What the HELL is wrong with Canada!!!

[Victorian Gray]

Oh yes, harper's fault if they aren't arrested and it would be harper's fault for violating their rights if they were picked up. Obviously there has been no crime committed, or there is a lack of evidence, or no reasonable chance of conviction.

I'm not a huge fan of harper but the endless bitching about every single thing he does is quite... American.

Who else is to blame if these people are not picked up? The gov't is ultimately responsible and they have chosen to allow these people their freedom.

If there is a serious issue with any of these folks they should be dealt with appropriately by the legal system.

If there is not an issue, then the govt. should never have raised it

 

[Victorian Gray]

That is more or less the point of this thread. Exploring different options and what not.

Would the Muslim Canadians not be considered enemy combatants? Not sure how Canadian law handles that situation.

My personal opinion is to revoke their passport and/or citizenship. Make it perfectly clear that if a Citizen of Canada fights for a foreign Country or group that is considered to be an enemy of Canada then be prepared to suffer the consequences such as loss of passport or citizenship for example.

Nobody better be trying to take away the citizenship of anyone born in Canada (as I understand many/most? of these people are).

As for the passports, already done for most. if not all, of the people being watched.

 

[Remobz]

Nobody better be trying to take away the citizenship of anyone born in Canada (as I understand many/most? of these people are).

As for the passports, already done for most. if not all, of the people being watched.

Good to know.

 

[iGas]

How does dual citizenship change anything? Most of these fucktards are not causing havoc in their home countries. Also... Unless you renounced your Vietnamese citizenship to Vietnamese officials you're a dual citizen.

Are you an immigration lawyer, judge, or Vietnamese government official?

I had a choice of keeping my Vietnamese citizenship when I filled out the application for to become a Canadian citizen from landed immigrant status. And, funny that I was under the same assumption as you when I traveled back to Vietnam in 1993 and was whisked away to a foreigner jail when I landed at Saigon airport (there were more than a dozen other people beside my self at the jail, as well as a 65+ year old nun), because I hold a Canadian passport and didn't have a Visa upon arrival (it took 4 days for them to process and grant me a tourist Visa, and I had to pay for the Visa and the accommodation). And, I got myself a tourist Visa to visit VN for the second time in 2013.

Fuck tards or not, a person who come to Canada to live should swear allegiance to Canada and bear all responsible of Canada as a Canadian instead of take advantage of it.
Why should Canada allow people to come and go as they please if Canada simply is an economic haven or a safety house for the criminals?
IMHO, people should be free to do what they want but there are consequences to their actions. Don't go and join any army outside of Canada, join criminals activities in or out of Canada, or send money to support radical groups.

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_VIETNAM.html

DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED

 

[iGas]

Not only is it treason, it's pretty much the textbook definition of treason.

I stand corrected. I didn't know that Canada actively fighting ISIS.

 

[iGas]

That is more or less the point of this thread. Exploring different options and what not.

Would the Muslim Canadians not be considered enemy combatants? Not sure how Canadian law handles that situation.

My personal opinion is to revoke their passport and/or citizenship. Make it perfectly clear that if a Citizen of Canada fights for a foreign Country or group that is considered to be an enemy of Canada then be prepared to suffer the consequences such as loss of passport or citizenship for example.

Canadian who join an army outside of Canada, be it Afghan freedom fighter, US army, UK army, Israel army, Chinese army, Vietnamese army, etc... should be prosecute to the fullest extend of the law.

 

[Screech]

An interesting (IMHO) outlook on this issue:

http://pando.com/2014/10/24/the-war...wannabe-jihadis-an-upgrade-to-business-class/

basically, the argument is that you should let anyone who wants to go, go, so that as many of them die as possible as well as providing cover for certain individuals who may be associated with ungentlemanly warfare etc

edit: but yeah I wouldn't want them coming back in

 

[Whiskey16]

Canadian who join an army outside of Canada, be it Afghan freedom fighter, US army, UK army, Israel army, Chinese army, Vietnamese army, etc... should be prosecute to the fullest extend of the law.

A bloody fascist fantasy of yours - never going to happen. Not in the Canadian character nor ever to pass into legislation, and particularly pass a Constitutional smell test.

