What were the best Core 2 duo/quad SFF (slim) desktops?

[cbn]

What were the best Core 2 duo/quad SFF (slim) desktops capable of taking a video card?

Ideally, the machine would be able to handle a low profile video card with a dual slot tall cooler. However, if the best machines of that era were only able to install a low profile single slot card with single slot tall cooler, that is fine with me also.

Criteria for rating the machine as "best" would be things like noise, durability, repairability, etc.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Uhm, at this point in their lifetime, I wouldn't really be looking for "best", I would be looking for "cheapest".

I've purchased DX7400 and DC5800 HP/Compaq SFF desktops, they have PCI-E slots, but I don't know how many slot-widths they will take for video cards. I no longer have the DX7400 units to check, though Newegg should have pictures.

 

[cbn]

Uhm, at this point in their lifetime, I wouldn't really be looking for "best", I would be looking for "cheapest".

Definitely cost is a major factor, but so far (at least from my limited vantage point) it looks like they are all very cheap.

I've purchased DX7400 and DC5800 HP/Compaq SFF desktops, they have PCI-E slots, but I don't know how many slot-widths they will take for video cards. I no longer have the DX7400 units to check, though Newegg should have pictures.

Do you remember if there were any significant noise differences between the two? Quiet enough for use in the living room?

P.S. I noticed the DX7400 uses a TFX PSU (standardized form factor) while the DC5800 uses a custom form factor PSU. That is something that might factor for repairability.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Do you remember if there were any significant noise differences between the two? Quiet enough for use in the living room?

The fans on the DX7400 were old and noisy. Especially loud when they first spin up, then they get quieter, but not quiet.

If you want quiet, get AM1, or a fanless Bay Trail ITX board.

 

[cbn]

The fans on the DX7400 were old and noisy. Especially loud when they first spin up, then they get quieter, but not quiet.

If you want quiet, get AM1, or a fanless Bay Trail ITX board.

Do you have a differing opinion on the DC5800?

According to these pics the cooling doesn't look too bad with a 92 mm intake fan (with shroud and 4 pin power connection) and the custom form factor PSU with 19 amps on the 12v rail (shown below) looks like it also has a fairly large fan (with some of the air bypassing the PSU internals):

Maybe a new intake fan could quiet the computer down if necessary. (Not sure what to say about that custom form factor PSU other than it looks like it functions partially as a pure exhaust fan with only part of the airflow actually going thru the psu itself. I wonder if its fan is also replaceable?)

P.S. Judging by the PCI-E x16 slot this PC will only take a low profile single slot card video card (with a low profile single slot cooler). It should be able to take a dual slot low profile video card.

 

[cbn]

Found out the DC5800 uses a 92mm fan for the PSU.

According to the following document HP decided to deviate from the 80mm spec for CFX12v due to thermals and acoustics:

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02076124.pdf

the CFX12V standard power supply did not meet the product
quality and reliability goals for HP products. The CFX12V power dimensions
constrain the integrated fan to 80mm. HP found the 80mm fan failed to meet
thermal and acoustic performance requirements set for its business PC platforms, so
the power supply dimensions were increased to allow a 92mm fan. This action
effectively broke away from the ATX12V standard.

P.S. I would imagine if the thermals and acoustics are decent enough a person should be able to use some type of low profile video card in the last expansion bay. In order to help the hot air escape, the DC5800 should probably be positioned standing up:

(But maybe those vents adjacent to the first expansion bay are enough to even allow a horizontal orientation with a video card as well?)

 

[cbn]

Deleted.

 

[cbn]

Some Newegg reviews on the various refurb DC5800s:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo

Noteable points:

-will take a second 3.5" HDD
-the motherboards have four SATA ports
-four RAM slots
-One person mentioned they only paid $79.99 free shipping (This model happens to be a E2180, 2GB, 80GB, Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit version)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...03&ignorebbr=1

Noteable points:

-two of the four reviewers wrote the machine was quiet
-Apparently these machines come with DVD-ROM optical drives, not DVD burners
-COA is mentioned (I have since learned there are various versions of this including what is known as a refurb COA.)
-wifi is not included

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...78&ignorebbr=1

Noteable points:

-"Loaded Ubuntu 12.04 studio...Flawless" (I'm guessing this just means Ubuntu supports the hardware out of the box, which is good because I plan on running Ubuntu/Mint on mine and maybe SteamOS at a later point)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...78&ignorebbr=1

Noteable points:

-BSOD was mentioned.
-Hard drive failure was mentioned. This doesn't surprise me as these are pretty old machines.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Some Newegg reviews on the various refurb DC5800s:

-One person mentioned they only paid $79.99 free shipping (This model happens to be a E2180, 2GB, 80GB, Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit version)

I think that's the specs on the one I bought, but it has (I think, haven't booted it yet) Win7 HP 64-bit. I paid $90 + $5 shipping.

