What the heck happened? How is it that I can play my WMC/Silicon-Dust TV captures without the original HTPC hardware?

[BonzaiDuck]

THE HISTORY: I had at one time two SiliconDust HDHomeRun triple-tuners, basic and premium channels streamed through the network from those devices and throughout the house.
Supposedly, the DVR'd material would only play on the HTPC. After I removed the tuners from the network, some -- not all -- of the files wouldn't play on the HTPC. But a vast library of material remained.

With no more Media Center, I still felt compelled to integrate the HTPC back into my entertainment center. I was planning to do it before I replaced my 2011 LG "Smart" TV, and after I bought my Sony Bravia a couple months ago. The Bravia gave me an incentive to explore "Smart TV" apps. I had fallen behind, standing pat with the WMC-enabled HTPC until the cable-TV configuration fell apart for it and WMC was no longer supported. I just lost patience with the rented cable-CARDs for the tuners. Even so, glad to get rid of the extra hardware, like the tuner-adapters that came with the cable-CARDs.

I was just poking around. I'd already discovered that KODI for Android TV brought back some of the WMC features I'd had. Many of the streaming subscriptions allow for DVR to the Cloud, but I wasn't very encouraged by that. When we bought 33 1/3 LP albums for the record changer, we thought that we "owned" them. Same with VHS tapes. Same with DVR captures before Jack Valenti and DRM. There was a reprieve with Media Center; but the video captures were knitted to the hardware.

I DISCOVER that KODI for Android TV will PLAY all my DVR content stored on my file server -- without the HTPC hardware! How does this happen?! A MIRACLE! Or so I think . . .

 

[Geven]

That's a fascinating discovery you've made! It's not exactly a miracle, but it's close. Here's the scoop:

KODI, being a powerful media center software, has the ability to handle a wide variety of file types, including those recorded using SiliconDust's HDHomeRun tuners. What you're seeing is the power of KODI's extensive codec support.

Also, while WMC did tie recordings to the hardware through DRM, it seems like not all recordings were encrypted. The ones that play are likely those unencrypted files.

Remember, KODI doesn't bypass DRM, so any shows that were recorded with copy-protection will still not play.

 

[Tech Junky]

When it comes down to it media is all stream-able over IP.

WMC / KODI / Plex are all just media managers for your files. When it comes to OTA they just interface with the tuners and manage the recordings into folders / seasons. The only special thing that might occur is transcoding if the device can't handle the codec directly.

For instance OTA recordings are MPEG2 / TS extensions from the tuner. MP2 is relatively easy to deal with as any TV with a built in tuner does it already. The management software / transcoding are there to handle things like converting 4K content down to FHD or audio codecs like Atmos and multi channel down to stereo if you don't have an audio setup.

The twist in more recent times with ATSC3 is that you still get the recording in either MP2 or HEVC depending on the source and then you have a different audio codec being used that is Dolby which requires a licensed codec that cause issues with most DVR options. Using the ATSC3 tuners directly don't pose an audio problem but, the audio gets dropped in most DVR apps because they don't have the codec since it's not free.

ATSC 3.0 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BonzaiDuck]

When it comes down to it media is all stream-able over IP.

WMC / KODI / Plex are all just media managers for your files. When it comes to OTA they just interface with the tuners and manage the recordings into folders / seasons. The only special thing that might occur is transcoding if the device can't handle the codec directly.

For instance OTA recordings are MPEG2 / TS extensions from the tuner. MP2 is relatively easy to deal with as any TV with a built in tuner does it already. The management software / transcoding are there to handle things like converting 4K content down to FHD or audio codecs like Atmos and multi channel down to stereo if you don't have an audio setup.

The twist in more recent times with ATSC3 is that you still get the recording in either MP2 or HEVC depending on the source and then you have a different audio codec being used that is Dolby which requires a licensed codec that cause issues with most DVR options. Using the ATSC3 tuners directly don't pose an audio problem but, the audio gets dropped in most DVR apps because they don't have the codec since it's not free.

ATSC 3.0 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

All of the saved DVRs remaining -- stored on my server -- play without the HTPC hardware. I could try and play them on another computer and -- AS I RECALL -- they wouldn't play. But they play directly from the server files to the Sony TV.

I've recently discovered that the Android TV KODI app fails after so many days, or after using another music playback app on the Sony. It has to be uninstalled, reinstalled, and informed about the network/server paths to the files. I got tired of it.

Then I found that ROKU has a "Media Center" app -- for movies, soundtracks or MP3 files, and the photo collection. Not as elegant in appearance as the Android TV app, but works just fine. I'm going to search for another TV media-center app and try it -- like Emby or Jellyfin (?).

