Dude, I graduated from Madison a few months ago. I used to do my studying in the law school library. I spent the best years of my life there. Amazing campus nestled between two lakes, beautiful city, great school. If I do well on the LSAT I'd like to go to NYU but I'm considering staying in Madtown.
A neighbor of mine went there. I only saw the NYU campus... I'm probably not hip enough to go there. I'll take a look at Columbia the next time I'm in New York.
Originally posted by: luvly
Congratulations, Orsorum!
I knew you would do well!
Are thought your result was to be posted tomorrow?
Have you finished your undergrad major? Or is this your last year?
Have you decided that law will be your next pursuit? If so, what school(s) have you considered?
Thanks!I thought they would get sent out tomorrow, but I got the email tonight. I was pleasantly surprised, as I had no genuine idea of what score I would be getting.
This is my third year in undergrad, I am planning on graduating this year. If I don't get into the schools I am looking at, then I will stay an extra year and do more research (either mathematics or economics) and an internship, in addition to doing some higher level courses in econ and a few grad courses in statistics and accounting.
Well, based on a simple GPA/LSAT search of US News and World Report online, there are about 13 schools in the US that I stand a good chance of getting into; my GPA is generally on their low 25th percentile, my LSAT on their high end.
So far my definite choices are George Mason University, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison, Boston University, and the College of William and Mary.
There are another 8 schools I want to search through, Univ. of Alabama, Univ. of Illinois-Urbana Champaign, Tulane Univ., Washington Univ., Univ. of Connecticut, Univ. of AZ-Rogers, Univ. of Iowa, and Univ. of Utah; I stand a good chance of getting in, but I don't know whether I want to pursue them yet.
LSAC Law School calculator (what schools you qualify for by GPA & LSAT):
http://officialguide.lsac.org/search/cgi-bin/lsatgpa.asp
Rob (considering Law school, but not sure)
http://officialguide.lsac.org/search/cgi-bin/lsatgpa.asp
Rob (considering Law school, but not sure)
NP. What type of law are you considering? I'm thinking about law school just for the challenge, but I'm not quite sure why.
I think it'd be fun to take the LSAT just to see where I score; I'm not really sure where a 3.73GPA (UW) gets you.
Rob
Originally posted by: Entity
NP. What type of law are you considering? I'm thinking about law school just for the challenge, but I'm not quite sure why.
Rob
Probably taxation or estate law, but I don't know for sure. I've always found constitutional law and international law to be interesting as well.
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: Entity
NP. What type of law are you considering? I'm thinking about law school just for the challenge, but I'm not quite sure why.
Rob
Probably taxation or estate law, but I don't know for sure. I've always found constitutional law and international law to be interesting as well.
Any sites you'd recommend for LSAT preparation? I've always been tossing around the idea of law...would possibly like to have a background in it, at the least.
170 back in 1993. Almost aced the Analytical Reasoning section -- think I missed one question. The sad part was that when I applied to University of Chicago, that was the MEAN LSAT score. Glad I didn't get accepted though so it didn't matter.
Orsorum or Tennisflip:
Is UW-Madison any good for law school? My wife and I are grads of Madison but she wants to go back to law school so that would require us to move back.
Is UW-Madison any good for law school? My wife and I are grads of Madison but she wants to go back to law school so that would require us to move back.
Vanderbilt. Think it was ranked 14 when I was accepted, but it's probably slipped (it had when I was there). Good school though, few jerks and backstabbers (at least at the start!).
To be frank, Orsorum: There have been a number of articles about prospective law students in 2003. The economy seems to have created too many law and prospective law students . When the economy is bad, people go back to school. Many people are choosing law. (There are other suggestions for the reason people are choosing law, but the economy seems to be the primary consensus.) As a result, prospective law students have too many competitors. What would have sounded like an excellent score 3 years ago isn't when a comparison is made amongst all scores. The competition is fierce! It helps to have a great recommendation and other activities that would give you an edge, otherwise you'll have to settle for third tier or lower schools. To be fair, the problem of too many applicants seems to be present in California, Hawaii and another state, which I forget.
It makes me cringe thinking that they actually set a quota for A, B, C, D and F students. Not all schools do that, but beware of schools like Hastings, Boalt Hall (UC Berkeley) and a few others I don't remember. The professors are expected to fail a number of students, and pass a number with each passing grade. So again, it will be about how well your analysis or writing compares with that of other students.
I guess you don't have to look that far. Look at how many AT members are considering law school or are moving in that direction. How many would have contemplated it three years ago?
