what the heck is it with Dems and high speed trains?

[K1052]

You know... The problem with the democrat's and indeed some republican's idea of what high speed rail is that they think a 90 MPH Amtrak is high speed.

Why the hell are we pouring money year after year into amtrak when we could have taken it and already built true high speed ( Maglev ) lines in some of the most heavily congested parts of the country? Atlanta to D.C? D.C. to Boston? San Fran to San Diego?

Build a truly fast train and people will take it for the shorter hops. I have no problem with the gov't building a common infrastructure and leasing rail time to high speed passenger services during the day, and high speed freight at night.

You can either pay now or pay later, but sooner or later our 1800's rail infrastructure has got to go the way of the dinosaurs.

Event at bargain basement prices it would cost a minimum of $200-300B just to replicate the service of the Northeast Corridor using Maglev. That's more than 100 times the current Amtrak annual subsidy.

 

[Brainonska511]

Event at bargain basement prices it would cost a minimum of $200-300B just to replicate the service of the Northeast Corridor using Maglev. That's more than 100 times the current Amtrak annual subsidy.

And at least 3 times more than the recent Amtrak proposal to build a true HSR line in the Northeast ($117.5 billion over 25 years). Maglev is nice, but it isn't really needed.

 

[lothar]

A train from Baltimore to Indianapolis costs $184-199 and takes 19-22 hours.
An airplane from Baltimore to Indianapolis costs $59-83 and takes 2 hours.

A train from Baltimore to Washington DC costs $15-21 and takes 45 minutes.
Driving from Baltimore to Washington DC costs $6-7 in gas and takes 40 minutes.

A train from Baltimore to Raleigh costs $85 and takes 7 hours.
Driving from Baltimore to Raleigh costs $31 in gas and takes 5 hours.
An airplane from Baltimore to Raleigh costs $95 and takes 1 hour.

Why exactly would anyone want to take a train?

 

[Brainonska511]

A train from Baltimore to Indianapolis costs $184-199 and takes 19-22 hours.
An airplane from Baltimore to Indianapolis costs $59-83 and takes 2 hours.

A train from Baltimore to Washington DC costs $15-21 and takes 45 minutes.
Driving from Baltimore to Washington DC costs $6-7 in gas and takes 40 minutes.

A train from Baltimore to Raleigh costs $85 and takes 7 hours.
Driving from Baltimore to Raleigh costs $31 in gas and takes 5 hours.
An airplane from Baltimore to Raleigh costs $95 and takes 1 hour.

Why exactly would anyone want to take a train?

WOOSH. This thread went over your head.

Why take a train:
-Don't have to deal with traffic
-Don't have to find a parking space
-Don't want to make the drive
-Work while you travel
-Mass transit in the target city is good enough to get you where you need to go
-You don't own a car

This thread is about HSR rail service. With true HSR service, those quoted times would be much lower. And who would take a train from Indianapolis to Baltimore with those times? If there was a train that could average 160mph on its route, assuming 600 miles to travel, you could make that trip in a little under 4 hours. Not bad, considering it would probably take about 3-4 hours flying (if you include the time sitting in the airport since you need time to get through security, etc...)

 

[Fear No Evil]

WOOSH. This thread went over your head.

Why take a train:
-Don't have to deal with traffic
-Don't have to find a parking space
-Don't want to make the drive
-Work while you travel
-Mass transit in the target city is good enough to get you where you need to go
-You don't own a car

This thread is about HSR rail service. With true HSR service, those quoted times would be much lower. And who would take a train from Indianapolis to Baltimore with those times? If there was a train that could average 160mph on its route, assuming 600 miles to travel, you could make that trip in a little under 4 hours. Not bad, considering it would probably take about 3-4 hours flying (if you include the time sitting in the airport since you need time to get through security, etc...)

You forgot:

Costs a forture.
Nobody will ride it.

Just a liberal wet dream to further increase our debt and give kickbacks to the unions.

 

[nobodyknows]

Why exactly would anyone want to take a train?

It's easier to park?

 

[Fear No Evil]

It's easier to park?

Have you ever tried parallel parking a locomotive? Stop talking stupid. :awe:

 

[K1052]

You forgot:

Costs a forture.
Nobody will ride it.

Just a liberal wet dream to further increase our debt and give kickbacks to the unions.

It's expensive but millions upon millions would ride it.

Since you can't tear new freeways through the major population hubs and our air travel network is nearly saturated there really is little choice anymore.

 

[nobodyknows]

Have you ever tried parallel parking a locomotive? Stop talking stupid. :awe:

As long as you keep them on the rails they're easy to park.

 

[lothar]

WOOSH. This thread went over your head.

Why take a train:
-Don't have to deal with traffic
-Don't have to find a parking space
-Don't want to make the drive
-Work while you travel
-Mass transit in the target city is good enough to get you where you need to go
-You don't own a car

This thread is about HSR rail service. With true HSR service, those quoted times would be much lower. And who would take a train from Indianapolis to Baltimore with those times? If there was a train that could average 160mph on its route, assuming 600 miles to travel, you could make that trip in a little under 4 hours. Not bad, considering it would probably take about 3-4 hours flying (if you include the time sitting in the airport since you need time to get through security, etc...)

Buy an airplane ticket or get a GPS that has traffic avoidance.
You can buy an airplane ticket from Southwest to go to most places for cheap. A shuttle service is $12 to the airport so you don't even have to drive there.

