what the hell is wrong with the army?

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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Nebor
The ideas on which America were founded are worth faith and loyalty.

:confused:

Actually I agree with the statement, but the ideas on which America was founded have been tossed into the garbage can. Invading and occupying foreign countries certainly was not an idea our founders had.

the same founding fathers who invaded and occupied native american's countries?
 

ultra laser

Banned
Jul 2, 2007
513
0
0
It makes perfect sense. We send our scum over there to rape their women and kill their children to ensure we'll have terrorism forever. For in the name of fighting terrorism anything the government does is permissible.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
864
98
91
Originally posted by: ultra laser
It makes perfect sense. We send our scum over there to rape their women and kill their children to ensure we'll have terrorism forever. For in the name of fighting terrorism anything the government does is permissible.

I can't even think of acceptable words to respond to such trash. The way you have tried to categorize our military personnel is despicable.

Some of the finest men and women this country have ever known have put their lives on the line and will continue to do it so people, like you, can enjoy the freedom of spouting such ignorance.

Before you try to counter that they aren't protecting your freedoms in Iraq, please read again and notice that I made no mention of Iraq.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: loki8481
recruitment standards blows my mind...

border-line retarded? check.
sex offender? check.
child abusers? check.
druggie? check.
terrorists? sure, why not.
gays? sorry, gotta draw the line somewhere.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/22/usa.iraq

god dammit, I'm going to have to vote for the bastard in November, aren't I?

So they gave out a whole 500 waivers?

I sense some overreaction here.

Personally, I don't have a problem with giving someone a second chance, as long as there is some screening process in place.

Fern
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
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Personally, I don't have a problem with giving someone a second chance, as long as there is some screen process in place.

Better still, they (the aforementioned felons) get this waiver only to be immediately sent to a place where they have to risk EVERYTHING to get a clean start again. These people should be lauded for giving everything to prove that they are ready to rejoin "normal" soceity. Too many people are self-entitled and never bother to give back anything to soceity other than a bad attitude.

Being in a combat MOS in a war zone is a life changing event. We can only hope that they come home safe and ready for their new life.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
The OP's list isn't long enough... then again, there are many more things that are going very well in the Army.

In that way, it reminds me of every/any other large organization or bureaucracy... imagine that.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I thought they have pretty much done away with don't ask don't tell because of the war?

I know I read that some place. Most likely an unofficial policy.

"Hey Sarge, I'm gay"
"Oh wow, I'm happy too, not get out there and fight."

Unless you're in a totally unneeded and unnecessary position like, oh i dunno, Arabic translator? Good thing we're not involved in any wars in the Middle East or we'd really have a problem.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14052513/
But the GAO also noted that nearly 800 dismissed gay or lesbian service members had critical abilities, including 300 with important language skills. Fifty-five were proficient in Arabic
I would agree that is a messed up situation.

The good news is this guy might be able to get a job as a civilian contractor making a LOT more money doing the same thing. Strange how our government works at times.
 

fornax

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
6,866
0
76
Originally posted by: Nebor
So I'm a 30-ish guy leaving a 6 figure job, nice house and cush life for the Army. And according to the wall of enlisted and OCS candidates at the local recruiting office, I'm not the only one. Lots of high quality people are still lining up to serve their country. :)

You mean the salaries and the houses are listed on the wall?
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,537
6,975
136
Originally posted by: palehorse74
The OP's list isn't long enough... then again, there are many more things that are going very well in the Army.

In that way, it reminds me of every/any other large organization or bureaucracy... imagine that.

worth repeating. well said.:thumbsup:

 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: loki8481
recruitment standards blows my mind...

border-line retarded? check.
sex offender? check.
child abusers? check.
druggie? check.
terrorists? sure, why not.
gays? sorry, gotta draw the line somewhere.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/22/usa.iraq

god dammit, I'm going to have to vote for the bastard in November, aren't I?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You forgot, gotta have more warm bodies for Canon Fodder check. Or the merry go round of combat stops.

Fewer and fewer rational people want to volunteer to be bullet stoppers. So they can be misused by GWB the insane. Or his possible successor John McCain.

Enlistment may have spiked when the Iraq war enjoyed 90% public support. For the same reason we have to expect enlistments to plummet when support plummets. Only one way to get the needed bodies and thats to scrape the absolute bottom of the barrel. Meaning we will get a morally degenerate army that will tend to be the worst they can be.

