What the Dems Stand for.

[imported_Condor]

Dopes and dope!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Trust me, I'm not naive enough to believe that our (US) two party system will ever work together. But the dems can certainly put forth other options. We do have a media here. The dems are allowed to go on TV and propose alternatives to what the republicans are doing. They have the opportunity to try to win people to their side with a positive message about what they think needs to be done and how they intend to do it. That's how the republicans did it.

Sadly, they choose the obstructionist rout which does nothing to advance the debate on things like social security, border protection, terrorism.... etc. What we are left with is the republican agenda and the anti-republican agenda. What we need is a republican agenda AND a democrat agenda.

If the dems want to get back in power they need to advance their agenda. People get excited about being able to contrast and choose between opposing views. It's hard to get people excited about an anti- agenda. And that is the boat the dems find themselves in right now.

Not a bad post but this is not possible when the Republican party is an entire operation of Lies and the sheeple have bought hook, line and sinker.

The Country will not survive unless the sheeple wake up to the lies.

Brainwashing is powerful and completely successful, this was proven in Europe less than 100 years ago and we are repeating it again.

While it is not exactly the same (minus the human ethnic cleansing factor), the corrupt business and political practice factor is the same.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Moonsabie
Topic Title: What the Dems Stand for.
Topic Summary: they stand for something?!

Most Dems that are left have to be anti-church and not easily brainwashed.

That's a difficult task and dwindling number in today's environment against such a vast money backed political agenda machine the Republicans have put together with buying control of the media.

Dems are pretty much anyone that still wants America to be the once mighty, free and proud Country it once was up until the turn of this Century.

Whether they can wake up enough sheeple and save it is another story.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Trust me, I'm not naive enough to believe that our (US) two party system will ever work together. But the dems can certainly put forth other options. We do have a media here. The dems are allowed to go on TV and propose alternatives to what the republicans are doing. They have the opportunity to try to win people to their side with a positive message about what they think needs to be done and how they intend to do it. That's how the republicans did it.

Sadly, they choose the obstructionist rout which does nothing to advance the debate on things like social security, border protection, terrorism.... etc. What we are left with is the republican agenda and the anti-republican agenda. What we need is a republican agenda AND a democrat agenda.

If the dems want to get back in power they need to advance their agenda. People get excited about being able to contrast and choose between opposing views. It's hard to get people excited about an anti- agenda. And that is the boat the dems find themselves in right now.

Ya know....you are almost onto something while at the same time, being miles away from the obvious.

First off, what you are almost onto. The Dems need to do a better job of getting the media to cite what their plans, as listed in their agenda, are. How do they do this? This is the tricky part because of the majority party's stronghold on all of Congress and the White House. I think that Dean is getting it started by being everywhere he can and getting airtime on the talk shows and in the papers. He just needs to be able to control the rhetoric and promote the agenda.

And he needs to be able to control himself... I won't get into a Dean quotefest but there's a reason he bombed in Iowa.

Right now, it seems that they are only standing for bashing the Repubs at every corner. This isn't true, but the perception is definately that. Reasons:

1. It makes for better stories for the press

2. They are the minority party and have very little, if any, say in what issues get addressed or promoted

3. Politics has taken a very sharp turn toward the falls and the barrell it is in doesn't look too sturdy. What I mean by that is, the Repubs perfected the art of framing issues and going after the Dems with both barrels cocked and ready to fire. The Dems are still recouping from that a little and are firing back, but haven't been able to really frame the issues properly yet.

4. The opposition has to be very critical of the majority party to be able to show what mistakes are being made and how they will be exacerbated if the majority party continues to be the majority party. This is how the Repubs got control in 1994.

No. Without the contract, republicans had nothing. In fact, without the contract the republicans of the early 90's were little more than the dems are now. Granted, Clinton didn't do himself any favors with his behavior but the Republicans didn't win the congress just by being critical of his administration. They put out an alternative plan, not a platform, not issue positions, a plan.

The things that you are off by miles on:

1. Dems are doing nothing but obstructing. If you would actually look at what has transpired since 2000, Bush has gotten 99% of his nominees appointed (judges and cabinet members).

If you look at the appelate court appointments (one step from the SCOTUS) that number takes a nosedive. All the low-level judges were approved without question because they don't really matter much in the grand scheme of things. Appelate judges are where the dems have been obstructionist and if you look at those percentages you'll see that Dubbya hasn't been getting a fair shake.