I think a C2D with 2GB RAM and Win7 legit for under $100 is a decent deal regardless, as long as it works.

The systems sold by "Joy Systems" come with a 1-year warranty, but the one I got was not from them, and only has a 90-day warranty.

 

[cbn]

I think a C2D with 2GB RAM and Win7 legit for under $100 is a decent deal regardless, as long as it works.

I agree, although I am concerned about the recovery image being on a 7 year old hard disk. (I would hope at least some refurbishers would include recovery media (or make recovery media available for a small fee) instead of just having a recovery partition on such a potentially old hard drive). According to this Microsoft document I would not be allowed to make a recovery disk due to copyright infringement.

Anyway, with that mentioned I am also looking at the pricing of DC5800 units on ebay and Craigslist. Going this route it appears a person can get better specs for less money provided no OS is involved. In some cases I have seen DC5800s for around $50 shipped with E6550/2GB/80GB HDD. Throw in a XFX GT 620 low profile card (that I bought for $20 AR--> http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36805596&postcount=27) and a TP link Wifi adapter that was FAR + shipping--> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2403900 and now I have a potential Linux steam box for around $75.

$75 is pretty exciting to me because that is less than an ARM set-top box and this DC5800 is supposedly quiet.

It also doesn't look half bad for a living room computer:

 

[cbn]

I contacted Joy Systems and inquired whether or not a recovery disc was included with their Windows 7 refurbished desktops.

They mentioned a recovery disc was not included in the box, but they could send one out to me if I purchased a desktop.

Currently they have the following HP DC5800 on Newegg priced at $109.00 free shipping (sale ends 10/27/2014):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883280003

2.8 Ghz Core 2 duo (I am assuming it is a E7400), 2 GB RAM, 160 GB HDD, 1 year warranty.

P.S. While doing some research on Joy Systems and Recovery disc, it appears to me that at one time in 2013 all their refurbished systems included the recovery disc in the box.

 

[Denly]

Go for HP 6000/6005 for slightly more, they take DDR3, 2x PCIE 1x, 1x PCIE 16x, Will take 2nd HD, 4 SATA slot and 4 dimm slot. I use a 6005 SFF PII x4 with 2 SSD and 1 HD no issue.

if noise is an issue Dell 7xx(prefer 780) is quieter but usually cost more.

Starting 2014 MS stop shipping out disc with refurb lic, you will have to create a backup disc/ISO yourself.

If you need a hook up on deals, send me a PM.

 

[cbn]

Go for HP 6000/6005 for slightly more, they take DDR3, 2x PCIE 1x, 1x PCIE 16x, Will take 2nd HD, 4 SATA slot and 4 dimm slot. I use a 6005 SFF PII x4 with 2 SSD and 1 HD no issue.

Thanks for the heads up on these HPs that take DDR3. (HP 6000 is Core 2 plus DDR3 and HP 6005 is AMD Athlon II or Phenom II, which also uses DDR3)

I'm still looking at pictures of their layouts, but so far they look very similar (almost functionally identical) the DC5800. About the only difference I notice so far is the location of the PCI-e x16 slot, but this should not have any effect on the installation of a dual slot low profile video card.

if noise is an issue Dell 7xx(prefer 780) is quieter but usually cost more.

Looks like the Dell Optiplex 780 comes in two SFF form factors that are able to take a low profile video card:

Definitely lots of ventilation holes in the back of both of them.

 

[cbn]

The LGA 771 to LGA 775 mod:

(Thank you d3teur for bringing this to my attention)

http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/

I'm still doing research, but the idea of dropping in a cheap Xeon quad core into one of these pre-builts seems very interesting. (and potentially adds a lot of bang for the buck)

If I can get this working eventually with a popular and low cost SFF pre-built (and the exact model was easy enough for a relative newcomer to set-up), I will definitely post gaming benchmark comparisons for whatever Xeon I am using vs. some modern budget processors.

