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WHAT THE EFF!!?? NC considering paying students for good grades

NFS4

No Lifer
I'm at a loss for words... really? The Pussification of America continues

georgecarlin3.jpg


RALEIGH, N.C. — Nine-year-old Samantha Hubbard's eyes popped open for an instant as the thought flashed through her mind.

Would she study harder if North Carolina offered to pay her $1,000 a year from kindergarten through high-school graduation if she came to class, behaved, and earned good grades?

It's a reach beyond rewards like gold stars and pizza parties. But dangling cash rewards could be the cheapest and most effective motivator to raise test scores and lower dropout rates, said Sen. Fletcher Hartsell, R-Cabarrus, who is proposing the idea in legislation awaiting a committee hearing. If the money is paid to parents, that could get them more involved in helping their children succeed, he said.

"I think it's good. I think you should give the money to kids," said Samantha, the mention of a new bicycle in her ears.

Her parents weren't impressed.

"I think it's a bad idea. Even if the money went to me. I think that's a worse idea, for it to go to the parents. I think if you're going to do it it's going to have to go to the kids when they graduate," said Vanessa Hubbard, who with her husband David chaperoned their daughter's Archdale Elementary School class on a visit to the state museums in Raleigh. "No, our tax money shouldn't pay to motivate them as a parent."

But she pictured the effect a potential reward might have on Samantha.

"She would get us to help her to study harder so that she could get her money. That's how it would work," Vanessa Hubbard said.

Whether the motivation springs from a child or from parents who start helping with homework, showing up at teacher conferences, or just prepping their youngster to meet the morning school bell on time, cash rewards might be worth a try, Hartsell said.

"We've tried a lot of other things. Cash incentives sometimes work," he said. "We create incentives for all kinds of other activities, primarily business. But why not this?"

Hartsell and co-sponsor Sen. Eric Mansfield, D-Cumberland, want to take their time looking at the pros and cons.

The first step is the General Assembly starting a two-year study of whether the state should offer student incentives, and whether a payout most motivates students, parents or teachers. The initial idea is to explore offering cash to each of the state's 1.4 million public school students from K-12 that meet certain goals. Taking it slow would allow the public to decide whether they like or hate the idea, Hartsell said.

A statewide student rewards program would be a bold expansion beyond the experimenting that's been going on for years in local school districts.

Baltimore, New York City, Chicago, Houston, and Fulton County, Ga., have been testing programs that pay for learning. A technology entrepreneur started offering $250 checks in 2004 to high school students who excel in academics, community service, and attendance. The Challenge Program is now in 125 schools in Pennsylvania, Delaware, and West Virginia.

Research in a field merging economics and education suggests that offering rewards can work, but don't always improve results.

A Stanford study of 250 charter schools in 17 states found that cash, MP3 players, or other gifts appears to improve reading skills. Students in Coshocton, Ohio, who were given cash if they performed well on state achievement tests did somewhat better in math, but not in reading. A Harvard study of more than 250 urban schools in Dallas, Chicago, New York City, and Washington, D.C., found that financial rewards worked better if they were tied not to results such as grades and test scores but to short-term behaviors like reading books and daily attendance.

"Incentives work but only when rationally designed, consistently applied and universally supported by those in charge of using the system," said Margaret Raymond, who authored the Stanford study. She said it may be too hard to legislate those conditions across a state, and more reasonable to leave local school systems to adapt to local conditions.

Duke University public policy and economics William Darity thinks paying kids for grades is a distraction from the more important task of insuring that all receive a high-quality instruction.

"I am convinced that we need to change the content of what kids are taught not necessarily change the kids," he said.

Chris Campbell of Archdale is also skeptical about paying kids to learn when there are so many other needs. He's concerned public schools are falling behind the rest of the world in math, science and the use of technology.

"I could see both sides of it — being a good idea to motivate, for the student to want to learn more or better. But also, at the same time, I think money could be better spent in the schools," said Campbell, who was on the same school field trip as the Hubbards.

His 10-year-old daughter Karmen doubts a payoff could get her to work any harder.

