What SSDs besides Samsung 840 use planar TLC NAND?

[cbn]

What SSDs besides Samsung 840 use planar TLC NAND?

EDIT: (Some more SSDs using planar TLC)


OCZ Trion 100 (TC58 controller with 19nm toshiba TLC NAND)

The TC58 controller is supposedly made by Toshiba and so is the firmware, but Toshiba isn't willing to disclose any specifics of the architecture. However, I discovered that the PCB layout closely resembles the Phison S10, and the relation is substantial enough that I doubt it's a coincidence. There are only minor differences in resistor and capacitor placements, but when focusing on the area under the controller the two are undoubtedly a match. The timing is another clue because at Computex Phison told me that the company is a week or two away from finalizing the TLC firmware for the S10 and now a few weeks later Toshiba puts out its first TLC drive with nearly identical look to Phison S10 drives.

OCZ Trion 150 (TC 58 controller with 15nm TLC NAND)

Toshiba Q300 (TC 58 controller 19/15nm TLC NAND)

Silicon Power S55 (Phison S10, 32/60GB MLC 120/240/480/960GB TLC)

PNY CS1311 (Phison S10 and Toshiba 15nm planar TLC NAND)

Corsair Force LE (Phison S10 controller unknown TLC NAND)

GOODRAM CX100 (Phison S10 controller 19nm TLC NAND)

Patriot Blast (Phison S10 controller Micron 16nm 128Gbit TLC NAND)

Team Group Ultra L3 EVO (quad core controller with eight channels, probably Phison S10)


Zotac T400 (Phison S11 and Toshiba 15nm TLC)

Patriot Burst (Phison S11 and planar TLC)


SanDisk Ultra II 120/240GB Marvell 88SS9190 480/960GB Marvell 88SS9189 19nm TLC NAND

Lite-On CV2 (Marvell 88SS1074 controller 19nm TLC NAND)

Lite-On MU-II (Marvell? controller and Toshiba 15nm TLC NAND)

Plextor M7V (Marvell 88SS1074B1 controller 15nm TLC NAND)

SanDisk X300 (likely Marvell controller 19nm TLC NAND)

SanDisk X400 (Marvell 88SS1074-BSW2 and 15nm TLC NAND)

Kingston UV400 (Marvell 88SS107 and ? TLC NAND)


Plextor S2C (SM2258 and SK Hynix 16nm TLC)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10735/plextor-launches-s2c-ssds-16-nm-sk-hynix-tlc-nand-and-smi-sm2258

Adata Premiere SP550 (Silicon Motion SM2256 controller with SK Hynix 16nm TLC NAND)

Crucial BX200: (uses SM2256 Controller and Micron 16nm 128Gbit TLC NAND)

Mushkin Enhanced ECO3 (SM2256 controller)

Intel 540s (SM2258 and SK Hynix 16nm planar TLC) EDIT: SSDreview found SM2258 in their review of the 480GB model .

Mushkin Triactor (SM2256 controller with 15nm Sandisk 256Gbit TLC NAND)

AMD R3 (SM2256 and SK Hynix planar TLC NAND)

Transcend SSD220 (SM2256 controller and unknown NAND)

Plextor S3 (Silicon Motion SM2254 controller and SK Hynix 14nm TLC)


Samsung 750 EVO ( Samsung MGX 16nm TLC NAND)

Samsung PM951 (Samsung UBX controller 19nm TLC NAND)

Samsung PM851 (Samsung MDX 19nm TLC NAND)

Samsung CM871a (Samsung Maia controller and 16nm TLC NAND)


SK Hynix Canvas SL301 SK Hynix LM878100AA controller SK Hynix 16nm TLC NAND

 

[VirtualLarry]

What SSDs besides Samsung 840 use planar TLC NAND?

EDIT: (Some more SSDs using planar TLC)

Adata Premiere SP550 (using Silicon Motion SM2256 controller)

Adata didn't release pricing details, but with Samsung's 850 EVO and OCZ's Trion TLC drives already shipping in the channel, we expect the company to undercut both products to move SP550 at a very low price point.

