What should i get? Athlon X2 3800 or more RAM?

[imported_Spilson]

Hello there,

I'll be travelling to the US on September and would like to buy an upgrade for my computer.

Right now my config is as follow:

Epox 9NPA+ Ultra
AMD A64 3000 Venice (Thermalright XP90)
1Gig of Corsair Value RAM (512 x 2 on dual channel)
Leadtek 6600GT
Seagate 120Gb
And the rest

My system is not oc'd right now.

What do you think would give me a better performance increase?

- An Athlon X2 3800 (the prices are looking really good right now) or
- More/better RAM (add 1 more Gig of Corsair Value or switch for a better 2Gb kit (1+1), like those hyperx or xms series).

I like to play some games now and then, but mostly i use my system for apps like autocad, corel and photoshop.

I could also think about upgrading my video card but i want to wait for DX10 to come out, since i'm not playing too much games atm.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Spilson

 

[LW07]

I would get the X2 3800+ now and get the other gig of Corsair Value later. Definitly don't go for a 2 gig kit of those "fast" ram, as they don't make much of a difference in performance.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: LW07
I would get the X2 3800+ now and get the other gig of Corsair Value later. Definitly don't go for a 2 gig kit of those "fast" ram, as they don't make much of a difference in performance.

QFT. Unless you are a serious OCer or enthusiast, the faster, lower latency RAM won't do all that much. But the X2 will be a big boost especially if you multitask a lot.

Ideal upgrade would be an X2 and another gig of value DDR, since DDR prices are going to go up from now on.

 

[videopho]

Why get the ram later? Get both now while you can, assuming you do not travel to the US in a regular basis. With both upgrades, your PC will be fully Vista proof when comes early next year.
My $0.02

 

[n7]

I'd say both also.

If that's not possible, you just have to decide what you value more.

Heavy multitasking ability?
Or running one program or fewer at once, but at maximum potential (i imagine Photoshop likes to use over a GB sometimes).

 

[Mucker]

Without hesitation, OC your cpu (replacements are cheap ). You have a great OCing motherboard. You should be able to get to 2500 MHz easily. Use a divider to keep your memory around stock. Then buy a 7900GT. eVGA has them for about $250 after rebate.

You'll see a very nice performance gain for the money.....

 

[imported_Spilson]

Thank you all for the quick replies.

So the best option would be: get the 3800 X2 first and more RAM later, right?
I might get both while Im in the US, it'll just depend on how things work out there, since i won't be able to buy online.

@Mucker:

I live in Brazil and it's somewhat hot in here. I oc'd once and got to around 2.2Ghz, but didn't push it any harder. Replacements are cheap in the US, I'm sure, but it's a little different around here


Well, i'll be going to New York City and New Jersey, do you guys recommend any good stores in these areas? I will try everything i can to buy online (much cheaper, of course) but if I can't, a point in the right direction would be great.


Thanks one more time for all your help,

Spilson

 

[996GT2]

I suggest you buy an aftermarket heatsink while in the US also. That, coupled with your great OCing mobo, will easily take your CPU past 2.5 GHz provided you don't have a dud. Those are relatively cheap anyway, around $20-30 for something like an AC Freezer 64 Pro. Also you should visit stores such as Fry's electrionics to check out their selection, although prices are usually higher than online.

 

[Mucker]

Spil,

You have an XP-90 which is a great HSF. Temps will be absolutely fine even in Brazil

I live in Las Vegas, NV where it was 115F last week :Q I also have a 9NPA+ Sli. The cpu sensors on that board (my board) are way off, specifically 10 to 15C load.

There is a great program for checking core temps here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103639&highlight=coretemp

They will give you a much better indication of your cpu temp.

Your Venice should be good to about 55C max temp. Try to keep the cpu volts to less than 1.55.

I understand and respect your cautious approach, but overclocking is really pretty safe if you are careful. I am guessing you could get 2500 MHz with 1.4 volts....very safe...

Anyway, best of luck sir.......

m

 

[misanthropy]

You can't just stick another GB of ram in there since when all four RAM slots are used the RAM will work at a lower frequency on AMD processors or some ******. If you want to do it right, you'll have to replace what you have with a 2*1GB kit.

 

[imported_Spilson]

Mucker,

At stock speed my cpu is at 50C (using the motherboard temp sensor), even with the XP90 (maybe because my 90mm fan is crap - evercool - but it was the only 90mm i could find around here). That's the reason for my cautioness.

You saying that the mobo temp sensor is not reliable? I'll try that software you linked me when i get home and post the results here.

Thinking of it i might even get a better 90mm fan in the US. Maybe a Sunon (low noise, good airflow)....

Thanks.

Spilson

 

[Mucker]

What is the max rated airflow of that evercool? Your 50C idle is a bit high. Sounds to me like you need better airflow through your case (or a good cleaning ). A case upgrade may be just the ticket in your hot climate, preferably one with front and rear 120mm fans.

Here's a Panaflo I use with my XP-90: http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/Panaflo-...-High-Output-FBA09A12H1BX-p-16196.html

It has rpm sensing and good top end airflow (57 cfm).

 

[avi85]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
[Ideal upgrade would be an X2 and another gig of value DDR, since DDR prices are going to go up from now on.

Source?

 

[imported_Spilson]

Mucker,

Here's my Evercool fan:
http://www.2cooltek.com/Evercool-92mm-x-25mm-Cooling-Fan-Medium-Speed-p-559.html

The airflow is rated at 40CFM. Not the best, i know...

I was looking to buy one of those Panaflo, but i just couldnt find then here. I'll probably get one in the US.