My sister highly recommends Georgetown. Her recommendations are usually excellent, so I should trust her judgment here. However, I am looking at University of Iowa primarily; then Ohio State Univ, Washington and Lee or University of Arizona, Rogers ('cuz of its dual-degree in econs and law, but highly unlikely). I thought about Vanderbilt, since they offer a dual-degree in economics, but I'm not sure I want that location . . . and it's too expensive for me. I would rather go to University of Virginia (not that expensive, except I would be an out-of-state student) or Georgetown if I must go to an extremely expensive school. I hope to get scholarships so schools such as Georgetown would be an option for me. Then again, I'm looking to make sufficient money in the career I'm presently pursuing that would afford me education from my pocket.
Here's a good read: Opinions of students in top 10 law schools-2002.
There's also this excellent idea (similar to what I began doing years ago but quit): Evaluate your professor. They have law schools listed too (not all though). You can have an idea of what students are saying. Of course there's a potential for disgruntled students who got a bad grade to rate their professors low, but that doesn't skew the results of the survey. There's equally a tendency for students to rate a professor highly because they scored a high grade. They also have a teachers' ratings site. It's for primary and secondary schools. There's a third site that I found useful, but it doesn't get many contributors: Teacher Reviews. You can see in depth review without having to pay.
It makes me cringe thinking that they actually set a quota for A, B, C, D and F students. Not all schools do that, but beware of schools like Hastings, Boalt Hall (UC Berkeley) and a few others I don't remember. The professors are expected to fail a number of students, and pass a number with each passing grade. So again, it will be about how well your analysis or writing compares with that of other students.
I guess you don't have to look that far. Look at how many AT members are considering law school or are moving in that direction. How many would have contemplated it three years ago?
My sister highly recommends Georgetown. Her recommendations are usually excellent, so I should trust her judgment here. However, I am looking at University of Iowa primarily; then Ohio State Univ, Washington and Lee or University of Arizona, Rogers ('cuz of its dual-degree in econs and law, but highly unlikely). I thought about Vanderbilt, since they offer a dual-degree in economics, but I'm not sure I want that location . . . and it's too expensive for me. I would rather go to University of Virginia (not that expensive, except I would be an out-of-state student) or Georgetown if I must go to an extremely expensive school. I hope to get scholarships so schools such as Georgetown would be an option for me. Then again, I'm looking to make sufficient money in the career I'm presently pursuing that would afford me education from my pocket.
Here's a good read: Opinions of students in top 10 law schools-2002.
There's also this excellent idea (similar to what I began doing years ago but quit): Evaluate your professor. They have law schools listed too (not all though). You can have an idea of what students are saying. Of course there's a potential for disgruntled students who got a bad grade to rate their professors low, but that doesn't skew the results of the survey. There's equally a tendency for students to rate a professor highly because they scored a high grade. They also have a teachers' ratings site. It's for primary and secondary schools. There's a third site that I found useful, but it doesn't get many contributors: Teacher Reviews. You can see in depth review without having to pay.
Luvly - thanks for the hard advice.
It is still up in the air, but I have some excellent schools I am looking at, and I do have another year to stay in undergrad if so I choose.
So you're considering a dual-law degree & Masters in Econ?
It is still up in the air, but I have some excellent schools I am looking at, and I do have another year to stay in undergrad if so I choose.
So you're considering a dual-law degree & Masters in Econ?
Axon
Platinum Member
- Sep 25, 2003
- 2,541
- 1
- 76
168 in 2001. I got a B.A. in '02 and was attending Syracuse Law this year with a predicted J.D. of '06. Had to take leave of abscense due to my mother falling ill. Not sure if I'm going back, and if I do, I'm going to CUNY Queens to get the J.D. for a song.
My thoughts on Law School:
1. Admissions - Just like the employment stats, these are padded. A 168 and a 3.4 didn't get me into Columbia or NYU (or Georgetown, for that matter.) If you don't go to one of the top ten, it really doesn't matter anyway. I'll get to that in a moment. U.S. News is pretty accurate, make sure you leave yourself a "safe" school or two.
2. Career Prospects - Here's where things get funky. As long as you're in a solid school (Anything in or near top 100), you'll have the oppurtunity to interview with law firms during the fall recruiting push. While most firms will humor you, the vast majority have a ridiculous cut-off point - they won't even look at anyone below a certain GPA or ranking. (You'll need to be top 5% of class, Moot court, Law review, and Journal in most cases. If you're good enough to be published, you should be able to write a memo/stip/complaint.) This is, essentially, a caste system and it can be frustrating and scary. If you're in, say, Princeton, the firms might be willing to look as "low" as the top 15 or 20%. Thanks fellas. However, if you excel, firms will hire you - giving you the honor of working 12-20 hours a day for them. Yay!