 

[Tech Junky]

I use Plex and paid for the lifetime pass that gives you the extra perks. They have a sale for $99 IIRC.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Yeah, I would check on that the files that play are actually encrypted. As previously mentioned, depending on the flag present on the channel, the show could be playable anywhere, only on the specific hardware, or not record-able. This was why I went with SageTV as everything it recorded was unencrypted (still have it, but I need to integrate a new guide system into it and get it working with the new set-top-box IR codes).

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I was going to add a new thread, but I will post my latest question here first of all, since I've laid down all the background about my Sony Bravia and my movie DVR files on my network.

First frustrating observation: I can install the KODI Android app on my Sony Bravia, and configure the app's network access to my video and audio files. At first, this is all great, and KODI appears to work perfectly throughout the day. Then, at some point, I might leave the app and go to my YouTube TV app. Then, the next day I'll come back to Kodi, attempt to load it, and it hangs. Nothing more can be done, but this: It must be uninstalled from my Sony, then reinstalled and reconfigured. After that, it works again -- for about a day or so, and the cycle repeats itself.

Sensing that the KODI app is unreliable on my Android TV (for some reason), I discovered that ROKU -- also connected to the Sony Bravia and my network -- has its own Media Player app, for movie or video files and audio. The ROKU app doesn't fail.

HOWEVER. I discovered, after running the ROKU Media App, that my home server which stores the DVR movies, videos and audio -- shows 100% CPU usage and the fans running at top speed, after I've watched a movie with the ROKU app connected via my LAN. Going to the server (now call it a "media server"), the culprit seems to be a process called ffmpeg.exe, described by some online sources as a renderer or converter for video files.

I can resolve this by simply circumventing the ROKU + Sony or the Sony directly from grabbing the media files from the server/PC and simply playing the files directly on the PC, with output to the Sony Bravia through the latter's HDMI port (there are three other connections, so this would consume the only available HDMI input remaining.

Even so. What is going on with the KODI app and the ROKU media app? Can it be fixed?

 

[Tech Junky]

ffmpeg.exe

It's transcoding the files for playback on the Roku because Roku isn't robust when it comes to some file types and codecs.

Plex handles things better and if your not needing the guide for ota then it's free.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It's transcoding the files for playback on the Roku because Roku isn't robust when it comes to some file types and codecs.

Plex handles things better and if your not needing the guide for ota then it's free.

I have a vague suspicion. Not knowing enough about how the industry pursues DRM in seeming parsimony for controlling private user possession and playing of "recorded" or "ripped" media, I suspect that they do everything they can to make it difficult to build a media juke-box with a PC.

I could suspect that Sony does something between making my Smart TV, and "examining" content that I play on it. Thus they might be able to distinguish between a disc played on my Sony BD player to the TV and an ISO or MPG that I've ripped to a disk -- connected to a computer.

I've had progress and luck that is extensive enough so that I won't give up my efforts to build this Juke-Box. There are two Android players available on the Bravia that I've managed to use successfully so far: the one that loads with all the other default Sony/GoogleTV/Android apps, and VLC, which I have to seek out through the Google Play app. The former player will play some of my recorded content, but seems to block most of my DVR recordings (over 15 years, so I won't give up). But it won't play all of it. VLC will pretty much play all the content I've loaded on my "new" media server and synching backup file server.

I've discovered that some apps -- programs -- that run under Windows will play ISOs as well as digitized file formats, but the ISOs must be played on the computer with the optical drive from which the ISO was ripped. Otherwise, it will raise an error through the software that explains that "the region code does not match" the one selected, showing that you "selected" the "USA/Canada" region code.

I call my efforts successful so far in that I can use the TV's Smart features to play almost all of my captured content, and grab the files over my household LAN. For the problem of being unable to play ISOs, the solution is to rip the ISOs from a BD burner/player in the PC where they must be played. Then, a program like Cyberlink PowerDVD will play the ISOs and all other material.

I cannot see how I run into trouble (technically -- not legally) for configuring the HTPC for serving content over the network to the Sony, and also configuring it to play the content as local files and inputting the audio and video via HDMI to a Sony Bravia HDMI input port.

The learning experience in dealing with one's personal preferences to have a media jukebox not dependent on streaming subscriptions which has a capability of playing ripped optical discs has some speed bumps. The reason that so many freeware ripping programs exist derives from legal rulings that purchasers of digital content media like optical discs have a right to back up their "investment". The ability to rip a disc depends on when it was released, or -- one might be able to extract the video content, but it requires exploring additional material which might be a sequential equal to the initial ripped result. The most reliable way of digitizing an OD may be creation of ISO, but one then can run into problems with that as well.

I would bet that MicroSoft's decision to end support for Media Center resulted from pressure applied by the Jack Valenti media Nazis. Users could acquire a limitless supply of movie DVRs, even if they could only play it on the PC which created it.

 

[Tech Junky]

Let's put it this way. I've used several streamer boxes with the same source drives and files.