As a defender of the Iraq war, I felt it necessary to reconcile my feelings with my actions, and turned my Officer Candidate School packet into my recruiter on Friday (ps, it's really, really difficult to get high school transcripts when you're nearly 30.)

So I'm a 30-ish guy leaving a 6 figure job, nice house and cush life for the Army. And according to the wall of enlisted and OCS candidates at the local recruiting office, I'm not the only one. Lots of high quality people are still lining up to serve their country. :)

Kudos, pal. It's funny how liberals scream that we should put our money where our mouth is. Having read the numerous ravings against your supposedly blind loyalty, it's evidence enough to me that "putting your money where your mouth is" isn't sufficient.

I've come to accept the fact that if liberals ever become content, they cease to be liberals.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
I'm in the Army, and I don't give a rat's ass if the soldier next to me is gay -- it doesn't bother me one damn bit.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Originally posted by: Atreus21

I've come to accept the fact that if liberals ever become content, they cease to be liberals.

Rather, it's that you righties are too easily contended, failing to improve society.

You would have left in place the colonies under England, slavery, women not voting, the robber barons with mass poverty, 90% of American elderly in poverty before socieal security, 'separate but equal', labor 'signing individual contracts' for low wages and bad conditions rather than haveing the right to organize, and more.

Liberals are content with a lot, and looking to fix little things like tens of trillions in debt.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Nebor
The ideas on which America were founded are worth faith and loyalty.

:confused:

Actually I agree with the statement, but the ideas on which America was founded have been tossed into the garbage can. Invading and occupying foreign countries certainly was not an idea our founders had.

the same founding fathers who invaded and occupied native american's countries?

Hummmm.... Somerset County NJ is right in the middle of Unami land. why dont you give your house back to the natives????


after all are you a illegal occupier and you own land paid for by innocent blood.

 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Originally posted by: palehorse74
I'm in the Army, and I don't give a rat's ass if the soldier next to me is gay -- it doesn't bother me one damn bit.

What about gangbangers, don't have to be convicted felons just members, what is the present policy on this potential problem?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: palehorse74
I'm in the Army, and I don't give a rat's ass if the soldier next to me is gay -- it doesn't bother me one damn bit.

What about gangbangers, don't have to be convicted felons just members, what is the present policy on this potential problem?

I've known many former gangbangers in the Army... some were bad soldiers, some were good. I went to Basic Training in 1991 with a few guys covered in gang tattoos. Most of them lost their street attitudes very quickly when the DS' started laying into them.

So, as others have been saying, this isn't news, and I don't know what the policy is for their recruitment, or how said policy has changed, if at all, during the last seven years...
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Atreus21

I've come to accept the fact that if liberals ever become content, they cease to be liberals.

Rather, it's that you righties are too easily contended, failing to improve society.

You would have left in place the colonies under England, slavery, women not voting, the robber barons with mass poverty, 90% of American elderly in poverty before socieal security, 'separate but equal', labor 'signing individual contracts' for low wages and bad conditions rather than haveing the right to organize, and more.

Liberals are content with a lot, and looking to fix little things like tens of trillions in debt.

See my sig ;)

Fern
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
1
81
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Atreus21

I've come to accept the fact that if liberals ever become content, they cease to be liberals.

Rather, it's that you righties are too easily contended, failing to improve society.

You would have left in place the colonies under England, slavery, women not voting, the robber barons with mass poverty, 90% of American elderly in poverty before socieal security, 'separate but equal', labor 'signing individual contracts' for low wages and bad conditions rather than haveing the right to organize, and more.

Liberals are content with a lot, and looking to fix little things like tens of trillions in debt.

See my sig ;)

Fern

hmm... let's see... a republican was president when sufferage was granted; a republican freed the slaves; methinks u should work on your sighting... we evil bastards have plenty of things u could pin on us, but please don't attribute evils that we didn't take the time/effort to sustain...

 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I thought they have pretty much done away with don't ask don't tell because of the war?

I know I read that some place. Most likely an unofficial policy.

"Hey Sarge, I'm gay"
"Oh wow, I'm happy too, not get out there and fight."

So, since we haven't heard about any problems with "unit cohesiveness" with don't-ask/don't-tell unofficially abandoned, does this mean that the right-wing nut-jobs who insisted that gays in the military was a recipe for disaster now admit that they were wrong?

