What the? I want conclusive proof. Macs?!

[Rapsven]

One of my friends (who I think is very knowledgeable on PCs) tells me that Mac computers suck. That they are overpriced and underperforming compared to what PCs have to offer. I agree with him, even though I have never seen one in action.

I checked google for Mac reviews and I've never been able to find one review that doesn't have the word 'mac' in its domain name.

When is Anandtech going to get its Mac section rolling? Or do ard OCP or THG do anything on Macs?!?!!?

 

[n0cmonkey]

What is the color of Thursday?

 

[Fuchs]

It will be hard to get a good review of a mac on this site also. I'm not sure there are a whole lot hangin around here. I'm definitely a pc guy and an idiot when it comes to the details of a mac....sorry.

 

[Mik3y]

macs are actually very good systems. i wouldnt mind having one...as a family computer, but they are superior in certain things compared to pc's. your friend is correct on how they are overpriced tho. on a match wtih dual opterons 250 vs dual g5's, the opteron manages to beat it in many things and the g5's manage to win in certain areas too. i forgot where i saw the benchmarks before tho.

 

[InlineFive]

N/M

 

[Xyrrus]

The question "do Macs cost more" has been around for a really long time and doesn't have a straight answer. It depends a lot on timing, what you're comparing it to and what Mac you're talking about. For instance, I use a Powerbook G4 that cost me about $3000 18 months ago. The only things that matched it in terms of specs at the time (GigE, Radeon 9K Mobility, Widescreen, Size & Portability, DVD Writer) were high end Sony laptops that had similiar sticker prices. As I was moving around a lot at the time and it was going to be my only computer, I figured it was worth it. The current G5s have excelent specifications as well. Dual 2.5Ghz, 8GB max ram, optical audio, PCI-X, SATA, 600W PSU, etc. They start at $2000 and, generally speaking, if you try to match a PC to the Mac's specs (especially adding things like firewire 800, you'll wind up with a similiar price. I'd be hard pressed to find sombody who, upon looking at those specs, would say "that machine sucks"

The problem is that the comparison doesn't go both ways. I'm lucky enough to be able to be dual platform kind of guy and I'm about to build a new gaming rig myself. For $1500 I can get an Athlon 64 3500+ on socket 939, a gig of fast ram, a 6800GT... in short a great gaming rig for $500 less than Apple's lowest-end G5 model. At work we can buy 2.8Ghz Intel based dells for $650 and laptops for not much more than that.

There's a lot more too it of course (If you're a gamer, regardless of price, a Mac just isn't for you). In short, a lot of the specs speak for themselves. Even if you can't find benchmarks (and a lot of cross platform benchmarks are pretty useless), tell your friend to sit down at Apple's site and look over what goes into those Aluminum cases. Operating System preference aside, I think he'll be suprised to see what $2000 buys you from Apple.

-Xy

 

[DarkAmeba]

Desktop wise, I would not buy a mac. They are a bit pricy and do not do what I need in a desktop. They are, however, great machines if you're not into gaming but are still a power user like a video editor.

However: The Apple Powerbooks are INCREDIBLE I am a PC guy and I still love my Powerbook to death.

iPods are also imo the best mp3 player money can buy.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Well, while I personally don't like Macs much at all, I do recognize that they are cool in their own way.

They've got great aesthetics (both software and hardware wise). Also, I like their push for 64 bit and dual processor and now dual-core computers.

Too bad that Apple and Microsoft couldn't work together to make an OS thats better than Windows or MacOS.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
Well, while I personally don't like Macs much at all, I do recognize that they are cool in their own way.

They've got great aesthetics (both software and hardware wise). Also, I like their push for 64 bit and dual processor and now dual-core computers.

Too bad that Apple and Microsoft couldn't work together to make an OS thats better than Windows or MacOS.

Mac OS X rocks. Windows 2k/XP are ok (I'm biased towards *nix, so this is the best I can do). Why have 1 when you can have 2? Competition is a good thing.

 

[Wahsapa]

performance isnt everything, and if you were to compare the way windows xp performs to mac os x, apple wins hands down. gaming is a whole nother area.

 

[NFactor]

Originally posted by: DarkAmeba
Desktop wise, I would not buy a mac. They are a bit pricy and do not do what I need in a desktop. They are, however, great machines if you're not into gaming but are still a power user like a video editor.

However: The Apple Powerbooks are INCREDIBLE I am a PC guy and I still love my Powerbook to death.

iPods are also imo the best mp3 player money can buy.

I completely agree with you.

 

[Gurck]

About their reputation for being good media editors - what makes them so good at this? If it's the software then, although the reputation may once have been deserved, I'd have to venture a guess that the PC would now have better editing software available due to competiton (programmers don't line up to write software for a platform used by such a small percentage of computer users). Or is it that the chip is just more efficient at it, the way Intels are supposed to be faster video editors than AMDs?

 

[wfbberzerker]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
What is the color of Thursday?

aqua!

 

[HermDogg]

Originally posted by: Gurck
About their reputation for being good media editors - what makes them so good at this? If it's the software then, although the reputation may once have been deserved, I'd have to venture a guess that the PC would now have better editing software available due to competiton (programmers don't line up to write software for a platform used by such a small percentage of computer users). Or is it that the chip is just more efficient at it, the way Intels are supposed to be faster video editors than AMDs?

Good god no! The Mac editing software is sooo much better on just about every level, especially for video. Work with Final Cut Xpress and you'll see what I mean. It has just about the same filters for video as Photoshop does for pictures. Macs are better for the video/graphical arts perspective, while Windows-based are better for the average user.