And those already quoted high train prices would even be higher.
You are under the false assumption that high speed rail would cost the same as a regular Amtrak fare with the benefits of full speed.
The only place where high speed rail service makes sense is Washington DC to Boston.
When I was in college, I used to take Amtrak since I didn't get my car till '07 and the trains were always empty, costs more, and took longer.
Once I got a car, I never went back to using Amtrak.

That high speed train still won't beat going with Southwest for $59.
Buy your ticket online and do online check-in. Weigh your boxes at home before leaving instead of being one of those people who do it in front of the flight attendant opening your box to take things out. Unless you're going on an international flight, going through security is only 30-45 minutes tops.

 

[Chaotic42]

Another issue is that train stations on long distance lines will need to be near things like car rental places. Maybe they'd have to go in airports.

 

[Fear No Evil]

It's expensive but millions upon millions would ride it.

Since you can't tear new freeways through the major population hubs and our air travel network is nearly saturated there really is little choice anymore.

I regularly drive from Tampa to Orlando, one of the suggested HSR routes that people want built. Its quite an easy drive.. Sure, sometimes traffic gets busy but its usually running at 75-80 mph. Why exactly do we need to spend billions to put a train in? 80% of that route runs through rural areas that could EASILY be expanded to about 16 lanes in each direction if needed.

Everything in Orlando and Tampa is so spread out that you need a car once you get to either place anyway.

Trains are stupid and a waste of money (That we DON'T HAVE) for most implementations being discussed. Its nothing but another liberal wet dream thats going to put us in even more debt.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Another thing I've noticed during this debate and the previous ones about "mass transit" is that people have stuck their head in a box and can not imagine that there would be an easier way to do this instead of the traditional way. Think about it. Don't be a lemming- trains no matter how fast aren't going to be the answer.

 

[Brainonska511]

Another thing I've noticed during this debate and the previous ones about "mass transit" is that people have stuck their head in a box and can not imagine that there would be an easier way to do this instead of the traditional way. Think about it. Don't be a lemming- trains no matter how fast aren't going to be the answer.

What's your suggestion, besides trying to offhandedly call people that support rail infrastructure lemming?

 

[Jadow]

So I take a train somewhere, then I get off the train, ooh, my true destination isn't the train station, its 4 miles from the station, I guess I gotta get a cab or find a bus, etc...

What a hassle

 

[Brainonska511]

So I take a train somewhere, then I get off the train, ooh, my true destination isn't the train station, its 4 miles from the station, I guess I gotta get a cab or find a bus, etc...

What a hassle

The same thing applies to the airport or parking in a major city.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

What's your suggestion, besides trying to offhandedly call people that support rail infrastructure lemming?

My suggestion is for people to think. I am already working on my idea. I've pitched my idea to a few people I know and we are forming a group to look into it. We don't have major players yet but when it's ready and/or pitched - you likely won't hear from me again. It's just an idea at this point so the odds are tiny that anything will come from it but my brother and I have been talking about this idea for years - just within the last year have we put enough details together to bring others in to help us refine it.
The whole point I am trying to make is that don't get stuck thinking traditionally. Trains have been around for a long time - they aren't going to be embraced in America again in their traditional form - and they won't make money - especially for American transportation. Something new must be invented - a new form - a new way of thinking.

<-- stuck in backwoods(swamp) NC on a startup with nothing better to do today.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

So I take a train somewhere, then I get off the train, ooh, my true destination isn't the train station, its 4 miles from the station, I guess I gotta get a cab or find a bus, etc...

What a hassle

Now think and solve the issue. It's a very valid issue - but one that doesn't close the door entirely on the idea.

 

[Chaotic42]

Now think and solve the issue. It's a very valid issue - but one that doesn't close the door entirely on the idea.

Done:

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Done:

:thumbsup:

 

[Bowfinger]

Done:

I think he's talking about transporters (like Star Trek). We won't need planes, trains, or automobiles when we can just beam ourselves from A to B. I better sell all my oil stock now.

Just got back from Europe a couple of months ago. The rail system there is fantastic -- fast, clean, and far more comfortable and less hassle than flying. Between consistently over-booked flights, frequent delays, cramped seating, constant nickle-and-diming, and security theater, flying has become a royal pain in the ass. If America had something comparable to Eurorail, I'd use it.

 

[Matthiasa]

Yeah it's a lot, but so is putting in highways as well. A single lane even a rural area can cost $3~10million per mile. Now add in at minimum2 lanes on each side for any traffic above 0, and well you get the idea. In urban areas the costs can be 2~8 times higher depending on certain factors. Transit systems simply just aren't cheap.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Yeah it's a lot, but so is putting in highways as well. A single lane even a rural area can cost $3~10million per mile. Now add in at minimum2 lanes on each side for any traffic above 0, and well you get the idea. In urban areas the costs can be 2~8 times higher depending on certain factors. Transit systems simply just aren't cheap.

But the wonderful thing about a road is that any American who owns a car (Almost all of us) can drive on it when we want, where we want.

 

[rudeguy]

Done:

dude...they need to put those in every mall and parking garage NOW. I'll pay an extra 5% in taxes just for that!

 

[rudeguy]

But the wonderful thing about a road is that any American who owns a car (Almost all of us) can drive on it when we want, where we want.

Right.

Our road system is what sets us apart from lesser nations. No need to take a boat, donkey or penguin to get to where you need to go. We spent a lot of money and still pay A LOT of money for our road system. Are they going to cut our other taxes to pay for this train?

No?

So I get to pay for highways and trains? That's great.