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What temperatures...?? my computer is !jacked- *potentially solved for now* (gotta wait though)

S

SHoddyCOmp

Platinum Member
........................summary at the bottom...

Ok, im gonna be on my 3rd cpu in a week or so about...yes 3. By the way, this isnt within a few years time, this all started when i ORDERED the original stuff some time in early JUNE. Heres the problem that so far me and a friend have looked into, either obviously its my cpu hsf or my motherboard. I have (had) a XP 2100+ running with a Volcano 7+ and a Gigabyte GA-7VRXP. Now please bear with me if it gets confusing but we started swapping a bunch of stuff around. He has some cheapie shuttle board and a Volcano 7 (not the 7+ like mine) and a XP 1700+. There is the background of what we've got, a little of it anyway.

SOoo...The first Ga-7VRXP i had was just the r1.1 version without the protection and internal diode reading, that just toasted the cpu no time flat. Never even friggin booted. Fast forward a bit and now i have a GA-7VRXP r2.0 board that reads the internal diode in the cpu and will shut it off supposedly when it gets too hot and is at risk of damaging the cpu. It did that fine, but not all the time. It would shut off if it got REALLY REALLY hot but it always was quite hot anyway. By that i mean Sandra read the bios at 81c idle from the bios. Thats pretty damn hot there, never read lower than that.

On labor day i decided to drive to SF (I live just a bit north) to his house and just fiddle around with our computers and see what the heck could be a weak link in mine. My 2nd one had already made burn marks on the packaging of the cpu around the core and it was getting incredibly annoying. It would crash in CS every 10 minutes and fail to boot half the time. Assume I have installed everything perfectly, which i believe i have.........

This is what we did to them at his house, out of order of events im sure but most of the information is here.

First, we booted his computer up and looked at the temperatures, they were perfectly normal. Shut it down and took the heat sink off of my computer and replaced his and checked the temperature. It was quite a bit higher. Say, atleast 10c according to the digidoc probe untouched between the swaps. Ok, his fan cools better than mine. Thats one thing, but thats sort of odd, his is just the 7 with one of those cheap clear fans with the LEDS from SVCompucycle and ive got the 7+ with that fan that came on it, which pushes more air, too. "uhhhh, *scrathes head..* OoooKk....".

After that we took my cpu, (that by the way didnt work with EITHER heat sink on my computer, it would just simply shut itself off from the heat in about 10 seconds.) and put it into his computer with his heatsink. It wasnt very stable at all as it had been burned already a bit, so we turned down the FSB quite a bit and it ran cooler than it did on my motherboard, actually a LOT cooler, it was almost as cool as his cpu with his fan. I dont remember if i had put on my heat sink too to test the temperatures but logic would tell me it ran like an oven.

As the previous 'experiment' suggested my motherboard ran my cpu hotter than normal anyway we decided that it would be nice to see what his 1700 would do on my motherboard, with both heat sinks. First was my heat sink, it ran just as hot as mine that took a crap (81c according to speedfan and sandra), it didnt immediatley, so that is why his 1700 survived, but we knew it wasnt lying about those temperatures so we shut it off. Now we assume even more my gigabyte board runs everything hot, because if the temps were really the same and my board was reading that temperature, his cpu would have toasted on his computer a long time ago as well. Next up was his heat sink, so we tried that and it still read just about around in the same temperature range. Thats no good. His cpu survived the day since it had only been at those temperatures for a short period of time, but before we were completely done we smelled the tell tale electric burning from my core with my hsf in his computer..it was zapped, big time, it reeked. #2 down. Ohh i wasnt a happy camper, no more cs! (actually i can play now again because we later went to CUSA in San Bruno and i got a GF4 MX 420.....no AGP in my eMachine....i get about 200 fps though, playable).


wow thats long...
*************
SUMMARY
My 3rd cpu soon, motehrboard runs both my friends and my cpus hot as hell, think 81, and my heat sink and fan runs them hotter too even though i have a "better" one. I have a GA-7VRXP and a Volcano 7+ and he has some shuttle board and a Volcano 7 with a slow moving fan on it. My CPU wouldnt boot at all on my computer with either fan. It would boot on his computer at almost normal temps with his fan after it was underclocked a bit so it wouldnt crap out because it had already been burnt a bit. My fan made it run hotter. His computer with his cpu and his fan is perfectly fine. Same thing with my fan runs hotter. His cpu on my computer, whether it had my fan or his fan on it it ran hot. *Very* hot.
**************