Such a dream of your could be thought of in the tiniest portion of this country, a rather nonsensical outlier, outside of this nations character, and that of extreme statism and national. Not even the rather strongly militaristic and jingoistic USA takes your extremist view to deny the freedom of association and participation in such bodies that are not criminalised against.

The few loonies of the pass week are not going to change this country. That, for the vast majority other than yourself, can all be proud of.

 

[iGas]

A bloody fascist fantasy of yours - never going to happen. Not in the Canadian character nor ever to pass into legislation, and particularly pass a Constitutional smell test.

Such a dream of your could be thought of in the tiniest portion of this country, a rather nonsensical outlier, outside of this nations character, and that of extreme statism and national. Not even the rather strongly militaristic and jingoistic USA takes your extremist view to deny the freedom of association and participation in such bodies that are not criminalised against.

The few loonies of the pass week are not going to change this country. That, for the vast majority other than yourself, can all be proud of.

You and many law makers do not have the same view as I, but perhaps people as such are naive or have ulterior motives. But IMHO, most immigrant as well as every immigrant in my community have similar believes as I, because we are upstanding Canadian citizen and are shamed as well as pigeon hole by the crimes of a few.

[add]
Just to let you know what my father said to a social worker who offered to give us welfare money when we first immigrated to Victoria BC. He said, "thank you, for your generous offer, but we don't need it. We are here to work...we are not looking for handouts" (my father was taken advantage of by the company that manpower found to employed him. He was pay $970 a month for full time work, and welfare eligible for my family was $1200 per month, and welfare wanted to give us $230 as the top up for minimum living standard).

As for me, I'm not as strong as my father. However, my gf is an immigrant physician who came here on a skill worker Visa (landed immigrant, skilled worker status) that must re-qualify with the College of Medicine, hence she is eligible for welfare and she lived with me for 17 months I can claim her for tax purposes if she doesn't claim welfare. We claimed neither even those the costs for her schooling is quite substantial that I bare, but again we are here to work, and we are not looking for handouts.


PS. My father was the proud founder of the Victoria Vietnamese Association and was the president for 10 years till he passed away.

 

[Whiskey16]

Nobody better be trying to take away the citizenship of anyone born in Canada (as I understand many/most? of these people are).

Nor may this be legal, regardless of attempts by the legislative incompetence of this current federal government. If they attempt to, as hinted, then this would be yet another section of legislation that gets slammed down by the Supreme Court of Canada. Gross legal ignorance is the precedent and rational expectation for the Harper government.

Another precedent is well set, that Canadian citizenship may only be revoked upon the free choice of the citizen or upon judicial recognition of having personally fraudulently represented themselves (non-disclosure of convictions, participation in Canadian recognised criminal activity...) upon the attainment of citizenship. There is a high intrinsic to such citizenship, and any legislature may not simply cut such Constitutional rights down for opportunistic political gamesmanship....barring, of course, a drastic use of the not-withstanding-clause.

Even if one was not born here, and attained citizenship later in life, yet later grows into joining an criminal organisation, and may commit criminal acts, that does not negate what may have been a fair representation of themselves upon the application of proceedings to citizenship. By Constitutional rights, they may not loose their citizenship.

As modern democratic and constitutional state, Canada is quite capable of dealing with its own national criminals -- despite what legally ignorant and authoritarian regressives wish to abusively enforce against.

Some basics:

CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS

FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS.

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and (d) freedom of association. ...

MOBILITY RIGHTS OF CITIZENS / Right to move and gain livelihood / Limitation / Affirmative action programs.

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

Particularly upon that of mobility rights, Canadians have a more enshrined legal freedom that our relative state prisoners to our South... An easy comparative point to be made -- Cuba?

As for the passports, already done for most. if not all, of the people being watched.

The simple denial to issue a passport may be among the factors that instigated the two separate criminal acts of the past week. Particularly in Ottawa, where the offender apparently just arrived to a homeless shelter in order to be in easier proximity to application officials.

Ottawa shooting by Michael Zehaf-Bibeau was ‘last desperate act’ of a mentally ill person, his mother writes, Postmedia News | October 25, 2014

Recently, after a five-year estrangement, Zehaf-Bibeau wrote to his mother out of the blue. He told her he was well and that he was reaching out because his religion dictated that he be good to his parents. It was his duty.

