a few dozen fission reactors, and the remaining $300B into fusion research, we'd be a hell of a lot closer to defeating the Middle East extremists than we are now.

 

[tommywishbone]

We can not invade or attack Iran. They have stood by and watched our invasion & occupation of Iraq for the last three years. They have our playbook. Remember the Brady Bunch episode where Jan stole Greg's playbook and gave it to the other school? Same thing. Except this time there is no Sam-the-butcher or Alice-the-maid to break up the fight.

The price of oil would reach $100 a barrel within 72 hrs of any US military action. And the fury with which they would fight would make the current debacle in Iraq look like the fight between Bobby Brady and the kid who teased Cindy Brady because of her speech impediment.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Aimster
To destroy Iran's military and capabilities you will need to take control of the country. If this is not done the only other option is to bomb Iran on a daily basis, but Iran will just bomb the U.S forces in Iraq on a daily basis.

The only way to stop these kinds of attacks is to invade Iran.

Iran is much larger than Iraq with a population much larger.

Iraq was easy because nobody wanted Saddam in power (60% were oppressed Shiites and another large percent were Kurds). Iraq also had no military capability to defend their country. It was all destroyed during the Gulf War by a 40-nation coalition force lead by the U.S.

The U.S has the means to destroy Iran in one day. However, the U.S doesn't go around killing millions of civilians to win wars.. but some in here might like you to believe so.

Destroying their military would be easy. Theres no military in the Middle East we wouldnt sweep out of the way. Now, insurgencies are another matter.
And how would Iran bomb us? You need a military to do that.......Unless they are going to put the bombs in backpacks.

As for killing millions of civilians to win wars.....
Tell Joe Public he either has to drastically change his way of life (Read: Turn your heat OFF, give up your car and ride a bike) or we have to kick some serious ass in Iran....All of iran....

What do you think the decision will be? I see very few Americans ready to do anything more then pay lip service to no oil dependence.....

The same way North Korea would bomb South Korea in a war. They have enough artillery/missiles to level Seoul. That is why the U.S didn?t invade North Korea.

You do not need tanks/jets to attack U.S forces in the region.

Iran has thousands of missiles capable of hitting Iraq. They demonstrated they are capable of hitting deep inside Iraq a few years ago by launching hundreds of missiles at an MEK base inside Iraq.

Finding out the location of thousands of missiles and thousands if not millions of rounds of artillery is an impossible task.

To give you an idea of how large Iran is:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_middle_east/iran_area.jpg

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Frankly, I think that if we had invested $100B into a few dozen fission reactors, and the remaining $300B into fusion research, we'd be a hell of a lot closer to defeating the Middle East extremists than we are now.

Dont forget tax incentives to owning high efficiency vehicles and tax incentives to high efficency homes and solar panels.

But yes, your logic is sound.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
We can not invade or attack Iran. They have stood by and watched our invasion & occupation of Iraq for the last three years. They have our playbook. Remember the Brady Bunch episode where Jan stole Greg's playbook and gave it to the other school? Same thing. Except this time there is no Sam-the-butcher or Alice-the-maid to break up the fight.

The price of oil would reach $100 a barrel within 72 hrs of any US military action. And the fury with which they would fight would make the current debacle in Iraq look like the fight between Bobby Brady and the kid who teased Cindy Brady because of her speech impediment.

You can give a grade school football team an NFL teams playbook, but if they meet on the field the NFL team will still completely dominate the game.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Aimster

The same way North Korea would bomb South Korea in a war. They have enough artillery/missiles to level Seoul. That is why the U.S didn?t invade North Korea.

You do not need tanks/jets to attack U.S forces in the region.

Iran has thousands of missiles capable of hitting Iraq. They demonstrated they are capable of hitting deep inside Iraq a few years ago by launching hundreds of missiles at an MEK base inside Iraq.

Finding out the location of thousands of missiles and thousands if not millions of rounds of artillery is an impossible task.

