What UPS or surge strip?

[Jeff7]

This is because other, more powerful equipment may draw necessary voltage away from the UPS which it requires to remain online

But couldn't other devices do this if they're on the same circuit - plug the UPS into the wall socket, but an air conditioner is on the same circuit. It doesn't matter if they're on the same outlet or surge strip even; it's the same circuit. If the AC goes on, the battery might kick in briefly.

 

[WackyDan]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

This is because other, more powerful equipment may draw necessary voltage away from the UPS which it requires to remain online

But couldn't other devices do this if they're on the same circuit - plug the UPS into the wall socket, but an air conditioner is on the same circuit. It doesn't matter if they're on the same outlet or surge strip even; it's the same circuit. If the AC goes on, the battery might kick in briefly.

Good point. I continue to run mine through a surge suppressor... No problems what so ever - had it setup this way for months.

 

[marksman1uhm1]

Does your UPS managing sofware give you info on voltage spikes? If so, plugging your UPS into a surge protector might be a good way to see when your surge protectors are worn out and need to be replaced.

 

[marksman1uhm1]

While I'm on the subject of wearing out surge protectors: these guys (http://www.brickwall.com) claim their surge protectors don't ever wear out.

 

[KDOG]

I just got a APC BackUPS ES 500 yesterday to replace my BackUPS Office 280 that died after 3 years of abuse. I love the software that came with it. Simple and smooth. I'd stick with APC. They even have a trade up program where you can replace you old/dead unit with a new, better one if you want. They even pay for the shipping of your old unit!!! I'll be trading up for a BackUPS ES 350 or 500 in a week or so...

 

[marksman1uhm1]

Does your UPS managing sofware give you info on voltage spikes?

 

[KDOG]

Yup it does. It will switch to battery if the voltage goes over 138 or below 88 volts, and it will log the info for later viewing. Peace.

 

[RanDum72]

WackyDan from what I have heard over the years, plugging a surge device into another surge device is a no no

This became a major problem before when people plugged EVERYTHIng into the surge protector (or power strip, whatever you call it), which is in turn plugged into the UPS. The load was more than what the UPS can handle. But as long as you don't overload the UPS, there shouldn't be any problems. I've had surge/power strips attached to UPS's for the longest time and never had any problems.

As for UPS recommendations, APC is a natural choice. Tripplite also makes good UPS's (Costco sells them). And make sure the UPS has AVR (auto voltage regulation) so dips and spikes in the current are smoothed out without resorting to battery power.

 

[KDOG]

All I plug into the battery ports is the rig and the monitor, nothing else. A few other things (printer, speakers, cable modem) are plugged into the surge only ports.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: RanDum72

WackyDan from what I have heard over the years, plugging a surge device into another surge device is a no no

This became a major problem before when people plugged EVERYTHIng into the surge protector (or power strip, whatever you call it), which is in turn plugged into the UPS. The load was more than what the UPS can handle. But as long as you don't overload the UPS, there shouldn't be any problems. I've had surge/power strips attached to UPS's for the longest time and never had any problems.

As for UPS recommendations, APC is a natural choice. Tripplite also makes good UPS's (Costco sells them). And make sure the UPS has AVR (auto voltage regulation) so dips and spikes in the current are smoothed out without resorting to battery power.

Well, I'm not an EE, but I once read a very technical explaination, and the issue is more running a UPS plugged into a surge, not a surge plugged into a UPS (I think... IIRC). Something to do with the MOVs used in cheaper surges, and what they do during a surge event, they effectively temporarily short themselves out, to shunt the current, so that it doesn't go through the connected devices "downstream" as well. Basically sacrificing themselves to form the path of least resistance for the surge.

Apparently, having a UPS plugged into something that shorts itself out, is a Bad Thing. I wish I could remember exactly why this is, but again, I'm not an EE.

(I could be wrong, perhaps the issue is indeed with MOV-based surge-supressors "downstream" of the UPS, but that doesn't make sense, because the surge would have already have to have overloaded the UPS itself to reach the surge-supressor, so if those MOVs decided to "fire" and short the circuit, the UPS was probably toast/overloaded already, so a shorted downstream load probably couldn't do that much worse.)

And for all of the pro-APC people around here, I'm kind of partial to Tripp-Lite myself, they also make good stuff, and were the inventors of the "ISOBAR" surge-protection device.

That said, if the OP is planning on spending $150, might as well get something top-of-the-line, an APC SmartUPS of around 900-1100VA would be probably be a wise spending choice, those also offer line-conditioning as well. My Tripp-Lite "Internet Office 450" does not, it's just a standby UPS, but it's worked out well for me, even powered both my primary and a secondary rig too.

As for the Belkin or CyberPower models, I have no personal experience with those. I thought that I once heard mention that one of them was in fact a re-branded APC unit, but I can't provide any proof of that. The shape of some of the Belkin models does look a little similar.

 

[MWink]

WOW there seems to be a lot of misinformation in this thread. Let me try to clear things up. As for plugging a UPS into a surge protector, I'm not aware of any problem with that (and I've done it myself without any problem) but I could be wrong.