SO, why did i post this message? I want to know what some ideas of you people out there have besides 'you suck, and you cant assemble a computer worth a damn' well, id love to say i dont know how, because it sure sounds like it, but when i put his together like mine, it runs fine, when mine runs, it runs hot, k? Anyway. Do any of you maybe have the same motherboard, or hsf as either one of us and like to share some temps (preferably from the internal diode, thats what the 81 is from)? I probably will be getting a volcano 9 or an AX-7 and using a Tt smartfan 2 with it and hope that cools as well as his cools or better, and i really have no idea what the heck is going on with my motherboard, anybody with the same board, i know its in the cpu forum but what temps are you getting from the diode reading? Im really worried about killing off my 3rd one too, and i reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllly dont want some computer-stupid compusa guy to do it for 100 bux just so i can come back and say look it fried and now replace the parts, because it would just be MORE time, and MORE money even though the parts should be on them if they go out again. I know how to put a computer together that works fine. Im just having crap luck. Has anybody had that sort of experience that the motherboars themselves make the cpu run at disgustingly different temperatures?

I dont know, Im just asking for anything at this point. Im quickly runnin out of money on this ordeal.
 
Wow, good thing I read fast 😀 Ok, don't smack me for stating the obvious, but it sounds like there is some kind of systematic problem causing poor thermal transfer between the CPU and the heatsink. Lemme run by you some of the obvious-est possibilities:

  • Heatsink installed 180 degrees backwards. There is one right orientation and one wrong one, and the wrong one would explain the crazy temperatures. The end of the heatsink which has a step cut into its base MUST be at the end of the CPU socket that the lever swivels in. Otherwise the base will be jacked up by the CPU socket, plus the clip's pressure point will be way off target.
  • No heat-transfer material bridging the gap between the CPU core and the heatsink, or poor-quality stuff. Arctic Silver 3 is your friend here.
  • Heatsink is getting hung up on some obstruction, so it doesn't make square contact with the CPU core. If you were to take the motherboard out of the case and sight the gap between the CPU and the heatsink, that would reveal anything sticking up and keeping the heatsink from making square contact.

The ThermalTake heatsinks are regarded by many as not being all they're cracked up to be. I'd take a plain ol' copper-based $15 Taisol over a ThermalTake, personally.

By the way, what is the VCore (CPU core voltage) showing in the BIOS?
 
My first impression is that your motherboard is volting the heck outta those processors which can double heat production and damage the processor.
One thing that I noticed is that both of the coolers you are using normally plug into a molex (hard drive) power connector. However, they use an adaptor to do it. If you aren't using that adapter and have it plugged right into the motherboard, you are overloading the CPU fan header and the fan may be kicking out on you shortly after power on. I would think that the overvolting thing is more likely though.
 
Upon further reflection: since the thing comes with different clips, you have to install the clip yourself, right? Maybe you have the heatsink on in the proper direction but the clip is backwards, as another possible problem. If you sight from the side, the point of the clip must be over the CPU core. And as I mentioned, the stepped end of the heatsink MUST be over the solid part of the CPU socket.
 
Good ideas mechBgon. I have/had the heat sink installed the only way it would actualyl fit anyway. The grove in the base is to the wide part of the socket, yes, where the arm pivots, that is covered 🙂

I have a tube of AS3 😛.....
(And actually used it, too! :Q lol)

It sure made square contact with the core, I know when it didnt though for something, BuZZAap! *fizzle* 🙂

By the way, what is the VCore (CPU core voltage) showing in the BIOS? ..................... If i remember correctly, they were just within a few hundredths or so of what they are supposed to be. However over AIM I am being told it may not have been so normal, it was for some point of time though.

FlorianRed . That is also a valid idea that I had not brought up in my original post, I am using the molex connector through the speed switch. The yellow RPM wire is the only one that goes to the motherboard. As for the voltage, it was normal. *ATLEAST IN BIOS* (as in before it booted, I could have used sandra and checked that too when it was in xp but i cant right now as i have no cpu for it handy). For all I know, when it actually gets in the OS something could go wacky and bump it up..never checked there, just the temps at the time, but in the bios it had ordinary voltages for everything and it would start out at a very acceptable temperature of abotu 31 inside the core and just slowly climb, level off at liek ~50~ under no load in the bios then when it gets into windows whatever FSB it was at it would show 81+.

Anything else is more than welcome even if its just as simple as 'uhh, did you use the AS3 correctly?' .. duh, of course i did, but you know, simple stupid questions are fine.
 
Im shoddys friend;

Ok to answer some of peoples post,
We used most of the time my volcano 7 with a crystal clear temp fan. My overclocked 1700+ (145fsb) will idle around 41c, and will be at 46c load
My friends 2100+ (133fsb) would idle around 52-53 and we ran a high graphics game that even my overlocked video card couldent really keep up with it, and nearly had it around 59c full load.

