What PBS doesn't want you to see

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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,874
33,944
136
God's word furnishes scientists with an interperative framework to view the world. Basic to this framework are three Biblical presuppositions without which science would be impossible:

1. There is an oreder in creation.
2. There is a cause, or reasonable explanation, for every effect, or event, in creation.
3. There is something real to be discovered and understood about creation.

God has chosen to leave it to man to investigate the day-to-day process that that define the operation of the world.
On point 2: "God did it" covers all bases yet provides nothing of substance.
On point 3: There are plenty of preachers that will tell you that your statement is flat out false and that God's only revelation is the Bible. All all is corrupt and false.

Now, again (and again and again until you come up with something that isn't non-creationist in origin, totally nonsensical, or, as is most often the case in your threads, dodging the question) what creationist principles can be used in conducting scientific research that would yield useful results in the fields of oil exploration, biotechnology, or any other scientific endeavor?
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
There's nothing but conjecture with regard to how the Egyptians built them. That's one of the reasons they're one of the great wonders of the world. There is absolutely nothing documented. The only theories we have are developed from the only evidence we have, which is the construction of the pyramids themselves.

Fuck that. God (Lord Xenu) built them with slave labor from tormented thetans. DC-8s moved stones to construct it.

ALL HAIL LORD XENU, DICTATOR OF THE GALACTIC FEDERATION.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
I'll ignore the insult and stay on point.

You couldn't stay on point even if someone drove a spike up your arse.

The construction of pyramids and buildings doesn't mean that the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans had well developed scientific methodologies.

Do you have any conception of the amount of understanding of mathematics and practical physics that need to be in place before something on the scale of the pyramids or the Greco-Roman temples could be built? It's not possible to build on that scale without understanding the scientific principles of leverage and mass loading, etc.

I also notice that you're conveniently ducking the mention of Aristotle. I expect you'll also duck the fact that Euclid and Pythagoras had no biblical basis for their concepts either.

Sorry kiddo, but you're outclassed here. I've proven my point and I'm out. You're not worth any more of my time.

ZV
 
Aug 8, 2010
1,311
0
0
There is no guess about what the DI is. That's been established fact since the Wedge Document became public in 1998 and was reinforced during the Kitzmiller case. There is no room for argument of that fact among rational individuals.

As for my guesses about the article:

1) Check. Spot on the money. It focuses on very early experiments that have been addressed and readdressed many times over.

If that's the case, why do modern biology books keep misrpresenting these topics?

2) Check. A rating of "C-" is given despite the information including a full caveat about the experiment having been discredited by later evaluation simply because the caveat is given after talking about the experiment rather than before.

Why even bother presenting expreriments that have been discredited? If they have been discreditied, make it patently obvious.

3) Check. The provided quotes from the textbooks are uniformly short, often not even comprising full sentences, let alone proper quotations of entire paragraphs which would permit an honest evaluation of the tone of the textbook.

Easy, get the texts to see if the quotes were taken out of context. You are assuming that they were taken out of context. Guessing and assuming = poor argument.

4) Check. Includes citations of such scientific paragons as "Time" magazine, and the quotations selected from reputable sources are chopped and intentionally misrepresented. Evidence counter to their claims is ignored.

Red herring. You're going to discard the whole study because of a reference to "Time"?

Looks to me more like you chose not to address my "guesses" because they turned out to be uncomfortably accurate.

Looks to me like you're showing your bias.

ZV

1) Check. Spot on the money. It focuses on very early experiments that have been addressed and readdressed many times over.

If that's the case, why do modern biology books keep misrpresenting these topics?

2) Check. A rating of "C-" is given despite the information including a full caveat about the experiment having been discredited by later evaluation simply because the caveat is given after talking about the experiment rather than before.

Why even bother presenting expreriments that have been discredited? If they have been discreditied, make it patently obvious.

3) Check. The provided quotes from the textbooks are uniformly short, often not even comprising full sentences, let alone proper quotations of entire paragraphs which would permit an honest evaluation of the tone of the textbook.

Easy, get the texts to see if the quotes were taken out of context. You are assuming that they were taken out of context. Guessing and assuming = poor argument.

4) Check. Includes citations of such scientific paragons as "Time" magazine, and the quotations selected from reputable sources are chopped and intentionally misrepresented. Evidence counter to their claims is ignored.

Red herring. You're going to discard the whole study because of a reference to "Time"?

Looks to me more like you chose not to address my "guesses" because they turned out to be uncomfortably accurate.

Looks to me like you're showing your bias.
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
lol, i bet he thinks the egyptians doodled out the design in the sand and started whipping jew slaves to make it.
 
Aug 8, 2010
1,311
0
0
You couldn't stay on point even if someone drove a spike up your arse.

Do you have any conception of the amount of understanding of mathematics and practical physics that need to be in place before something on the scale of the pyramids or the Greco-Roman temples could be built? It's not possible to build on that scale without understanding the scientific principles of leverage and mass loading, etc.

I also notice that you're conveniently ducking the mention of Aristotle. I expect you'll also duck the fact that Euclid and Pythagoras had no biblical basis for their concepts either.

Sorry kiddo, but you're outclassed here. I've proven my point and I'm out. You're not worth any more of my time.

ZV

Understanding a scientific principle like leverage doesn't equal having a systematic scientific methodology.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Fuck that. God (Lord Xenu) built them with slave labor from tormented thetans. DC-8s moved stones to construct it.

