What this election means for the country and the Democratic party

[Infohawk]

It looks like this is a continuation of what started with the Republican revolution. The middle of the country is getting more Republican and mainly socially conservative.

There are two Americas. People are going to blame Kerry and the Democratic party. I don't blame them. I think it was clear what was at stake in this election. If the Democrats had pandered any more they would be compromising of their base (which is still quite large). Why did they lose and why have been losing? Social conservatives and red states are growing. I think this will be the status quo until hispanics really start to dominate our politics.

The consequences for America? More division. Liberals are not going to go away but they are not going to be in power. As a country we will continue to drift away from the rest of the world which is a lot closer to the Coasts then it is to the red states in terms of values. Over the long long runt this country will slowly decline as the sole world power. A big part of it will be the traditional values of this country. I just don't think you can have a vibrant culture and country with such reactionary morals inside a population. America used to be on the forefront of ideas. I don't see that continuing. My point is not to trash people here, just to give my opinion.

(It's not 100% official at the time of my posting for this but even the congressional races speak loudly as to this continuing shift).

 

[Kibbo]

Yup
/Picks up Mandarin for Dummies.

 

[T2T III]

Well, if Howard Dean hadn't been so much of a hot head, the Dems would have nominated him and he would have won the election this year.

 

[Tylanner]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech
Well, if Howard Dean hadn't been so much of a hot head, the Dems would have nominated him and he would have won the election this year.

I dont think he could have ridden his Anti-war train into November.

Kerry quickly jumped off that train after his nomination which gave him a chance.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech
Well, if the media hadn't blown Howard Dean's Iowa speach out of proportion, the Dems would have nominated him and he would have won the election this year.

fixed

 

[ajf3]

Obvious... means the libs are WRONG.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: ajf3
Obvious... means the libs are WRONG.

No. Actually that is just an appeal to authority. That would be like saying conservatives were wrong in 92 and 96 because Clinton won.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: ajf3
Obvious... means the libs are WRONG.

popularity doesn't have anything to do with right or wrong.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech
Well, if the media hadn't blown Howard Dean's Iowa speach out of proportion, the Dems would have nominated him and he would have won the election this year.

fixed

Seriously, that's it right there.

Anyway, the OP mentioned the US declining as the world's sole super-power. I'm all for that.

 

[Rob9874]

I think it shows that this country is a conservative country, despite what you read in the media. The faith-based middle America still outweighs the fringe lunatics on the coasts.

 

[MidasKnight]

Originally posted by: ajf3
Obvious... means the libs are WRONG.

:thumbsup:

 

[Tylanner]

The country is just in a conservative swing.

If I'm reading your post right you think the Liberal base will slowly be ran out of mainstream politics?

 

[villager]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
It looks like this is a continuation of what started with the Republican revolution. The middle of the country is getting more Republican and mainly socially conservative.

There are two Americas. People are going to blame Kerry and the Democratic party. I don't blame them. I think it was clear what was at stake in this election. If the Democrats had pandered any more they would be compromising of their base (which is still quite large). Why did they lose and why have been losing? Social conservatives and red states are growing. I think this will be the status quo until hispanics really start to dominate our politics.

The consequences for America? More division. Liberals are not going to go away but they are not going to be in power. As a country we will continue to drift away from the rest of the world which is a lot closer to the Coasts then it is to the red states in terms of values. Over the long long runt this country will slowly decline as the sole world power. A big part of it will be the traditional values of this country. I just don't think you can have a vibrant culture and country with such reactionary morals inside a population. America used to be on the forefront of ideas. I don't see that continuing. My point is not to trash people here, just to give my opinion.

(It's not 100% official at the time of my posting for this but even the congressional races speak loudly as to this continuing shift).

First thing is that it is time for Democratics to realize the south is lost. They need to figure out a strategy that will add on the states they already have. Trying to out conservative the GOP in the South will lead to nowhere. They need to figure out how to bring in voters in the Mid West and West, who are less conservative and more willing to vote on economic and social issues.

 

[joepa99]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
It looks like this is a continuation of what started with the Republican revolution. The middle of the country is getting more Republican and mainly socially conservative.

The middle of the country has always been, not is getting, socially conservative.

There are two Americas. People are going to blame Kerry and the Democratic party. I don't blame them. I think it was clear what was at stake in this election. If the Democrats had pandered any more they would be compromising of their base (which is still quite large). Why did they lose and why have been losing? Social conservatives and red states are growing. I think this will be the status quo until hispanics really start to dominate our politics.

The problem with the Democratic Party is that they had no common platform in 2004 other than being anti-Bush. How much in common do you really think New England liberals have with southern Democrats?

The consequences for America? More division. Liberals are not going to go away but they are not going to be in power. As a country we will continue to drift away from the rest of the world which is a lot closer to the Coasts then it is to the red states in terms of values. Over the long long runt this country will slowly decline as the sole world power. A big part of it will be the traditional values of this country. I just don't think you can have a vibrant culture and country with such reactionary morals inside a population. America used to be on the forefront of ideas. I don't see that continuing. My point is not to trash people here, just to give my opinion.

One person's "vibrant culture" is another person's perversion...

(q]

 

[AntiEverything]

Originally posted by: Infohawk... My point is not to trash people here...

