CADsortaGUY
Lifer
That would be Nancy.
I don't think Reagan was a "fundie" but he did have a strong belief in God which he expressed in many speeches and policies.
CkG
That would be Nancy.
I don't think Reagan was a "fundie" but he did have a strong belief in God which he expressed in many speeches and policies.
CkG
This is one of my big problems with Reagan as well as the current Bush. They talked about being for smaller government but meanwhile were busy expanding it like crazy. Reagan expanded the government but wouldn't tax to pay for the expansion. Bush is following in his footsteps and even expanding on the expansion part of it.
Speaking of what Reagan got wrong, what about Iran-contra?
(Also, is it true he had a toupee? I'm looking at a pic that shows his hairpiece falling off. It's a partisan site though.)
(Also, is it true he had a toupee? I'm looking at a pic that shows his hairpiece falling off. It's a partisan site though.)
Do you actually remember history? America was in despair, with no vision and very little hope during the Carter era. Reagen brought America hope, prosperity, and a much brighter future. He wasn't perfect, no human being is, but he sure was a damn good president
And therefore? Iran-Contra didn't happen? I never said he was perfect (a strawman argument)
Or do you think discussing the negatives right now is wrong? Because if that's what you think then come out and say it.
Your vision of American history is more like an into to greatest hits of the 80s than anything serious.
"America was in despair, with no vision and very little hope during the Carter era. Reagen brought America hope, prosperity, and a much brighter future. AND THAT'S WHEN SYNTHETIC DRUMS STARTED HITTING THE AIRWAIVES AND WE HAD A-HA BRING US THEIR UNIQUE ...."
I guess the part about violating US law and UN law didn't bother you? Or how it appeased the Iranians? Or the part where Reagan covered it up?
Your definition of moving on is also weird. You don't mind discussing the positives of his presidency. But when it comes to something "bad" you have moved on.
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
- 6,389
- 29
- 91
Reagan covered up Iran/Contra? Was Reagan ever convicted of any crime.....because, well, you know, "covering up" a crime is also a criminal offense.
Soooo, where's your proof that Reagan covered up anything, and if you've got it, then hows come you never gave up that info to the justice dept? I'm sure they could have used your help......history might have been quite a bit different with you on the case........
Was Nixon ever convicted of a crime? I guess he didn't do anything then.
Reagan's statements are the proof:
"While all this was going on, Reagan pretended that there was nothing illegal going on. At one press conference, a journalist addressed the issue point-blank:
REPORTER: Mr. President, why don't we openly support those 7,000 guerrillas that are in rebellion rather than giving aid through covert activity?
PRESIDENT REAGAN: Well, because we want to keep on obeying the laws of our country, which we are now obeying.
REPORTER: Doesn't the United States want that government replaced?
PRESIDENT REAGAN: No, because that would be a violation of the law.
After the story broke, the President continued to deny everything. When he was finally forced to discuss the growing scandal in November 1986, Reagan declared:
"In spite of the wildly speculative and false stories of arms for hostages and alleged ransom payments, we did not -- repeat did not -- trade weapons or anything else for hostages; nor will we."
The following month, the White House was impatient about receiving a report on the arms-for-hostages deal by the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator Leahy commented on the administration's insistent requests for the report:
"The President ordered this whole operation on Iran. He ordered his Administration not to tell the intelligence committees what he was doing. Now he wants the Intelligence Committee to tell him what his Administration was doing during the time they were under his orders not to tell the Intelligence Committee. Even Alice in Wonderland doesn't get this twisted around."
In his January 1987 testimony before the Tower Commission, President Reagan specifically acknowledged having approved the Iranian arms sales back in August 1985. Two weeks later he reversed himself, claiming that his prior statement was erroneous. Reading from his notes, Reagan [messed] up when he read some of his stage directions aloud:
"If the question comes up at the Tower Board meeting, you might want to say that you were surprised."
Source
IIRC, Ronald Reagan's words on Iran-Contra:
As for Gen. Poindexter, not sure what became of him. Ollie "The Shredder" North went on to have a burger named after him at the Atlas Coney Island Restaurant in Flint, MI and host some war documentaries, one of which currently runs on Sunday nights on the Fox News Channel.
As for Gen. Poindexter, not sure what became of him. Ollie "The Shredder" North went on to have a burger named after him at the Atlas Coney Island Restaurant in Flint, MI and host some war documentaries, one of which currently runs on Sunday nights on the Fox News Channel.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
George Shultz I think summerizes why Reagan was so great... By sheer personality he modivated the good in people and be proud to be American...
"When the technical analysis of Reagan's foreign policy philosophy and execution is laid aside, perhaps the more fundamental difference between him and today's neoconservatives is one of temperament. Reagan was optimistic; he 'appealed to people's best hopes, not their fears.' By contrast, the neoconservative vision is one that has mobilized fear as a binding political adhesive in support of a one-dimensional approach to global affairs.
"We detect a deep pessimism among neoconservatives about human nature and human society ? and one that is much darker than the skepticism about human perfectibility often found in conservative thinking. They reject the notion ? implicit in Reagan's striving for accord with the Soviet Union ? that democracy can be brought to nondemocratic countries other than at the point of the bayonet or on the back of a Tomahawk cruise missile."