2. The debate on SS was never a debate. Bush stated that he wanted private accounts. Period. How was there a debate? The dems did just what you are accusing them of not doing, they didn't think that was the direction to go, came up with alternatives which the WH completely snubbed and Bush went on a cross-country promotion and couldn't sell his snake oil.

What alternatives did they come up with? What I saw (just speaking as one of the great unwashed here) was dems pusing the status quo with a little tweak here and a little tweak there but otherwise saying that there isn't a "crisis" and that Dubbya's statement of SS going into deficit by '17 was overblown rhetoric... The stock market is dangerous... People are too dumb to manage their own money...

3. The Repubs gained control because they had a plan. Bullsh*t. They gained control because they were able to make things like abortion, gun control and Christianity issues when they are not. There was also a lot of apathetic young voters that didn't turn out. that is why the Repubs were able to gain control. They were able to energize the "religious right" through scare tactics while those that normally vote Dem stayed at home on election day.

These were the issues the reps were pounding on in '94. No guns, no christianity, just common sense and people responded to it in a very positive way. I'll be the first to say that the republicans seem to have lost their way since then but that contract was the catalyst for what happened in '94.

Your hero, from the way that you have mentioned him here and in other threads, Newt was on tv almost everyday criticizing Clinton and the Dems. And you want to talk about obstructionism, do you happen to be old enough to remember that the Republicans shut down the government because they didn't like what Clinton was proposing? Has that happened under Shrub? NO.

Yes I'm old enough to remember. That was the budget squabble. The reps were trying to force a smaller budget on Clinton. Clinton refused and the fight was on. It's hard to compare then with now though. Then the reps controlled the house and the dems controlled the presidency. Now is reps in both seats. The dems can't shut down the government by blocking the budget. They won't anyway because:

1) They saw what happened when the reps did it. It was a political blunder on their part.
2) The dems aren't interested in spending less and Dubbya doesn't seemto be either so why block?

If you noticed this past election cycle, the Democratic base was out almost as strongly as the Republican base.

Almost? They looked pretty fired up to me. I can still remember several times watching some random democrat on the news saying "I'd vote for (my dog, mickey mouse, etc...) rather than Dubbya". I wish I could find this quote, but some pundit said "You could run a cardboard cut out against Bush and it would get 40% of the vote." The dem base was out in force.

I am predicting that that trend will continue because the Democrats HAVE been able to energize their base also. That they have shown, through the critical observations about the current congress and administration, that their agenda is one that will move this country further, faster. And Dean is doing a great job of this so far by being out in front of the voters and cameras as much as he can. McCaulligh (sp) wasn't seen or heard from until 6 months before the elections. Dean isn't making that same mistake.

This next election isn't going to be about the party bases. They are solid on both sides. This is going to be about that middle 20% of voters. The conservative dems, the liberal reps and the moderates. And this is the whole point I was trying to make earlier: The dems need a positive messge. It's not enough to poke holes in the current administration, block legislation and point out the failings of current policy. If they don't present an alternative plan... If they don't say "elect us and we will do this, this and this" then the whole thing is up to the republicans to lose.

 

[rustynails]

Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.democrats.org/agenda.html

You got to love conjur-gals visitaion links. This on is perfect, especially the part about "expanding opportunity for every American"; and then you look up and see 5 token white people.

Oh wait, i think thats a little mexican girl, I could be wrong, its hard to say.

~n

 

[cwgannon]

Originally posted by: rustynails

Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.democrats.org/agenda.html

You got to love conjur-gals visitaion links. This on is perfect, especially the part about "expanding opportunity for every American"; and then you look up and see 5 token white people.

Oh wait, i think thats a little mexican girl, I could be wrong, its hard to say.

~n

Oh. Clever.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I despise the Republicans, but I don't think the Democrats are any better.

Do the Democrats stand for an end to mass immigration, both legal and illegal, which increases the nation's population, increasing the cost of real estate and straining the environment, not to mention the direct economic costs (health care, education, displacement of Americans from jobs etc.)? No. Of course the Democrats aren't going to come out and oppose it (even though it's probably a political winner) because they are altruists and don't have the rational selfish economic concerns of Americans at heart.