And if they admit they were wrong about that, do they also acknowledge that they could well be wrong that allowing same-sex couples to marry would destroy the "sanctity" of marriage? Is there any evidence that in Canada and Spain, where the legal status of same-sex marriages is EXACTLY the same as that of opposite-sex marriages, marriage has been de-sanctified? How about in Massachusetts?

Come on. You're pretty much a mouthpiece for the right. Let's hear what the latest anti-gay "reasoning" is.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I thought they have pretty much done away with don't ask don't tell because of the war?

I know I read that some place. Most likely an unofficial policy.

"Hey Sarge, I'm gay"
"Oh wow, I'm happy too, not get out there and fight."

Unless you're in a totally unneeded and unnecessary position like, oh i dunno, Arabic translator? Good thing we're not involved in any wars in the Middle East or we'd really have a problem.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14052513/
But the GAO also noted that nearly 800 dismissed gay or lesbian service members had critical abilities, including 300 with important language skills. Fifty-five were proficient in Arabic

Gays threaten "unit cohesion" (because straights and gays obviously can't be friends) and they might look at your junk in the shower thereby damaging the very fragile masculinity of the average military man.
Let a gay guy ogle a big, tall all-American heterosexual and the whole unit will go to pot. Whereas, clearly, the manifold rapes of female service members by heterosexual male sodiers are great for unit cohesion.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: shira
Originally posted by: K1052

Gays threaten "unit cohesion" (because straights and gays obviously can't be friends) and they might look at your junk in the shower thereby damaging the very fragile masculinity of the average military man.
Let a gay guy ogle a big, tall all-American heterosexual and the whole unit will go to pot. Whereas, clearly, the manifold rapes of female service members by heterosexual male sodiers are great for unit cohesion.

Dude are you stupid?

Who says rape is great for unit cohesion? Who says rape is condoned?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Atreus21

I've come to accept the fact that if liberals ever become content, they cease to be liberals.

Rather, it's that you righties are too easily contended, failing to improve society.

You would have left in place the colonies under England, slavery, women not voting, the robber barons with mass poverty, 90% of American elderly in poverty before socieal security, 'separate but equal', labor 'signing individual contracts' for low wages and bad conditions rather than haveing the right to organize, and more.

Liberals are content with a lot, and looking to fix little things like tens of trillions in debt.

See my sig ;)

Fern

Yes, I know, the right doesn't see problems as problems.

For example, when JFK ran for president in 1960, the Republicans looked at domestic poverty and did not see a problem, only a danger for the government to do anything.

Kennedy saw a problem, and promised the malnourished families in West Virginia to increase the government's food aid, and his first executive act fulfilled that promise.

The democrats in the 60's saw poverty as a problem, and by the end of the decade, the poverty rate for Americans was reduced by a third, and has remained reduced.

Republicans hear that and predict disaster - we can't afford any spending on our own people, the debt will skyrocket, it's fiscally irresponsible!

They don't look at the facts - LBJ, with his great society AND the enormously expensive Vietnam war AND the moon project eating up to over 5% of the federal budget - LBJ's last budget, in 1969, was the last balanced budget the US had until Bill Clinton's later budgets at the end of the 1990's. Don't ask a Republican to explain that - all they know is that the Republicans talk small, and so they're for them, and they don't agree with their party when democrats point out the facts, but they'll still side with them for saying what they like.

90% of the elder in poverty in the US before FDR? What are you gonna do? Not a problem says the right, always been that way. FDR created social security and the number slipped eventually down to 10% in poverty. Yes, Republicans fought hard against the program and predicted it was unworkable. Yes, they continued to fight it for decades after it was working so well and their predictions had been proven wrong.

Politics in American should be Americans acting as a whole to do things they want their society to do.

The right's animosity to politics is its anti-Americanism, since America was founded to give political power to the people through an elected government.

The right will praise the idea of our democracy all day while demanding the people not actually use the government to do anything, just as they praise the idea of free speech and condemn actual use of it to criticize the government. For them, free speech is only useful for something to brag about regarding their nation, and to demand for themselves.

Of course there is one area the right can see problems - even where they don't exist, and that's wherever their limitless appetite for the land, the services, the belongings of others are at stake, able to see a 'threat' demanding our ever-increasing dominance in response in the world. They'd be at home in any of history's empires, more than the land of our founding fathers' land of peace, with Washington's call for avoiding any foreign entanglements and Jefferson's warnings about standing armies threatening democracy.