Will we see $30 120GB SSDs soon?

 

[cbn]

Will we see $30 120GB SSDs soon?

I hope so, it would be awesome for all kinds of lower end computers out there including those with 2GB RAM (Eg, Core 2, with only two DIMM slots and not using the more expensive higher capacity 2GB DDR2 DIMMs).

P.S. With regard to frequent paging out and disk swapping (in a situation of limited RAM), I did find this marketing graph (from the Tom's Silicon Motion SM2256 article ) interesting.

In a nutshell, the idea is the SM2256 controller (with DRAM cache) is supposed to extend the life of the NAND. (Will be interesting to see how this pans out in the Wild, Long life or drives dying sooner than expected?).

 

[hojnikb]

Sandisk ULTRA II also uses 19nm TLC

 

[cbn]

Crucial BX200:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9756/...-960gb-ssd-review-crucials-first-tlc-nand-ssd

(uses SM2256 Controller and Micron 16nm 128Gbit TLC NAND)

 

[nanaki333]

Will we see $30 120GB SSDs soon?

If you live near a Microcenter, they have 120GB SSDs for $35 and currently have a few for $40.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/...rnal_Solid_State_Drive_(SSD)_SP120GBSS3S60S25

http://www.microcenter.com/product/...ernal_Solid_State_Drive_(SSD)_-_ECSSD120GX100

http://www.microcenter.com/product/451371/Trion_100_Series_120GB_SATA_III_6Gb-s_25_Solid_State_Drive

I'm pretty sure Microcenter's "house brand" 120GB drives were $30 around Christmas time.

 

[cbn]

If you live near a Microcenter, they have 120GB SSDs for $35 and currently have a few for $40.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/...rnal_Solid_State_Drive_(SSD)_SP120GBSS3S60S25

http://www.microcenter.com/product/...ernal_Solid_State_Drive_(SSD)_-_ECSSD120GX100

http://www.microcenter.com/product/451371/Trion_100_Series_120GB_SATA_III_6Gb-s_25_Solid_State_Drive

I'm pretty sure Microcenter's "house brand" 120GB drives were $30 around Christmas time.

Newegg also has this Team Group Ultra L5 120GB SSD with SM2246EN controller and SK hynix synchronous MLC NAND for $39.99:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2452639

Awesome specs for that price level.

This makes me wonder what a SSD with the upcoming Phison S11, which is a DRAM-less controller and TLC NAND would cost at the 120/128GB level? But more importantly how would this potentially lower cost drive perform? As we know TLC has a higher error rate than MLC NAND so it needs a more robust controller.

 

[Ranulf]

Crucial BX200:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9756/...-960gb-ssd-review-crucials-first-tlc-nand-ssd

(uses SM2256 Controller and Micron 16nm 128Gbit TLC NAND)

Wow. Perhaps if prices are really really good for the bx200 it will be worth it over the bx100 or mx200 let alone the 850 evo.

 

[cbn]

Wow. Perhaps if prices are really really good for the bx200 it will be worth it over the bx100 or mx200 let alone the 850 evo.

Two things to keep in mind:

1. BX200 controller (SM2256) uses the same RISC core as the controller (SM2246EN) in the BX100, but has extra error checking to do. This makes for a slower drive.

2. 250GB Samsung 850 EVO 2.5" SSDs are routinely going on sale for $74.99 at Newegg.

With those two things mentioned, I do think it will be interesting how these SM2256 drives end being priced in relation to Samsung 850 EVO and drives with SM2246EN controller.

 

[cbn]

Mushkin Enhanced ECO3 (SM2256 controller)

Silicon Power S55 (Phison S10)

 

[PliotronX]

Wow. Perhaps if prices are really really good for the bx200 it will be worth it over the bx100 or mx200 let alone the 850 evo.

Did you even see the comparison graphs? The BX200 bottoms just about every chart. The S55 is a better TLC deal at this point.