ALL HAIL LORD XENU, DICTATOR OF THE GALACTIC FEDERATION.

I yield; that clearly must the truth. So say the holy scriptures, anandtech.com! :p
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
I've given lengthy explanations of the scientific evidence for ID in previous posts...
This is a lie. You could not, and still cannot explain what something "undesigned" would look like, so you cannot know how to falsify any of your design hypotheses. That is precisely why ID is unscientific.

...and I all I get back in return from you is name calling, insults, and links.
Your posts are met with the derision they deserve.

I suggest that you go back and read previous threads or do you own research.
I suggest you remove the plank from your own eye before you speak about the motes of dust which you suspect exist in others'.
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,801
91
91
I don't want to see you in this thread again unless you come bearing Christian slut pictures.

sarah_palin_1.jpg
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
God's word furnishes scientists with an interperative framework to view the world.
What "God's word"? It isn't a given that you've reliably identified the words of any allegedly existing deity.


Basic to this framework are three Biblical presuppositions without which science would be impossible:

1. There is an oreder in creation.
What "creation"? You haven't established that the universe was created, so you don't get to call it a "creation."

2. There is a cause, or reasonable explanation, for every effect, or event, in creation.
This is strongly contraindicated by observed quantum phenomena.

3. There is something real to be discovered and understood about creation.
This isn't a uniquely biblical idea.

Cliffs:
FAIL

{snip}
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
'fer the same reason noted astronomers do not debate the flat earthers?

LOL thats what you think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppjYDj9JUc
I really hope nobody posted this yet. I havent finished reading the thread


edit
Do you have any conception of the amount of understanding of mathematics and practical physics that need to be in place before something on the scale of the pyramids or the Greco-Roman temples could be built? It's not possible to build on that scale without understanding the scientific principles of leverage and mass loading, etc.
That doesn't mean it requires an advanced understanding. We do lots of things without completely understanding why we do them. For example, kids naturally figure out how a lever works. When trying to get a rock out of the ground, you jam a metal rod near the edge of the rock then use it like a crowbar. People know that gearing down a car gives it more power, but they don't exactly know why. Most people honestly don't know what soap does, but they still know how to use it.

People can learn by observation. Guys who have been building houses for 20 years can give a very accurate estimate for whether or not a piece of wood can hold a certain amount of weight. They likely didn't even take high school physics, but they can tell you exactly what a house can and cannot support, where the supports need to go, how to fasten them, what will break them, etc.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,260
6,444
136
I've thought that we ought to have a dedicated troll forum which is only seen by those logged in. As soon as we get into the hate or troll mode it goes there. That way people can flay each other as much as they like and the rest of us don't have to wade through it.

You already own a third of said forum, why not just post a link?
 

IcePickFreak

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2007
2,428
9
81
Another religion thread? Yikes.....

There is no god. Sorry.

There is too a god, the guitar god Jimi Hendrix for instance. I mean you can still hear his music so he must be, right? A non-believer friend of mine tried horribly to say different and made some crap up about "audio recordings" and "radio waves" lol, what an idiot. I don't hang out with him much anymore.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,286
145
106
Another religion thread? Yikes.....

There is no god. Sorry.

Well, I would disagree with you there. However, without getting into a huge flame fest, how about we just all agree that the OP is a moron.
 

Fayd

Diamond Member
Jun 28, 2001
7,970
2
76
www.manwhoring.com
Forgot the "blazing omission" name of Charles Darwin there now didn't you?

the list expands exponentially when you include all scientists who believed/actively worshipped the judeo-christian god.

my personal feelings:

intelligent design is something of a halfway-point between the ludicrous notion of strait creationism, and the horrifying notion of oblivion after death. I fear death because of what happens beyond it... the most horrifying prospect to me is that our conciousness is simply interactions of neurons and chemicals. IE, the lack of any notion of a soul, and no afterlife of any sort.

a belief in religion provides some comfort to assuage that fear.

now.. referring to intelligent design. belief in a god doesn't work unless he's a creator god. if he's not, how does he ensure your afterlife?

belief in a creator god doesn't work unless he created you or guided your creation towards some goal.

belief in strait creationism doesn't work in the face of science.

so we're left with the HOPE that there's a god out there guiding our creation towards his goal, and he has a place for us in an afterlife.


SO: I don't see belief in intelligent design as a mark of stupidity, but rather a response to fear of oblivion. regarding my own beliefs, I don't really know what to believe. and i doubt i ever will.


EDIT: BTW, OP is a Troll.
 
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sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
The story begins with two watery tumultuous beings, one male and one female, Apsu (sweet water) and Tiamat (salt water). From their union there come forth a variety of sea monsters and gods. In the ensuing chaos Tiamat, the female creator, tries to take control. Her descendants unite against her, choosing one of their number - Marduk, the god of Babylon - to lead them.

Armed with a hurricane and riding a tempest drawn by four fiery steeds, Marduk meets Tiamat and her evil accomplice Kingu in battle. He kills them both.

He splits the monstrous corpse of Tiamat into two parts. From half of her he creates the heaven, from the other half the earth. In heaven he constructs a dwelling place for his colleagues, the gods. Realizing that they will need a race of servants, he uses the blood of Kingu to create the first man. This is followed by other necessary tasks, such as the creation of rivers, plants and animals.

Your move Jesus. Honestly, how is this not as plausible as any other religion?