Now about plugging a surge protector into a UPS, THAT is the big no no. According to APC's knowledge base (at least in the past), it relates to the waveform the UPS outputs. The Stepped Wave that the Back-UPS's output can cause problems if it goes through a surge protector. They say that if you want to plug a surge protector into a UPS you must have a UPS that outputs True Sine Wave. I don't know why the article linked in this thread says otherwise but that IS what APC used to say. (I had investigated this thoroughly in the past)

Also, Belkin and Cyber Power are in now way related to APC. I can't speak about Cyber Power but Belkin makes some of the WORST power protection products. I know plenty of people who have had Belkin sure protectors fail. Also when Consumer Reports rated surge protectors, EVERY Belkin they tested FAILED (continued to let power/surges through after the protection had worn out). The company you are thinking of is Conext. This is just a theory but I think Conext is a new brand APC cooked up to test market cheap crappy products. Conext products are 100% identical to APC products as far as I can tell, they just come out before the APC version or have inflated ratings.

BTW my personal experience is that APC is the best. My first UPS (or 3 UPS's if you count the replacements) was a Tripp Lite and it was a TOTAL piece of crap. It was the "under monitor" version and it interfered with any monitor I placed it under. Also for some reason it would sometimes go to battery when I first turned my computer on, and since it couldn't handle the initial draw bad things would happen. After that experience I have stayed away from Tripp Lite. I have since used quite a few APC UPS's and they have all worked exceptionally well. I have a Back-UPS Pro 650 that is still going strong after almost 6 years (albeit I had to replace the battery).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: MWink
WOW there seems to be a lot of misinformation in this thread. Let me try to clear things up. As for plugging a UPS into a surge protector, I'm not aware of any problem with that (and I've done it myself without any problem) but I could be wrong.

Now about plugging a surge protector into a UPS, THAT is the big no no. According to APC's knowledge base (at least in the past), it relates to the waveform the UPS outputs. The Stepped Wave that the Back-UPS's output can cause problems if it goes through a surge protector. They say that if you want to plug a surge protector into a UPS you must have a UPS that outputs True Sine Wave. I don't know why the article linked in this thread says otherwise but that IS what APC used to say. (I had investigated this thoroughly in the past)

Also, Belkin and Cyber Power are in now way related to APC. I can't speak about Cyber Power but Belkin makes some of the WORST power protection products. I know plenty of people who have had Belkin sure protectors fail. Also when Consumer Reports rated surge protectors, EVERY Belkin they tested FAILED (continued to let power/surges through after the protection had worn out). The company you are thinking of is Conext. This is just a theory but I think Conext is a new brand APC cooked up to test market cheap crappy products. Conext products are 100% identical to APC products as far as I can tell, they just come out before the APC version or have inflated ratings.

BTW my personal experience is that APC is the best. My first UPS (or 3 UPS's if you count the replacements) was a Tripp Lite and it was a TOTAL piece of crap. It was the "under monitor" version and it interfered with any monitor I placed it under. Also for some reason it would sometimes go to battery when I first turned my computer on, and since it couldn't handle the initial draw bad things would happen. After that experience I have stayed away from Tripp Lite. I have since used quite a few APC UPS's and they have all worked exceptionally well. I have a Back-UPS Pro 650 that is still going strong after almost 6 years (albeit I had to replace the battery).

Thanks for the clarification about the surge strips, and Conext. That name does ring a bell.

I think you might be slightly a bit too harsh about the under-monitor UPS, I would never trust one of those to power a main rig, no matter what brand it was. Generally those are smaller capacity, and useful for smaller accessories. I'm not surprised that you had problems powering your main rig with it. What was the rating on it? Like I mentioned, my Tripp-Lite 450 has been good to me thus far, although it's probably high time that I replace the battery, it has been nearly 3 years, and I did have one incident a month and a half ago, woke up to a completely-silent system, after what must have been an extended blackout.

 

[MWink]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry


Thanks for the clarification about the surge strips, and Conext. That name does ring a bell.

I think you might be slightly a bit too harsh about the under-monitor UPS, I would never trust one of those to power a main rig, no matter what brand it was. Generally those are smaller capacity, and useful for smaller accessories. I'm not surprised that you had problems powering your main rig with it. What was the rating on it? Like I mentioned, my Tripp-Lite 450 has been good to me thus far, although it's probably high time that I replace the battery, it has been nearly 3 years, and I did have one incident a month and a half ago, woke up to a completely-silent system, after what must have been an extended blackout.

I think it was 420 or 450VA. This was a very long time ago back when computers required less power. It was powering a Pentium 133 system and a 14" monitor. The problem wasn't really that it couldn't power the system but that during the initial draw, when first powering on the system (remember this was the days of AT power supplies) it would switch to battery and the battery couldn't take the initial draw. If it went to battery after the system was running it would run quite a while.

 

[Jeff7]

An under-monitor UPS? Weird. I wouldn't expect that, considering that there's an inverter, battery charger, and various other major sources of EM fields in those things - not the sort of thing you'd want near a monitor.

MWink - good point about the modified sine-wave output, and its effect on a surge protector. I think that I read that it'll strain the noise supression circuits or something like that.

My UPS experience has been:
Tripplite, IBM (relabeled Tripplite though), APC, and Cyberpower. I've only ever used the monitoring software with the Cyberpower; the others were just sort of..."dumb" UPSes. The Tripplite I've got has been working for a few years. To give an idea of its age, it is a 675VA model, and it was $200 new at Best Buy at the time. Quite a few years old, and still working. I might want to check out its surge supression ability though; the Protection light on a Tripplite surge protector I had went out, indicating no protection. It is merely a power strip now. I wonder if the UPS got hit too.