Streaming direct from a TCL TV works great with no additional overhead in native format even 4k.

Google / Roku both tend to have issues with 4k files and transcode on the fly.

My no name box does 4k just fine.

My 4k laser projector does everything fine as well.

Lesson here is not all devices have the resources to do things smoothly in native formats. The $25 no name box does better than the $50 name brand boxes. Native streaming from inclusive devices that have the CPU and RAM perform better than add on ott boxes.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I think MS got out of media center because they wanted their Xbox systems to be their media hubs, and not someone using a computer. They saw that computer as a direct threat to the Xbox since the computer could be more powerful and flexible and since it was not their complete walled garden, they would lose out on things like subscriptions for online gaming services if people decided that it was better to have a HTPC that could also support PC gaming.

 

[A///]

I think MS got out of media center because they wanted their Xbox systems to be their media hubs, and not someone using a computer. They saw that computer as a direct threat to the Xbox since the computer could be more powerful and flexible and since it was not their complete walled garden, they would lose out on things like subscriptions for online gaming services if people decided that it was better to have a HTPC that could also support PC gaming.

that and most providers began true encyrpting their cable so all those happuage diddy units that came with prebuilt comps be dead weight sooner or later. there are manufactured decoder bypassed gizmos on the market but not legal. when streaming and subscriptions became mainstream to do from online it made sense to close down the media center part of their biz and go with what you said. couldn't tell you if anyone uses those physica legal cards or usb devices anymore these days. Before my ex and I got married we lived together for a few years and I remember buying a separate agp or pci 1.0 card to watch tv at the computer back before digital settops were common and it was a basic cable box. a $5 rca splitter helped split the incoming signal and I could watch a film or two on friday nights without waking her up using headphones of the era. back then ppv still worked without individual purchases and of course not to forget the adult channels were blocked by a pin I'd set back then. sleeping or out of the flat it was nice to watch some adult cinema then because the only internet we had at the time living together was dial up and it was painful to use for that kind of material.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I still can record without much issue through HDMI and one of the happauge HD PVR 2 game edition plus(I think?). I do have a splitter (obviously you have to in order to get the signal to TV/receiver and the capture device). Still using SageTV (what's left of it) that was open sourced since it will record without DRM embedded into the recordings. It isn't the fanciest of interfaces, but it works fine. And if I really care, I can always use a different front end to view the recordings like Media Portal or Kodi.

The benefits of my setup is that I get any channel I can view, any pay-per-view, any on-demand, heck even any third party app that plays via my set top box like Disney+, Netflix, or Amazon Prime. Sure I can't schedule recording those, but I can just do a manual recording of the show like you had to do back in the day with a VCR, or DVD-RAM recorder. This way if they decide to delete a show or series, that I liked and watched, I may still have the benefit of watching... There are a few series that I wish I had just set to binge watch and hit record while I went to work or slept (and I could just go back and cut/edit to the individual episodes).

 

[A///]

I still can record without much issue through HDMI and one of the happauge HD PVR 2 game edition plus(I think?). I do have a splitter (obviously you have to in order to get the signal to TV/receiver and the capture device).

I figure as much because there has to be a way lesser fortuned pirates can magically get the shows or films out within a few days with crystal clarity.

I'm not familiar with sage. I vaguely know of cody but I've been using plex on and off for years. to memory it hasn't changed significantly since I began using it when it came out. I was an early donator to the project! prior to that I used xbmc which got the job done. although I remember the ui being a right pain in the bum.

One of my old retired coworkers used to do something similar for his and his wife's enjoyment using a scheduling software he'd developed on his home server to do all that and digitally select what he had set up. It's been 9 years since I've spoken to him but I'm sure it can be done if you have the means and the boredom to do it.

 

[Fallen Kell]

SageTV was a very good alternate to WMC. It was originally a license product (but fairly cheap, something like $40-50, which included program data/guide info as a one time price for the major versions, and upgrade costs were like $10, which basically covered the cost for the program data/guide). And like I said, SageTV refused to bow to the media companies and DRM the recordings, locking it into the single device it was recorded on. SageTV's stance was that you should be able to record it and transfer your shows to a laptop, tablet, or phone (like say you are going to be stuck in a plane which didn't have internet at the time, you could at least have your own shows that you recorded to watch) and wanted everything to be completely open so you could re-encode the old recordings later as newer compression methods came out.

Google bought SageTV as they were looking at building their own TV/DVR service at the time (this is where Google/Android TV started in smart TV's). Google eventually let the original developers open source the SageTV code since they were not going to produce a DVR (I think they felt they had enough problems with anti-trust and didn't want to get the MPAA also yelling for their heads by letting people record video from the TV, which is just insane to me, because in Japan Sony and most of the major electronics companies let you do just that, but the media companies in the USA are completely against that functionality existing).