So far here are some quad core Xeon processors that look like good deals for the low cost box I am envisioning:

E5440 (2.83 Ghz, 12 MB cache, 80 watt TDP) at $24
E5430 (2.67 Ghz, 12 MB cache, 80 watt TDP) at $19
L5420 (2.5 Ghz, 12 MB cache, 50 watt TDP) at $20
L5410 (2.33 Ghz, 12 MB cache, 50 watt TDP) at $15

 

[cbn]

Some passmark scores for comparison sake:

AMD Phenom II x4 965 (AM3 quad core): 4270 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=amd+phenom+ii+x4+965&id=370

E5440 (Xeon quad core): 3964 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5440+@+2.83GHz&id=1235

Athlon x4 740 (FM2 trinity based quad core): 3927 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+X4+740+Quad+Core&id=1789

E5430 (Xeon quad core) : 3907 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5430+@+2.66GHz&id=1234

L5420 (Xeon quad core): 3565 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+L5420+@+2.50GHz&id=1259

L5410 (Xeon quad core): 3458 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+L5410+@+2.33GHz&id=1706

Athlon II x4 640 (AM3 quad core): 3352 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+II+X4+640

Pentium G3220 (3 Ghz haswell dual core): 3190 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+G3220+@+3.00GHz&id=2020

A6-7400K (FM2+ Kaveri dual core) : 2972 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A6-7400K+Radeon+R5,+6+Compute+Cores+2C+4G&id=2392

Athlon 5350 (AM1 quad core SOC): 2604 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+5350+APU+with+Radeon+R3&id=2195

E8400 (Core 2 duo): 2164 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Duo+E8400+@+3.00GHz

A6-5400K (FM2 trinity dual core) : 2145 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A6-5400K+APU&id=1494

E7500 (Core 2 duo): 1881 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Duo+E7500+@+2.93GHz

E6600 (Core 2 duo): 1552 http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Duo+E6600+@+2.40GHz

E2180 (Core 2 duo): 1067 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+E2180+@+2.00GHz

 

[cbn]

With these scores (which represent multi-thread performance) noted, keep in mind not all casual, entry level, or older games are quad threaded. For example, the very popular Team fortress 2 (available on both Windows and Linux through Steam) only uses three threads.

 

[piasabird]

You cant tell the size of any of these computer without something sitting next to it like a Coke Can. They often picture them at an angle so you can tell the full length and width.

 

[cbn]

You cant tell the size of any of these computer without something sitting next to it like a Coke Can. They often picture them at an angle so you can tell the full length and width.

I couldn't find any comparison pictures (with can of coke, etc.)

But here is the spec sheet on the optiplex 780 with dimensions listed in the link:

http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/...en/Documents/optiplex_780_tech_spec_sheet.pdf

The two leftmost Optiplex 780 seen above have displacements of around 10 liters and 16 liters. (The 16 liter computer has three expansion bays and the 10 liter has two expansion bays)

P.S. There is also a Ultra compact SFF (called USFF by Dell). It is even smaller than the 10 liter SFF, but will not accept an expansion card.

 

[cbn]

This link lists the dimensions of the HP DC5800 SFF PC:

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/il/e...87-3328896-3328896-3658082-3978470.html?dnr=2

By my calculation the displacement works out to be 12.4 liters.

 

[sm625]

I have a DC5800 and it still sees regular use. I dont know if its the best but they must have sold a boatload of em back in the day cuz they are so cheap to buy now. lol.

 

[Denly]

Your idea of putting a Xeon in there looks interesting, but with the amount of work you might as well get a x4 or C2Q?

 

[Denly]

BTW do you know if Dell's 780 MB will support the Xeon? I have a 780 kicking around, maybe I can get it a try.

 

[Denly]

Also if you find good deal on SFF video card please share.

 

[cbn]

Your idea of putting a Xeon in there looks interesting, but with the amount of work you might as well get a x4 or C2Q?

The idea behind the Xeons is that they are much cheaper:

http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-775-cpus/

For example, a Q9550 starts at $60 buy it now on ebay compared to only $20 Buy it now for the E5440 (which is the Xeon equivalent of Q9550).

The Q9650 is even more expensive, starting at $100 Buy it now (the list says $80). The Xeon equivalent (E5450) is $35.

To those cheap Xeons you will need to add a LGA 771 to LGA 775 adapter which costs $2 or $3.

P.S. It looks like the X series Xeons are even cheaper than the E series Xeons, but I am not sure if any extra work is involved with those.

 

[cbn]

Also if you find good deal on SFF video card please share.

We have a running list of hot deals for entry level cards ($50 and under, after rebate) in this Anandtech thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2403091

(Many of the cards are low profile ones)