My case is not the best in airflow too. Again, lack of options... It has a second evercool fan (same model as the other) sucking the air out in the back, but no front intake).

I tried to download that little temp reader program, but the link on the thread you pointed me isn't working.

Well, now i have 3 thing to consider investing on while im in the US:
- CPU
- RAM
- Cooling

Hmmm. It get's harder to decide what to do after every post

Thanks

Spilson

 

[RallyMaster]

Originally posted by: videopho
Why get the ram later? Get both now while you can, assuming you do not travel to the US in a regular basis. With both upgrades, your PC will be fully Vista proof when comes early next year.
My $0.02

QFT. Substantial benefits from upgrading to 2GB even on my single core machine.

 

[LW07]

Originally posted by: avi85

Originally posted by: 996GT2
[Ideal upgrade would be an X2 and another gig of value DDR, since DDR prices are going to go up from now on.

Source?

Well, as DDR2 ram becomes more mainstream and with AMD getting rid of S939, and all that, all you have left if DDR2 systems, with AM2 and Conroe systems requiring DDR2, and that leaves no systems left unless you count Socket 754, but that'll lose interest with Dual Core CPUs becoming more mainstream, so the ram manufacturers will stop producing DDR ram sooner or later, and as it gets scarcer and scarcer, it gets more and more pricer. Take a look at the RDRAM that was out, for example. It's no longer made, and 512mb of that stuff will cost you between $208(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820147302)
and $334(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145150). A gig would cost you at least $416. That's how DDR is going to be headed sooner or later.

 

[Mucker]

Definitely work on your case cooling if you can. The fan on the cpu should be adequate, but you need to get air moving through your case. You will see a big difference.

How about this link (for core temp): http://www.thecoolest.zerobrains.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=137

 

[avi85]

Originally posted by: LW07

Originally posted by: avi85

Originally posted by: 996GT2
[Ideal upgrade would be an X2 and another gig of value DDR, since DDR prices are going to go up from now on.

Source?

Well, as DDR2 ram becomes more mainstream and with AMD getting rid of S939, and all that, all you have left if DDR2 systems, with AM2 and Conroe systems requiring DDR2, and that leaves no systems left unless you count Socket 754, but that'll lose interest with Dual Core CPUs becoming more mainstream, so the ram manufacturers will stop producing DDR ram sooner or later, and as it gets scarcer and scarcer, it gets more and more pricer. Take a look at the RDRAM that was out, for example. It's no longer made, and 512mb of that stuff will cost you between $208(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820147302)
and $334(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145150). A gig would cost you at least $416. That's how DDR is going to be headed sooner or later.

I see what you're saying, although I think RDRAM is an extreme case, if use SDRAM as an example the prices are higher than DDR and DDR2 but not by much, also on older types of RAM you usually can only get the highest rated dpeed (PC133 for SDRAM and PC800 for RDRAM) so DDR2 which on the surface may seem real cheap it's only because you have the options for 533 and 667 but in a few years when they phase it out you will only have 1066 or maybe 800 which costs more.

If you've been wondering what my point is, it's that the prices aren't really that much higher on older RAM it's that you have to buy the highest (JEDEC standard) speed no matter what, so you pay more.

 

[imported_Spilson]

Ok, I managed to download core temp.

It reads 36C for my CPU. So i guess it's alright then?

Why such a big difference from the mobo temp sensor (50C)?

I also tried speefan, and it gets 3 sensor readings:

temp 1 is stable at 38C (idle and stressed with SuperPi)
temp 2 is at 48C (goes up to 55C when stressed with SuperPi)
temp 3 is -46C (i don't know how it's possible, so i'm not even considering it)

So temp 2 is the reading of the mobo CPU sensor and it's actually the same value reported in my BIOS.

Which one should i trust?

Thanks

Spilson

 

[996GT2]

A lot of mobo temp sensors are notoriously inaccurate, so I'd go with the value of the program. Another method is to feel the heatsink base with your hand. If it really idles at 50C, the heatsink base would get very hot.

 

[Mucker]

Core Temp:

"This is a new program that lets you monitor Intel's "Core", "Core 2" and all AMD K8 chips' die temperature. The temperature readings are very accurate as the data is collected from a Digital Thermal Sensor (or DTS) which is located in each individual processing core, near the hottest part."

If true, it is the very best temp reading.

I've had alot of problems with Speedfan on the 9NPA+. Some of the voltages and temperatures do not read correctly. The Epox utility that came with the mb is better but limited in info. I believe core temp is the best indication. I have a x2 3800+ that idles at 36C and 48C at load. It is OC'd to 2500 MHz with "auto" voltage which is about 1.50v.

Speedfan does work very well with my DFI Ultra-D though. The Epox and DFI use different monitoring sensors, apparently Speedfan recognizes DFI's better.....

 

[imported_Spilson]

Great!

So my CPU temp is right where it should be?

I still need to consider improving my case airflow though. When i get home i'll touch the heatsink to see if it's hot or not and be sure that it's really at 36C.

I might try to OC it this weekend. You say that i can get to 2.4Ghz? Any tips on the settings (voltage, multiplier, FSB, etc)?

Thank you.

Spilson

 

[Mucker]

It's always a good idea to have your system backed up before playing. Do you use any drive imaging software?

Try 240 fsb (x10 cpu multiplier)
HT multiplier at 4x
166 memory divider (240 x 166/200 = 200 MHz) This will keep your memory at stock.
cpu voltage in "auto"
raise your memory voltage to 2.7v.....this is very safe

If you are having luck, try

260 fsb (x10 cpu multiplier)
HT multiplier at 3x
150 memory divider (260 x 150/200 = 195 MHz) With your memory, it's best to hover around stock 200 MHz.