This whole article is worth a read and talks about even before RR is in the ground how the neo-cons are tring to ride on his coat-tails when they hated him all along. Ronnie despised Bush 1 and I'm sure he would the younger even more.
"When the technical analysis of Reagan's foreign policy philosophy and execution is laid aside, perhaps the more fundamental difference between him and today's neoconservatives is one of temperament. Reagan was optimistic; he 'appealed to people's best hopes, not their fears.' By contrast, the neoconservative vision is one that has mobilized fear as a binding political adhesive in support of a one-dimensional approach to global affairs.
"We detect a deep pessimism among neoconservatives about human nature and human society ? and one that is much darker than the skepticism about human perfectibility often found in conservative thinking. They reject the notion ? implicit in Reagan's striving for accord with the Soviet Union ? that democracy can be brought to nondemocratic countries other than at the point of the bayonet or on the back of a Tomahawk cruise missile."
This whole article is worth a read and talks about even before RR is in the ground how the neo-cons are tring to ride on his coat-tails when they hated him all along. Ronnie despised Bush 1 and I'm sure he would the younger even more.
John Poindexter went into private industry until he got a government appointment in 2002 from Bush II, where he took leadership of the Total Information Awareness project. To show him what TIA would be like, a group of people on the Internet created a page tracking John Poindexter, with satellite photos of his house and much more (they claimed to have his SSN and credit card numbers but would not publish them.) I'm not sure where he is since TIA got renamed and then went underground.
disagree with the op/ed piece, if anything Regan's presidency did more to bring me closer to the conservatives than push away, just as Klinton did alot to turn me off from the lib/moderate dems as I feel Kerry will further continue that trend and should it ever happen Clinton II get into office (shudder).
I'll agree to this statement as long as its ackowledged that government is a plural word, ranging from transnational organizations like the WTO, IMF, and UN, national governments, corporate governments, many of which are larger than most national governments, and provincial and local governments. When any one of those governments grows in power compared to the others, we generally lose freedoms, but when their power is successfully balanced, we can keep our freedoms.
How about this quote from Reagan praising fundamentalists: "?The Afghan Mujaheddin are the moral equivalent of the Founding Fathers of America??
Ouch.
Hmmm maybe Reagan was a great president for the US, but being from East Germany I remember him ( I was schooled in when he took office) instilling unbelievable fear in me. It was a time I guess i was around 9 where I would look out of the windows before going to bed and hope I would still live tomorrow. Off course some of that fear can be attributed to eastern propaganda. Nonetheless it was fearful times back then. Nukes being installed in W. Germany, SDI - even at as a kid it was very clear that we would be the battle field in a confrontation between US and USSR. I also remember Reagan turning down any offer of the Russians in abandoning the arms race even when the Russians offered a nuclear test stop moratorium and later did so onesided. Which only confirmed the propaganda that the US is out to kill us. So back then USA was always associated with agression, weapons and a desire to attack us (the evil empire comes to mind).
However even though now I know that this very arms race helped tearing down the Berlin Wall for me Reagan is still a very ambivalent figure for me.
However even though now I know that this very arms race helped tearing down the Berlin Wall for me Reagan is still a very ambivalent figure for me.
As you note, Poindexter, like other Iran-Contra figures, ended up in this current Bush administration... for a while, at least. Having been pardoned of his crimes by the elder Bush, GWB's administration brought him back to public life as the head of the "Office of Information Awareness" shortly after GWB took office. But then he came up with the wonderful idea of creating a "futures market," based on the stock market's model, wherein you could bet on future terrorist attacks and cash in if you were right. Needless to say, most sane people were appalled, and Poindexter resigned shortly afterwards. Where he went from there, I'm not sure... but I'll bet real money he's not too far from the administration.
Poindexter, of course, was not alone among former Iran-Contra folks to find a new home in the Bush administration. Elliot Abrams, who pled guilty to withholding information from Congress in order to avoid more serious charges and jail term for his actions as an Assistant Secretary of State in the Reagan administration (a moot point, of course, since the elder Bush pardoned him along with others who fell on their swords over Iran-Contra), is also back in action thanks to the current Bush administration as the National Security Council's staff chief for Democracy, Human Rights, and International Operations... ironic, really. Knowing that the senate wouldn't confirm any appointment Abrams might get, he was put into one that doesn't require senate confirmation. But that issue didn't get in the one way of Otto Reich's appointment.
To get around the problem of the Senate blocking Otto Reich's appointment as an Assistant Secretary of State, the GWB administration just waited until congress went into recess. His office ran illegal covert efforts to overthrow Nicaragua's government; but damn it, he's the best man for the job and a silly thing like checks and balances shouldn't get in the way of his being put back into power, right? Richard Armitage, John Negroponte, Mitch Daniels, all players in the Iran-Contra scandals, also found a home in the current presidential administration. In the time immediately after, of course, Bush could have appointed just about anyone without anyone saying so much as a word. So it's hardly surprising that shadowy figures with favor-debts to be repaid should find their ways back again.
cumhail
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