Ease-of-use is another touchy issue. Macs are more user-intuitive to someone who has never seen a computer before. That being said, almost everyone in the world has been brought up on a PC, so naturally a quasi-classic Windows environment (XP) is much similar than OS X is for Mac. That being said, I am fairly proficient at both, and prefer some facts of both OS'. Once again, video editing KILLS on the Mac as opposed to the PC. iMovie vs. Movie Maker 2 is not even funny.

The price is basically the whole Beta vs. VHS debate all over again. Apple doesn't allow others to make its products, so there's no competition or variety. PCs are so inexpensive because everybody and their uncle started up a production company and started distributing PC components. In addition, a lot of the iMacs/eMacs and stuff are commonly compared pricewise with regular comptuers. Anyone who has used a lamp iMac can tell you they are very, very different. Also, the processor speeds cannot be compared straight across.

Macs make shiatty mice, though. Besides the fact that there's only one button, the production quality is absolutely horrible. Ask anyone who's got one of the new black optical mice. Plus, the old G4s used to ship with those little circle things that were atrocious. Luckily, the Mac DOES support a two-button mouse.

iTunes rules. End of story.

There are two problems plaguing the Mac: 1) Brand affiliation and 2)Freeware/shareware. The brand affiliation comes from people who have been using PCs all their lives and have heard nothing but bad things about the Mac. They have no previous experience, and, like all new things, are scared. The freeware/shareware comes in because while there is a decent amount of shareware for Mac, it pales in comparison to the PC. Every decent application for the Mac costs money.

/End long-winded reply.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: Wahsapa
gaming is a whole nother area.

Nother? *shudder*

I hear that mistake all the time, but I've never seen it in print before.

Ahh, well. Carry on.

 

[HermDogg]

Originally posted by: Tostada

Originally posted by: Wahsapa
gaming is a whole nother area.

Nother? *shudder*

I hear that mistake all the time, but I've never seen it in print before.

Ahh, well. Carry on.

noth·er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nthr)
adj. Informal
Other. Usually used in the phrase a whole nother, as in the sentence That's a whole nother story.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[From alteration of another(interpreted as a nother).]


I, too, used to think it wasn't a word. The dictionary has shown me the error of my ways.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
What is the color of Thursday?

blue, or thats how I always saw it when I was a kid

 

[Pandamonium]

Originally posted by: DarkAmeba
Desktop wise, I would not buy a mac. They are a bit pricy and do not do what I need in a desktop. They are, however, great machines if you're not into gaming but are still a power user like a video editor.

However: The Apple Powerbooks are INCREDIBLE I am a PC guy and I still love my Powerbook to death.

iPods are also imo the best mp3 player money can buy.

I'd have to concur. Apple makes its largest profit margin in its desktops because they're overpriced. The G5 is a great computer, but IMO, it is not worth the amount Apple wants. As far as their laptops, I think Apple offers some of the best prices on laptops. (I only look at the 12" models though) The iPod, while a bit overpriced, is still the king of MP3 players for a reason: it's damn cool.

 

[nortexoid]

why even worry about whether or not macs are "faster" or "better" than PCs if u're not even considering purchasing one?

(btw, they are faster and better in certain circumstances, and slower and worse in others. i really think it's more a matter of OS X vs. Win XP, than Mac hardware vs. PC hardware. there's a really good review on the net somewhere pitting the two against each other. very thorough as well.)

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: nortexoid
why even worry about whether or not macs are "faster" or "better" than PCs if u're not even considering purchasing one?

(btw, they are faster and better in certain circumstances, and slower and worse in others. i really think it's more a matter of OS X vs. Win XP, than Mac hardware vs. PC hardware. there's a really good review on the net somewhere pitting the two against each other. very thorough as well.)

I think it's all about the user experience. Some people like Macs, some people prefer Windows, some people like Linux (*shudder*), some people like Solaris, etc. If you like the Mac, use one and everyone else be damned.

 

[Rapsven]

All rhetoric and no show.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't plan on relying on word of mouth rather than a review by a trusted site.

Give me a link with a site that doesn't have 'mac' or 'apple' in the domain. Jeez.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Rapsven
All rhetoric and no show.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't plan on relying on word of mouth rather than a review by a trusted site.

Give me a link with a site that doesn't have 'mac' or 'apple' in the domain. Jeez.

What are you looking for exactly? How will you quantify the word "better"?

Like I originally asked: What is the color of Thursday?

 

[dwcal]

Originally posted by: DarkAmeba
Desktop wise, I would not buy a mac. They are a bit pricy and do not do what I need in a desktop. They are, however, great machines if you're not into gaming but are still a power user like a video editor.

Definitely, the G5 towers are overpriced. They don't look so bad compared to a dual Xeon or dual Opteron, but those are overpriced too compared to a high end A64 or P4. On the low end the eMacs are pretty reasonable, starting at $799. Still expensive compared to say a Dell Dimension 2400, but only a little more. For a non-power user who just needs email, web surfing and Office, it's a good choice.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Rapsven
All rhetoric and no show.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't plan on relying on word of mouth rather than a review by a trusted site.

Give me a link with a site that doesn't have 'mac' or 'apple' in the domain. Jeez.

What are you looking for exactly? How will you quantify the word "better"?

Like I originally asked: What is the color of Thursday?

This is true. You need to know what you are looking for... Price/performance comparison? Gaming? Security/Virus vulnerability? Ease of use? You get the idea...

There is no perfect Software or hardware platform. They all have their shortcomings and their strengths.

 

[Rapsven]

Okay.....

How about just give some benchmarks of real applications that both the Macs and PCs.

Games (even Macs have games, some pretty recent), Video Editing Software, Business Apps, the works. Like what Anandtech uses.

And I don't want to hear what YOU have to say. Take a look at the AMD vs Intel reviews that Anandtech does, sure, Intel and AMD have strengths and weaknesses, but you can still determine which is better overall.