"I'd just keep doing the same thing," she said. "I want to finish school. Get it over with."

http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/9420913/
 
I have one question: who's going to pay for it?

What's next - paying people to wipe their ass?

I have no friggin' idea. They're already talking about laying off teachers and cutting teaching assistants, yet they want to PAY kids for doing what they SHOULD be striving for anyway?

Total bullshit.
 
I have one question: who's going to pay for it?

What's next - paying people to wipe their ass?

Dude, you don't have to worry about anything, putting gas in your car or paying your mortgage, etc. President Obama's gonna take care of you.
 
I have no problem with it, AS long as the money is only good at NC state colleges.

i.e. you can supply the carrot and the money still stays in state.
 
I have no problem with it, AS long as the money is only good at NC state colleges.

i.e. you can supply the carrot and the money still stays in state.
Thats what I was thinking, BUT, if it doesnt get shut down in the first year then god forbid other states may start to consider it.
 
First, using the phrase "pussification of America" has only ever made anyone look like a dickscarf, and always makes you look like a bigger idiot than whatever you're ranting about.

As for the actual topic, meh. If it works, use it. I'm getting tired of people whining about anything that's different from their childhood or what they think is the best method for doing something.

Lastly, um, you do realize this is actually already happening? Ever heard of a scholarship? This is also the major point of college.
 
I think it is a good idea. It gives kids an immediate incentive to study and do well. If you think how much money is spent on other educational programs, maybe just directly rewarding the most important aspect of an education (a student's hard work) makes the most sense.

Yes they should be doing it anyways, they don't deserve the money, etc. But practically I think this idea could work.
 
First, using the phrase "pussification of America" has only ever made anyone look like a dickscarf, and always makes you look like a bigger idiot than whatever you're ranting about.

As for the actual topic, meh. If it works, use it. I'm getting tired of people whining about anything that's different from their childhood or what they think is the best method for doing something.

Lastly, um, you do realize this is actually already happening? Ever heard of a scholarship? This is also the major point of college.

If you think getting a scholarship to go to a higher education is even close to the same thing as being paid cash to do what your are fucking supposed to do, then I am willing to bet you never earned either of those in your life.
And you need to stop using so many straw man arguments. Nobody here said it sucks just cuz its different. They said it sucks cuz its god damn retarded.
And this is absolutely the best example of american pussification. Its telling already spoiled American kids they get to be even more spoiled by acquiring treats for doing what they already needed to be doing.
 
I think it is a good idea. It gives kids an immediate incentive to study and do well. If you think how much money is spent on other educational programs, maybe just directly rewarding the most important aspect of an education (a student's hard work) makes the most sense.

Yes they should be doing it anyways, they don't deserve the money, etc. But practically I think this idea could work.

We as a state are fucking broke. We don't have the money for these programs. Teachers are being let go, school athletics are being killed off, class sizes are going way up, teacher pay has been frozen for at least two years now.
 
First, using the phrase "pussification of America" has only ever made anyone look like a dickscarf, and always makes you look like a bigger idiot than whatever you're ranting about.

As for the actual topic, meh. If it works, use it. I'm getting tired of people whining about anything that's different from their childhood or what they think is the best method for doing something.

Lastly, um, you do realize this is actually already happening? Ever heard of a scholarship? This is also the major point of college.

How is a scholarship even close to being the same thing? A scholarship is given for someone that has built up a good academic career over the grade school years (or in the case of some scholarships, community service, etc.) -- and even then, it's not guaranteed that all of your hard work will even get you a scholarship in the first place.

With this program, the carrot is dangled in front of your face from the very get go. It appears to be guaranteed money just for doing shit you should have already been doing. Straight up cash to use for anything -- not strictly for use on something education related (i.e. college tuition like a scholarship).
 
Can you take the money from a merit scholarship and do whatever you want with it?

This is straight cash paid to students/parents from K-12 that can be used for anything.

I think so. I've applied for a couple of scholarships outside of direct school related ones and the few that I got were just checks.
 