Will the Democrats come out and oppose foreign outsourcing and global labor wage arbitrage? Will they oppose the H-1B, L-1, and Trade Nafta (TN) work visas that are being used to displace Americans from otherwise middle class jobs? No.

So what exactly do these guys stand for? Any party can say that it supports the working class and the middle class, but if it doesn't advocate the kinds of policies that would be beneficial for those classes then what good are they?

The Democrats stand for and are nothing. They are no better than the Republicans.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

I despise the Republicans, but I don't think the Democrats are any better.

Do the Democrats stand for an end to mass immigration, both legal and illegal, which increases the nation's population, increasing the cost of real estate and straining the environment, not to mention the direct economic costs (health care, education, displacement of Americans from jobs etc.)? No. Of course the Democrats aren't going to come out and oppose it (even though it's probably a political winner) because they are altruists and don't have the rational selfish economic concerns of Americans at heart.

Will the Democrats come out and oppose foreign outsourcing and global labor wage arbitrage? Will they oppose the H-1B, L-1, and Trade Nafta (TN) work visas that are being used to displace Americans from otherwise middle class jobs? No.

So what exactly do these guys stand for? Any party can say that it supports the working class and the middle class, but if it doesn't advocate the kinds of policies that would be beneficial for those classes then what good are they?

The Democrats stand for and are nothing. They are no better than the Republicans.

I'm neither Democrat or Republican, I am an American.

I would absolutely stop the mass illegal immigration.

I also would stop the foreign outsourcing and global labor wage arbitrage as well as the H-1B, L-1, and Trade Nafta (TN) work visas that are being used to displace Americans from otherwise middle class jobs.

People have seen what I have said here. If a Compnay claims to be an American Company they better have Americans employed here otherwise I would force them to leave by giving up their American Corporate Charter.

For example, I bought a Oar for my boat recently, It had large letters that it was a Company basde in Tampa Florida complete with a Web address, then in small almost unreadable letters was Made In China on the other side.

Elect me and that Company, if it has no employees here other than Corp Execs, they get the boot out of here.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

DMCowen, maybe we should start a new political party?

 

[thegimp03]

Happy to see the tree hugging libs can't reconcile their differences (i.e. the wackos vs moderates). Spending more time trying to devise means of attacking right-wingers and spewing out propaganda in the media means more wins for the Republicans!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: thegimp03
Happy to see the tree hugging libs can't reconcile their differences (i.e. the wackos vs moderates). Spending more time trying to devise means of attacking right-wingers and spewing out propaganda in the media means more wins for the Republicans!

A perfect opportunity for you and your kind to impose your will on all others!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

I despise the Republicans, but I don't think the Democrats are any better.

Do the Democrats stand for an end to mass immigration, both legal and illegal, which increases the nation's population, increasing the cost of real estate and straining the environment, not to mention the direct economic costs (health care, education, displacement of Americans from jobs etc.)? No. Of course the Democrats aren't going to come out and oppose it (even though it's probably a political winner) because they are altruists and don't have the rational selfish economic concerns of Americans at heart.

Will the Democrats come out and oppose foreign outsourcing and global labor wage arbitrage? Will they oppose the H-1B, L-1, and Trade Nafta (TN) work visas that are being used to displace Americans from otherwise middle class jobs? No.

So what exactly do these guys stand for? Any party can say that it supports the working class and the middle class, but if it doesn't advocate the kinds of policies that would be beneficial for those classes then what good are they?

The Democrats stand for and are nothing. They are no better than the Republicans.

I'm neither Democrat or Republican, I am an American.

I would absolutely stop the mass illegal immigration.

I also would stop the foreign outsourcing and global labor wage arbitrage as well as the H-1B, L-1, and Trade Nafta (TN) work visas that are being used to displace Americans from otherwise middle class jobs.

People have seen what I have said here. If a Compnay claims to be an American Company they better have Americans employed here otherwise I would force them to leave by giving up their American Corporate Charter.

For example, I bought a Oar for my boat recently, It had large letters that it was a Company basde in Tampa Florida complete with a Web address, then in small almost unreadable letters was Made In China on the other side.

Elect me and that Company, if it has no employees here other than Corp Execs, they get the boot out of here.

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

DMCowen, maybe we should start a new political party?

If the new Party had any chance of winning an Election, hell yes.

Unfortunately the Corporations and Church own the two Parties making them just factions of one huge Club.