 

[Madpacket]

I hope so, it would be awesome for all kinds of lower end computers out there including those with 2GB RAM (Eg, Core 2, with only two DIMM slots and not using the more expensive higher capacity 2GB DDR2 DIMMs).

P.S. With regard to frequent paging out and disk swapping (in a situation of limited RAM), I did find this marketing graph (from the Tom's Silicon Motion SM2256 article ) interesting.

In a nutshell, the idea is the SM2256 controller (with DRAM cache) is supposed to extend the life of the NAND. (Will be interesting to see how this pans out in the Wild, Long life or drives dying sooner than expected?).

Other than endurance, performance is concern. The same Toms article shows the Silicon Motion controller with TLC (Samsung 19nm NAND used) falling far behind Samsung's own 850 Evo drives with respect to random reads and writes.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/silicon-motion-sm2256-ssd-preview,4066-3.html

I guess I'll continue to keep away from TLC drives unless they're Sammy Evo 850's.

 

[cbn]

Other than endurance, performance is concern. The same Toms article shows the Silicon Motion controller with TLC (Samsung 19nm NAND used) falling far behind Samsung's own 850 Evo drives with respect to random reads and writes.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/silicon-motion-sm2256-ssd-preview,4066-3.html

I guess I'll continue to keep away from TLC drives unless they're Sammy Evo 850's.

Samsung 850 Evo uses 3D TLC NAND which has an endurance closer to the planar MLC NAND than it does to planar TLC NAND. For this reason the 850 EVO SSD controller doesn't need to do as much error checking to keep the NAND alive....thus the drive will be faster.

 

[Elixer]

Samsung 850 Evo uses 3D TLC NAND which has an endurance closer to the planar MLC NAND than it does to planar TLC NAND. For this reason the 850 EVO SSD controller doesn't need to do as much error checking to keep the NAND alive....thus the drive will be faster.

I would think that the controller would need to have even more error checking cooked in for the 3D NAND, and it wouldn't necessarily be slower. They are still hitting their max on the SATA interface.

 

[cbn]

I would think that the controller would need to have even more error checking cooked in for the 3D NAND

Here is some info I found on P/E cycles:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5067/understanding-tlc-nand/2

2Xnm planar MLC: 3000 P/E cycles
2Xnm planar TLC: 750 P/E cycles

Samsung V-NAND TLC is rated at 2000 P/E cycles ---> http://anandtech.com/show/8747/samsung-ssd-850-evo-review/4

So Samsung TLC V-NAND is closer to planar MLC NAND than it is to planar TLC NAND

P.S. Keep in mind those quotes on the planar MLC and TLC NAND are for 2Xnm. I believe the P/E cycles for 1Xnm are lower.

 

[cbn]

Updated opening post with Team Group Ultra L3 EVO, Samsung 750 EVO and PNY CS1311.

EDIT: Also added Intel 540s.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Here is some info I found on P/E cycles:
2Xnm planar TLC: 750 P/E cycles

P.S. Keep in mind those quotes on the planar MLC and TLC NAND are for 2Xnm. I believe the P/E cycles for 1Xnm are lower.

That's... horrid! Especially when you consider the data-retention issues with at-rest data decaying, and using up precious P/E cycles re-writing the data.

 

[Glaring_Mistake]

A few more to be added to the list.

Corsair Force LE Phison S10 controller unknown TLC NAND

GOODRAM CX100 Phison S10 controller 19nm TLC NAND

Lite-On CV2 Marvell 88SS1074 controller 19nm TLC NAND

Mushkin Triactor SM2256 controller unknown TLC NAND

Patriot Blast Phison S10 controller IMFT 16nm TLC NAND

Plextor M7V Marvell 88SS1074B1 controller 15nm TLC NAND

Samsung PM951 Samsung UBX controller 19nm TLC NAND

SanDisk X300 likely Marvell controller 19nm TLC NAND

SanDisk X400 likely Marvell controller 19nm (?) TLC NAND

SK Hynix Canvas SL301 SK Hynix LM878100AA controller SK Hynix 16nm TLC NAND

Toshiba Q300 TC 58 controller 19/15nm TLC NAND

 

[cbn]

A few more to be added to the list.