I actually am not that against this. What, children aren't people too? They're going to school to one day contribute to society. Monetary incentive, especially since later in life it's a HUGE part of our lives, would probably be a good thing as long as it was REASONABLE. Base it on merit, just like a job, and pay it into a savings account for the child every year until they graduate. It could be used to help pay for their college or whatever the fuck they want to use it on. Treating school more like a job would probably help prepare our youth for their future better than our current system is doing.
 
Can you take the money from a merit scholarship and do whatever you want with it?

This is straight cash paid to students/parents from K-12 that can be used for anything.

Yep, some of them are straight up checks. It's usually need based scholarships that are automatically deposited into your college tuition account.
 
If you think getting a scholarship to go to a higher education is even close to the same thing as being paid cash to do what your are fucking supposed to do, then I am willing to bet you never earned either of those in your life.
And you need to stop using so many straw man arguments. Nobody here said it sucks just cuz its different. They said it sucks cuz its god damn retarded.
And this is absolutely the best example of american pussification. Its telling already spoiled American kids they get to be even more spoiled by acquiring treats for doing what they already needed to be doing.

You're right, they're not the same, but they're certainly similar. You sure as hell won't be getting scholarships if you don't do your homework, and likewise, you're not going to get accepted into college without some evidence that you can do your work, which in turn is subsidized by the government, but yeah, not even close to being the same. Likewise, you do well in college and, surprise, you get better scholarships, and often can even get better jobs (especially internships), which, hmm, interestingly pays more money.

I don't agree that this is something they should be doing any way. Plenty of homework is basically pointless. If you build a system around something stupid (lot's of monotonous homework that rarely makes you actually think), should it be a surprise that its difficult to motivate people to do it? Paying them to do it is probably the best preparation most of these kids will get for the real world (since it mimics most real world jobs), and this will help some actually have an opportunity to get beyond that.

So many straw man arguments? As opposed to no real argument other than "its god damn retarded"? Its not my fault that you can't understand that this is clearly already ingrained into schooling (namely because this is already ingrained into life). But, yeah, you're right, they should spend the money on junk toys and parties instead.

How is a scholarship even close to being the same thing? A scholarship is given for someone that has built up a good academic career over the grade school years (or in the case of some scholarships, community service, etc.) -- and even then, it's not guaranteed that all of your hard work will even get you a scholarship in the first place.

With this program, the carrot is dangled in front of your face from the very get go. It appears to be guaranteed money just for doing shit you should have already been doing. Straight up cash to use for anything -- not strictly for use on something education related (i.e. college tuition like a scholarship).

See above.

I'm not saying this won't fail or is a good thing, but just saying its a failure before its even attempted is just stupid. Plus, without knowing the exact details, which quite frankly that article is very light on, I think its ignorant as hell to get all bent out of shape and have knee jerk reactions.

The carrot is dangled in front of you before you're ever in school, and this really is just simplifying things to what is already the standard basic unit in our society: money. I prefer that over stickers and other stupid crap that's been used in schools forever already.

I don't even really agree with this method, as I think they'd be better served doing something else, but I wouldn't be surprised if it worked, quite well. Often times, the earlier you apply a method, the better the people will be about it later on. This might actually get some parents and kids used to something like this, so that when they do scholarships, they're more prepared.
 
"rewarding good behavior" as opposed to "punishing bad behavior" seems to work psychologically 🙂
 
How is a scholarship even close to being the same thing? A scholarship is given for someone that has built up a good academic career over the grade school years (or in the case of some scholarships, community service, etc.) -- and even then, it's not guaranteed that all of your hard work will even get you a scholarship in the first place.

With this program, the carrot is dangled in front of your face from the very get go. It appears to be guaranteed money just for doing shit you should have already been doing. Straight up cash to use for anything -- not strictly for use on something education related (i.e. college tuition like a scholarship).

I think he's basing that argument over the position of: if it is used to fund in-state tuition, then it's fine.

I honestly don't see a problem with that. Plenty of scholarships are purely academic-based. It's just more money for school.

But yeah--who's gonna pay? sounds like crazysauce to me.
 
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