3. Grading - Grading is done entirely on a curve. If I scored a 95% on a test, but the rest of my class scored 96 - 100%, I would recieve an F grade. All letter grades are given in relation to the scores of your classmates. To make it even more fun, you get one test per class and NO feedback. So, if you screw up the final, you're done, your life is over, you're in the 50 percentile and no one is going to look at you beyond a paralegal gig. Professors have to give out a certain amount of F's, so someone is taking the fall. This can turn decent people into competitive, psychotic animals; they will do their best to eliminate any advantage you may have. Watch your back, reveal nothing. The sad truth is the vast majority of people will end up with a 3.0 GPA. You can't argue with statistics.
4. Almighty dollar - Law school is too expensive, unless someone is paying for you. Even with a considerable grant, I was going to be around 70 k in the hole when I finished. If you can, go in your home city and save the housing money. It usually will save you 30 grand.
I'm still debating if this is worth it.
My thoughts on Law School:
1. Admissions - Just like the employment stats, these are padded. A 168 and a 3.4 didn't get me into Columbia or NYU (or Georgetown, for that matter.) If you don't go to one of the top ten, it really doesn't matter anyway. I'll get to that in a moment. U.S. News is pretty accurate, make sure you leave yourself a "safe" school or two.
2. Career Prospects - Here's where things get funky. As long as you're in a solid school (Anything in or near top 100), you'll have the oppurtunity to interview with law firms during the fall recruiting push. While most firms will humor you, the vast majority have a ridiculous cut-off point - they won't even look at anyone below a certain GPA or ranking. (You'll need to be top 5% of class, Moot court, Law review, and Journal in most cases. If you're good enough to be published, you should be able to write a memo/stip/complaint.) This is, essentially, a caste system and it can be frustrating and scary. If you're in, say, Princeton, the firms might be willing to look as "low" as the top 15 or 20%. Thanks fellas. However, if you excel, firms will hire you - giving you the honor of working 12-20 hours a day for them. Yay!
3. Grading - Grading is done entirely on a curve. If I scored a 95% on a test, but the rest of my class scored 96 - 100%, I would recieve an F grade. All letter grades are given in relation to the scores of your classmates. To make it even more fun, you get one test per class and NO feedback. So, if you screw up the final, you're done, your life is over, you're in the 50 percentile and no one is going to look at you beyond a paralegal gig. Professors have to give out a certain amount of F's, so someone is taking the fall. This can turn decent people into competitive, psychotic animals; they will do their best to eliminate any advantage you may have. Watch your back, reveal nothing. The sad truth is the vast majority of people will end up with a 3.0 GPA. You can't argue with statistics.
4. Almighty dollar - Law school is too expensive, unless someone is paying for you. Even with a considerable grant, I was going to be around 70 k in the hole when I finished. If you can, go in your home city and save the housing money. It usually will save you 30 grand.
I'm still debating if this is worth it.
One of the key factors I am considering when looking at schools (beyond whether I can get in, ) is the ability for me to work as a GA or a CA, or maybe even as an RD in their housing dept. For a relatively small amount of work, I can save anywhere from $7,000 to $10,000 a year.
) is the ability for me to work as a GA or a CA, or maybe even as an RD in their housing dept. For a relatively small amount of work, I can save anywhere from $7,000 to $10,000 a year.I've just decided that law school sucks. Everything Axon just posted is true. My school imposed a mandatory grade curve during the summer, and I felt the brunt of that taking a legal accounting survey course. Little did I know it was full of accounting/economics majors and even a couple CPAs. I missed *one* T/F question and ended up with a C+. All the firms that came to OCI (on-campus interview) this fall looked only for top 25-30%, or law review or moot court. If you don't have connections coming into law school, via some special past job or connected relative, you better hope you beat out 75% of your classmates in your first year of law school, who are all well-qualified to get in anyways. Seriously, unless you *really* want to be a lawyer, you might want to reconsider.
Ugh, I need a nap.
Ugh, I need a nap.
Axon
Platinum Member
- Sep 25, 2003
- 2,541
- 1
- 76
Originally posted by: Orsorum
One of the key factors I am considering when looking at schools (beyond whether I can get in,
Good plan. Hopefully this doesn't fall under the 20 hours a week limitation the ABA puts on J.D. candidates.
Originally posted by: Axon
Originally posted by: Orsorum
One of the key factors I am considering when looking at schools (beyond whether I can get in,
Good plan. Hopefully this doesn't fall under the 20 hours a week limitation the ABA puts on J.D. candidates.
Depends on the position; if it's a CA or GA position, I think they specifically keep it under 20 hours/week; I think that's a limitation most universities have on student employees.
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