Pardon me while I laugh maniacally for the next ten minutes or so...

 

[nageov3t]

maybe the North East will ceceed. that would rock

 

[everman]

On thing that has not been focused on very much is Supreme Court judges, which if Bush is elected will most likely be appointing a replacement for the judge who seems to be in bad physical health right now. These judges can have huge, long lasting effects and the general public does not seem to have a large focus on this.

 

[miketheidiot]

This means that democrats need to focus on the economics and less on the social issues. Too many people voted for bush and other republicans (cnn said something about a southern senator how campaigned on getting rid of the income tax and going to a nat'l sales tax) for social issues despite that this is extremely against their interests.

 

[Pliablemoose]

It means you were too goddamn stupid to listen to reason, it means that yelling doesn't actually win an argument, it means you were just plain flat wrong.

It means if you yell & scream enough, people will lie to the pollsters, just like people quit listening to you, just like people lied to the exit pollsters today.

The last time the polls were this wrong, was when the first black governor was elected, people were unwilling to tell the pollsters how they were going to vote.

Anarchist Democrats aren't ever going to cut it.

Democrats need to move more centrist & leave the fringes like you in the dust. The Dems need to burn down the house & build a new one.

This is too goddamn sweet.

If I were of draft age, I'd be real concerned about staying out of the service & the draft right now. We need soldiers to fight in Iran, yes, I said Iran...

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Tylanner
The country is just in a conservative swing.

If I'm reading your post right you think the Liberal base will slowly be ran out of mainstream politics?

This is not just any conservative swing. This is a social conservative swing. And I'm not saying the liberal base will be run out of mainstream politics. I'm saying they ARE a relatively powerless minority, nevertheless a huge one. And you won't see liberals joining jews for jesus either, just like you didn't see conservative christians go hippie in the 60s. In other words, liberalism isn't dying, it's just not in power and probably won't be in power in this country for a while.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
It means you were too goddamn stupid to listen to reason, it means that yelling doesn't actually win an argument, it means you were just plain flat wrong.

It means if you yell & scream enough, people will lie to the pollsters, just like people quit listening to you, just like people lied to the exit pollsters today.

The last time the polls were this wrong, was when the first black governor was elected, people were unwilling to tell the pollsters how they were going to vote.

Anarchist Democrats aren't ever going to cut it.

Democrats need to move more centrist & leave the fringes like you in the dust. The Dems need to burn down the house & build a new one.

This is too goddamn sweet.

If I were of draft age, I'd be real concerned about staying out of the service & the draft right now. We need soldiers to fight in Iran.

*sigh* What was a wrong about, exactly pliablemoose? An election doesn't decide who's right or wrong, it decides who has power.

 

[Necrolezbeast]

I sorta feel as if the Republicans have started growing under Bush. Being as we are constantly slated with this terrorism crap. One of the most effective ways to get people to follow is by fear; if someone is living in constant fear they feel as if they need the support: patriot act, increased national defense and military, etc. Under the Clinton administration the democrats were dominating, and probably been dominant still if Gore had been able to take presidency 4 years ago. This years election I believe would have been better if Hilary ran for office. She has less similarities to Bush, while Kerry was similar in many ways. I believe the American people had figured that Bush could perform better as there was no dramtic difference in the foreign affairs had Kerry been elected. I feel in 2008 we will have a different America that will either be of two things depending on how Bush acts this presidency: If he is to act slightly more responsive and seem more capable to perform and have better success in Iraq and the rest of the world we will see even more conservatives; if Bush takes this presidency to act in a more radical fashion it may scare the public back the to liberal side of things. Everyone remember the last 8 years or so and compare them to the America we live in at the time of the 2008 election.

 

[nageov3t]

The Dems need to burn down the house & build a new one.

I totally agree. That's why I'm not too upset about Bush's win.

But still... the idea of the Republicans gaining a strong majority in the Senate and keeping the Presidency scares the everloving crap out of me. I dread seeing what kind of pork barrel spending is unleashed.

 

[Bumrush99]

Well, Info, we can not forget how important the Republican revolution in 1994 was for the country. Newt Gingrich was the architect of the biggest political realignment in the history of this country and the effects will be felt for decades.

Listen, you can not win them all. The Democratic Party controlled congress for over 40 years and the tide has turned. This election was a big statement by the GOP, they won the popular vote and strengthened their stronghold in the Congress. They retain the Supreme Court seat of Judge Rehnquist and will determine our policies for a long time.

The DNC needs to step back and start over. What worked in the past will no longer work. A strong, unified grass roots campaign needs to start tomorrow, with a new strategy to win future elections. In order to that, they have to challenge the Republican machine which is unified and which has a huge base of followers due to the success of people like Rush Limbaugh and the Fox "News" network. This will not happened overnight, but it must happen if the Democrats are to have any shot of taking back the house, senate and the presidency.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
This means that democrats need to focus on the economics and less on the social issues. Too many people voted for bush and other republicans (cnn said something about a southern senator how campaigned on getting rid of the income tax and going to a nat'l sales tax) for social issues despite that this is extremely against their interests.

I actually agree. I'm wondering how many fiscal conservatives are out there. I don't agree with libertarians but some sort of party that concentrates on social liberalism that would unite fiscal conservatives with traditional Democrats is the only block that could rival the social conservatives.