Corsair Force LE Phison S10 controller unknown TLC NAND

GOODRAM CX100 Phison S10 controller 19nm TLC NAND

Lite-On CV2 Marvell 88SS1074 controller 19nm TLC NAND

Mushkin Triactor SM2256 controller unknown TLC NAND

Patriot Blast Phison S10 controller IMFT 16nm TLC NAND

Plextor M7V Marvell 88SS1074B1 controller 15nm TLC NAND

Samsung PM951 Samsung UBX controller 19nm TLC NAND

SanDisk X300 likely Marvell controller 19nm TLC NAND

SanDisk X400 likely Marvell controller 19nm (?) TLC NAND

SK Hynix Canvas SL301 SK Hynix LM878100AA controller SK Hynix 16nm TLC NAND

Toshiba Q300 TC 58 controller 19/15nm TLC NAND

Thank you very much!

Opening post updated.

 

[Glaring_Mistake]

It's just different names for the same thing but I realized you might want to change the NAND that Patriot Blast uses to Micron 16nm 128Gbit TLC NAND otherwise people might get confused and think that the Patriot Blast and the Crucial BX200 use different types of NAND.

 

[cbn]

It's just different names for the same thing but I realized you might want to change the NAND that Patriot Blast uses to Micron 16nm 128Gbit TLC NAND otherwise people might get confused and think that the Patriot Blast and the Crucial BX200 use different types of NAND.

Agreed. Thanks for that observation.

Change in labeling has been made.

 

[Glaring_Mistake]

Some more information to fill out the list with.

Samsung 750 EVO Samsung MGX 16nm TLC NAND

Samsung PM851 Samsung MDX 19nm TLC NAND

Silicon Power S55 32/60GB MLC 120/240/480/960GB TLC

SanDisk Ultra II 120/240GB Marvell 88SS9190 480/960GB Marvell 88SS9189 19nm TLC NAND

ADATA SP550 SM2256 SK Hynix 16nm TLC NAND (heard previously that they planned to switch over to using Micron 16nm 128Gbit TLC NAND instead but don't know for certain that they will or perhaps already have)

And you haven't filled out the NAND for Trion 100 (19nm) or Trion 150 (15nm).

Maybe you should fill out maker of NAND too to lessen risk of anyone thinking that they're from the same manufacturer when they're just using the same litography.

 

[Johnny Lucky]

I maintain a consumer ssd database which is listed in forums around the world. The database includes controller and flash memory identification whenever possible. Here is the link:

http://www.johnnylucky.org/data-storage/ssd-database.html

You will also find links to technical reviews. The reviews are divided into two groups - English Language reviews and reviews in many other languages. Updates are done almost daily. It is strictly a hobby so there is no advertising.

 

[Glaring_Mistake]

I maintain a consumer ssd database which is listed in forums around the world. The database includes controller and flash memory identification whenever possible. Here is the link:

http://www.johnnylucky.org/data-storage/ssd-database.html

You will also find links to technical reviews. The reviews are divided into two groups - English Language reviews and reviews in many other languages. Updates are done almost daily. It is strictly a hobby so there is no advertising.

That's a good list of a lot of SSDs and which contains a few more SSDs with TLC.

However looking through it for those already mentioned here there are some inaccuracies.

ADATA SP550 uses the SM2256 as a controller and either SK Hynix 16nm TLC or Micron 16nm TLC as NAND.

Patriot Blast uses Micron 16nm NAND (at least according to one review).

SanDisk Ultra II uses two different controllers depending on capacity with Marvell 88SS9190 for the 120 and 240GB versions and Marvell 88SS9189 for the 480 and 960GB versions.
It also uses Toshiba 19nm TLC NAND.

SK Hynix Canvas SL301 uses SK Hynix 16nm TLC NAND.

And newer versions of the Toshiba Q300 use 15nm TLC NAND.

 

[Johnny Lucky]

GM - Thanks for mentioning the errors. I will correct them first thing tomorrow morning.