To give you an idea of how large Iran is:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_middle_east/iran_area.jpg

N Korea/S Korea is a whole different argument. The US has complete control of the air in the Middle East. Anything even remotely looking like a wepaon will get a missle up its ass before the ground crews can say RUN!
Thats the advantage of having a high tech army. Up to date satellite imagery, round the clock air patrols, high speed mechanized forces....Iran wouldnt satnd a snowballs chance in hell in a war unless they went underground. Look how well Saddams army faired against America, you think Iran go do any better? No. Our troops were "green" when we hit Iraq. If we go to war with Iran, we do it with complete air supremecy, established ground bases and combat hardened troops.

Irans ONLY chance is to go underground, just like Saddam did. At that point we would very well lose the war in the sense of not overthrowing them politically, but we could still move in to established critical oil infrastructure to secure it.

It really just depends why we're going.
Are we simply stopping the nuke projects? Thats a simple in out love.
Are we securing the oil infrastructure? Doable, but logistically much more difficult.
Are we overthrowing the government? Practically impossible.

 

[Meuge]

Speaking of solar panels, I tried to get a set of roof panels for my house which has a very sunny roof, but I couldn't, since most of the new-type high-efficiency panels are sold out 3-4 years ahead. Many homes with the new 25% panels can produce 60-70% of their electric needs. Incredible.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: Meuge
Don't underestimate the Israeli military - the Russian Defense Minister said, after his visit to Israel, that he isn't sure why any of the Arab states threaten Israel, given that in his judgement, the Israeli military could wage a successful conventional war against all of them at once if need be... and win.

Aside from that, Aimster, that's actually a very good analysis.

Ya your absolutley right I agree % 100 , then after all of that is said and done WTF does Israel need 200+ nuclear warheads ??

So that if it is attacked with chemical or biological weapons it can strike back. They are weapons of desperation.

So Israel has those just in case, OK gotcha!!
So why can't Iran be allowed to produce nuclear energy while Israel has the right to have weapons" just in case the Aliens from Venus arrive" ?

And on top of that Israel will want to have the right to prevent another country from creating their own nuclear energy by just bombing the hell out of them ?? And prolly initiating WWIII

I think Iran is the one that should be "in desparation" with such types of double standards in existance :disgust:

Iran was on track to have the world's 2nd best military (after the U.S) during the Shah regime. In fact they were on track to develop nuclear reactors and possibly even have the bomb today. Nobody was going to stop them. Iran was the U.S's puppet in the region. If you look at how much they actually spent on their military you would be surprised. The F-16's Israel has were actually meant for Iran. Iran also purchased 3 additional destroyers from Britain. None of those ever arrived because the Shah's regime collapsed.

The bottom line is Israel today is what Iran was.

I doubt Israel can purchase whatever weapons they want today. Iran had the option to purchase anything they wanted back then (except nuclear weapons).

Iran had their chance.. when the regime collapsed it changed everything. The U.S was shocked and since that day the U.S is being very careful not to trust anyone.

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: Meuge
Don't underestimate the Israeli military - the Russian Defense Minister said, after his visit to Israel, that he isn't sure why any of the Arab states threaten Israel, given that in his judgement, the Israeli military could wage a successful conventional war against all of them at once if need be... and win.

Aside from that, Aimster, that's actually a very good analysis.

Ya your absolutley right I agree % 100 , then after all of that is said and done WTF does Israel need 200+ nuclear warheads ??

So that if it is attacked with chemical or biological weapons it can strike back. They are weapons of desperation.

So why can't Iran be allowed to produce nuclear energy while Israel has the right to have weapons" just in case the Aliens from Venus arrive" ?

And on top of that Israel will want to have the right to prevent another country from creating their own nuclear energy by just bombing the hell out of them ??
I think Iran is the one that should be "in desparation" with such types of double standards :disgust:

Good job ignoring my post, as well as all available evidence. If Iran needs fuel for a powerplant, it can take Russia up on its offer of enriched fuel. Actually, that would allow them to build a powerplant 5-10 years earlier.

The want to make weapons, which they'll simply have to live without.

OK two problems there.
1- Why should they depend on Russia if the ycan do it themselves ? As you see they are trying to porgress and want to be as much self sufficient as possible, they want to rid themselves of as much western interference as possible.
2- Still doesn't answer the question, if Israel is capable of handling any threat via conventional ways, WTF does it have the right to own nuclear war heads ?