Summary how the 2100+ went dead was when we thought and did, stick on his volcano 7+ and have my probe to check the temp with that fan to see how much of a difference cooling would be, this is connect straight to the molex *we know that we arent sopposed to connect it to the mobo, we can kill it duh*
but anyways. I turn it on. the fan running at full load sucks my 400watt ps because I am also running about 10 more 80mm's to cool my comp *case temp is at 25c* my digital doc lcd screen fickers, I check the temp and it says 91c so I turn off the ps asap when I saw that. Took off the heatsink and saw the AS3 cooked white and had some brown stains around the edge of the core.

So we did use as3, the thermaltake volcano 7+ and my volcano 7 has a cut so theres only one way to hook it on correctly. Also keep in mind that when my 1700+ was on my friends rig, we were using my hsf, not his.

Another thing I forgot to say, I forgot to reset my cmos when we stuck in my friends 2100+ eariler before it go fried, remeber I run my 1700+ with a 145fsb so it makes it a 1600mhz (1900+) and also I increased my volatage of .025 and had my volcano 7 hsf on his cpu, we booted it up. And it stated it was a xp2300+, it got in my win xp, but then froze trying to use a benchmark program. So running it even that high of a fsb with my volcano 7 and not killing the cpu, what can we determine?

Running a accidently overclocked 2100 and still booted into xp with my volcano 7 was fine.
But then ran a defult vcore and a 133fsb with my friends volcano 7+ killed it...

Shoddy, I think you should get a volcano 9 since of the 74cfm over just a 53cfm with my 80mm.
Also like I said while you were at my house, copper dose hold heat better than allunium. So a solid copper heatsink isnt that good?

Sorry I'm typing alot but this is what I saw, what I smelled
 
And for sure the clip itself isn't reversed on the heatsink? The point is over the CPU core, right?
 
yea.....uh..no. its off by about a half inch. :Q:Q:Q damn that could be makin a bit of a difference i guess. duurh. 😱 I had to change it around actually because it was near IMPOSSIBLE to get it hooked on the other way around. because there are 2 capacitors right there and its very difficult to angle it so that the clips will grab on, i forget if i was ever able to hook it on that way anyway ......... doubt it. hmm anyway i'll switch it around and do a test to see if i can even hook it on again the way it 'should' be. uhg. Thanks for bringing that little detail to the light though, i never even thought of that.

HOWEVER, that still doesnt excuse the motherboard from having higher temperatures with AznBoosters CPU and HSF on my motherboard than on his......
 
I know what you mean about hard-to-reach areas... I have a test heatsink for the systems I build at work... it's a Coolermaster with a nifty-looking humongous thumbrest on the business end of the clip. But the darned CPU socket is close enough to the power supply that I can't get my hands in there! 🙁

Good luck, I hope it shows improvement with the clip switched around.
 
Well switching that thing around will make it surely have the square load on the cpu....which i don tthink i was exactly having before. Probably not a whole lot off because the room between the contact points and all that stuff are so close to clip it onto the socket, but enough. I'll see what i can do but im still worried about my motherboard.....🙁
 
Originally posted by: mechBgon
I know what you mean about hard-to-reach areas... I have a test heatsink for the systems I build at work... it's a Coolermaster with a nifty-looking humongous thumbrest on the business end of the clip. But the darned CPU socket is close enough to the power supply that I can't get my hands in there! 🙁

Good luck, I hope it shows improvement with the clip switched around.
Click to expand...

Yea, i know what you mean :Q Atleast ive actually only paid for the original, then newegg took it back because theyre cool and dont ask stuff, and AMD this time (30 days since original purchase date is far past for newegg) didnt ask anything that would incriminate me to void the warranty. This Volcano is one big mother of a heat sink though. When its installed, right between the NB and all those connectors to the outside of the case there are 2 caps (when all is done the close 1 is within a quarter inch from the side of the hsf) that make it literally impossible to hook on the HSF without first pushing the clip dodad without the screwdriver part to underneath the plate that screws into the copper block at the bottom. This extendeds the clip further than it would be if i was just pushing it down. At this point its fairly simple to clip on then I gotta tug on it a bit so the clip will pop back off its ledge to put some tension on it again and clip down the other side. I dont think i thought of doing that when i decided to switch it around to make it easier on me, or obviously of the load being off center. But it sure was easier.. just angle it, hook it over the socket tabs, bring it over and have the whole room of the case now to clip down the screw driver side, now its the opposite for that too, right smack between it and the psu, not horrible though.

Thanks a lot though for bringing that simple obvious thing to my attention. Its just those little things you always overlook. I also probably wouldnt be able to see it to ever question it as the fins would rarely be in line so that i could see that the point is off and think of the effects. Now I just hope it was only that, that made it overheat some, because the motherboard still ran Aznboosters cpu with his own hsf which is installed correctly hotter than normal. If that doesnt fix my problem i'll bump this thread in a while after i get my new cpu. Thanks again😱🙂
 
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