Over lunch, he talked about how religion was good and how she was wrong to pursue material things, Bibeau recalled. He shared that he planned to go to Saudi Arabia to study Islam and the Qu’ran.

“He thought he would be happier in an Islamic country where they would share his beliefs,” she wrote.


But there was a hitch: the passport he had applied for more than a month ago had still not been approved. He said it might’ve been related to a person he had used as a reference.

That’s why he went to Ottawa, to try to convince officials to give him one. Bibeau, a senior official with the Immigration and Refugee Board, believes that her son’s inability to get a passport made him snap and strike back against “symbols of government.”

The role of iGas and the current government, is apparently to inflame and provoke such abhorrent situations, rather that sufficiently resolving security affairs, related domestic agencies' budgetary shortcomings, and through to ignore the lack of adequate and more accessible mental health care.

The order of the day by the current government is to broadcast bellicose bravado for being tough on crime, incarcerate more, defund in field security personal, and on more of side note (as the past week is mostly that of small-time, lone-wolf domestic crime, in the same order of the right-wing 'freeman' shootings against the RCMP in New Brunswick or in Slocan, BC, two weeks ago), starve the military of the ability and readiness to apply efficient deployments, while falsely proclaiming to be their champions.

 

[iGas]

Nor may this be legal, regardless of attempts by the legislative incompetence of this current federal government. If they attempt to, as hinted, then this would be yet another section of legislation that gets slammed down by the Supreme Court of Canada. Gross legal ignorance is the precedent and rational expectation for the Harper government.

Another precedent is well set, that Canadian citizenship may only be revoked upon the free choice of the citizen or upon judicial recognition of having personally fraudulently represented themselves (non-disclosure of convictions, participation in Canadian recognised criminal activity...) upon the attainment of citizenship. There is a high intrinsic to such citizenship, and any legislature may not simply cut such Constitutional rights down for opportunistic political gamesmanship....barring, of course, a drastic use of the not-withstanding-clause.

Even if one was not born here, and attained citizenship later in life, yet later grows into joining an criminal organisation, and may commit criminal acts, that does not negate what may have been a fair representation of themselves upon the application of proceedings to citizenship. By Constitutional rights, they may not loose their citizenship.

As modern democratic and constitutional state, Canada is quite capable of dealing with its own national criminals -- despite what legally ignorant and authoritarian regressives wish to abusively enforce against.

Some basics:

Particularly upon that of mobility rights, Canadians have a more enshrined legal freedom that our relative state prisoners to our South... An easy comparative point to be made -- Cuba?




The simple denial to issue a passport may be among the factors that instigated the two separate criminal acts of the past week. Particularly in Ottawa, where the offender apparently just arrived to a homeless shelter in order to be in easier proximity to application officials.

The role of iGas and the current government, is apparently to inflame and provoke such abhorrent situations, rather that sufficiently resolving security affairs, related domestic agencies' budgetary shortcomings, and through to ignore the lack of adequate and more accessible mental health care.

The order of the day by the current government is to broadcast bellicose bravado for being tough on crime, incarcerate more, defund in field security personal, and on more of side note (as the past week is mostly that of small-time, lone-wolf domestic crime, in the same order of the right-wing 'freeman' shootings against the RCMP in New Brunswick or in Slocan, BC, two weeks ago), starve the military of the ability and readiness to apply efficient deployments, while falsely proclaiming to be their champions.

It maybe too draconian for you and may see or use by many for their own purposes, but shutting down the dual citizenship loophole serves both Canadian and citizens of other countries such as slow down fanatics from joining armies/terrorists outside of Canada and that include Israel army as you often portray as the aggressor vs. Palestinians.

 

[Whiskey16]

But IMHO, most immigrant as well as every immigrant in my community have similar believes as I, because we are upstanding Canadian citizen and are shamed as well as pigeon hole by the crimes of a few.

The crimes of the past week weren't perpetrated by immigrants.

As already mentioned, many of the states where many have immigrated from, do not recognised the revocation of their citizenship. Such as Iran, People's Republic of China, and others. That was not the case for what became your parent's Republic of Vietnam, as until 2009, the old single-nationality rule cancelled out their Vietnamese citizenship upon attaining foreign citizenship. Particularly due to decades of foreign complications, it was more of an authoritarian, statist, and distrustful society, such a state that Canada is not and will not become, despite the outlying calls from the likes of you, iGas:

Vietnam to allow dual nationality - Par Vietnam aujourd'hui le samedi 15 novembre 2008, 08:43


HANOI — Vietnam has amended its nationality law to legalise dual citizenship, a change that could affect many in the Vietnamese diaspora of more than three million people, officials said Friday.


The legislature of the communist country on Thursday passed a revised law that maintains Vietnam's long standing single-nationality principle but, for the first time, allows for a number of exceptions.

The change means that many post-war refugees and other overseas Vietnamese who have become citizens of second countries can officially reclaim their lapsed Vietnamese nationality without losing their new citizenship.

"Those who apply to regain Vietnamese nationality can retain their foreign citizenship if they have justified cause and with permission from the state
president," reported the state-run Vietnam News Agency (VNA).

The law also says that children born overseas to at least one Vietnamese parent will be able to claim citizenship of the Southeast Asian country.
The amendment brings the decade-old law in line with what has long been common practice, as many Vietnamese immigrants in the United States, Europe, Canada, Australia and elsewhere hold two or more passports.
Vietnam has in recent years stepped up efforts to lure back overseas Vietnamese or 'Viet Kieu' many of whom still harbour a deep distrust of the state they once fled along with their capital and expertise.

Many of them fled their homeland during and after the Vietnam war, which ended in 1975, often surviving harrowing journeys as boat people followed by years in crowded refugee camps to start new lives in about 100 countries.
The VNA report said a strict single-nationality rule "no longer conforms to real-life, practical situations" and had led to many violations.

 

[Whiskey16]

...shutting down the dual citizenship loophole serves both Canadian and citizens of other countries such as slow down fanatics from joining armies/terrorists outside of Canada and that include Israel army as you often portray as the aggressor vs. Palestinians.

No, it would do no such thing.

If such are 'fanatics' then it could certainly be badge of honour and credibility gain to turn their back on Canada. Congrats, rather than deterring, you've now levelled them up.

iGas, your aren't providing any solution. Only provoking with nonsense and knee-jerk authoritarian jingoism that on balance aggravates and provokes the actions of the very type of people that killed this past week.

In effect, iGas, you are placing these the two Canadians (ain't immigrants to bring up immigration is just to muddle the situation and to enter xenophobia) who violently acted out this week, upon such a high pedestal for perceptibly earned infamy, and classifying them as such a great danger to this democratic and laudably constitutional society, that we ought to become more like the 1970's Republic of Vietnam.... iGas, you're totally out to lunch.

I am not going to permit the likes of them nor yourself change my home.

That ain't ever to be the Canada I live in nor served.

 

[cbrunny]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHEVqa8-5xA


In that video they talk about Muslim Canadians joining ISIS and basically being a traitor to their Country in my opinion.

Look at 1:10 in the video and the reporter says that about 80 have already returned. WTF? Canada actually allowed these Muslim traitors to return. I assume they still keep their Citizenship and passports.

Canada needs to come down hard on Muslim traitors leaving their Country to fight for ISIS. They must NEVER return as well. Enough is Enough.

How do you Canadians feel about this?

http://www.charterofrights.ca/en/15_00_01

 

[Victorian Gray]

The thread title has the words what the hell is wrong with Canada.

Here's an example of what's right with Canada

Cold Lake residents work together to clean up vandalized mosque, RCMP investigating

"Police in Cold Lake are investigating, after vandals struck a mosque in that city overnight – but Cold Lake residents quickly coordinated to remove the messages from the building."

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/cold-lak...andalized-mosque-rcmp-investigating-1.2069684

There are some great shots of folks helping clean up the mosque front at the link as well.

 

[sandorski]

The thread title has the words what the hell is wrong with Canada.

Here's an example of what's right with Canada

Cold Lake residents work together to clean up vandalized mosque, RCMP investigating

"Police in Cold Lake are investigating, after vandals struck a mosque in that city overnight – but Cold Lake residents quickly coordinated to remove the messages from the building."

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/cold-lak...andalized-mosque-rcmp-investigating-1.2069684

There are some great shots of folks helping clean up the mosque front at the link as well.

Indeed. :thumbsup: