Relocating this discussion with Moonie from the Christie thread as it's way off-topic.
DSF: What neuroscience seems to be telling us is that liberals/conservatives appear to be wired differently.
Moonie: What it does not tell us is why. There are some indications, as I recall, that brains lean left in teen times where social networks are large. My thinking runs along the lines of victim identification in childhood, whether there is something in the parent that will tolerate differences in children or whether the demand for conformity is strict and threatening and violent.
DSF: There seems to be a high correlation to a genetic marker and social activity during adolescence. To attribute conservative/liberal values as the result of victim identification in childhood or other parenting factors does not appear to be supported by any scientific evidence. Any assumptions here don't appear to have any basis in fact.
*******************************
DSF I only brought up "liberal brain defects" to mock your obsessive preoccupation with "conservative brain defects". I personally don't get this obsession you have.
M: Mock is a sort of good word. I believe that conservatives do largely as predicted by science, deny what makes them feel bad. In short, conservatives like to shame people because they were controlled and made to conform by shame and by means of ego identification with the ones who shamed them, became the purveyors of shame in turn. In short by bulking up their egos, and picking up the whip, they deny themselves any further experience of that feeling. This allows them to become such towering assholes who put others down as you see so often in these threads, insensitive vicious scum, who, of course, can't help but be who they are because they took on the Stockholm syndrome in order to survive that same viciousness directed at them as children. This, of course, makes them very difficult to treat. Nobody knows how but I see no reason why the weapon they use against others shouldn't be used against them. They became shameless in order not to feel shame, so why not remind them of what they really feel. You can see how crazy it makes them. And of course because I have had to feel terrible shame in order to grow in self understanding, mocking me doesn't buy anything. Been there and done that. Dumping shit on me can be part of their healing. My dear friend, I think you must know very well the impotency of rage. I know what rage is and to know what it is never ever to be able to get even.
DSF: I meant to use the word mock in a sort of a good word way...there was no intent to ridicule. You say that science somehow proves that conservatives deny what makes them feel bad. Please link some of these studies as I see this attribute as common to most people regardless of political ideology. Then you go on to say that conservatives like to shame people. I find this curious as we have more than a few liberals here that seem to thrive on ridiculing conservatives and being assholes. Please link any evidence you have to support this claim as well. I think you have extrapolated well beyond what neuroscience tells us and your obsession to blame conservatives for everything wrong with this world appears is more a reflection of your rage and your need for healing.
*******************************
DSF: All people are imperfect regardless of ideology and I hope you would agree with me when I say it's OK for people to be different.
M: I am here to tell you that it's OK to change. That is what makes me different.
DSF: I'm here to tell you the same thing but you don't seem to be listening.
*******************************
DSF: Both liberals and conservative have positive and complementary attributes that contribute to the evolution of our species.
M: I am curious as to why you tell me this. I have said this over and over. If you do not know I have made this point over and over my suspicion is that it may be because you hear me defensively. Only a theory, I don't know if you are aware that I say this all the time in order to alleviate the sensitivity I speak of here.
DSF: I say this because you are incessantly raving about conservative "brain defects". Conservative attributes are not brain defects. But the science tells me that you may not be able to understand this. You live in a glass house so please don't throw stones as nothing good comes from it.
*******************************
DSF: To primarily focus on what you perceive to be negative attributes of conservatives (while ignoring negative attributes of liberals) comes off as elitist, as if these perceived imperfections of others somehow validates your own political views.
M: It definitely does validate it. In the first place, I have also explained this as many times, I am pretty sure, as I did the point above. Conservatives are first out of the frying pan, liberals that make it land where reason tells them it's a good place. This insures that some survive or reflexive low level thinking when the pan is the place of danger, and some survive by not jumping into the fire. In short, when faced with an external enemy, the liberal becomes the conservatives friend, he welcomes him onto the team, but when there is no Soviet Union to fight, the conservative turns on them. This is our present condition. Conservatives are using a survival capacity to gin up imaginary enemies, build team loyalty to defeat, and destroying the country with their low level reflexive thinking. We are at peace but the reptilian brain sees fear everywhere because we were traumatized as children and have suppressed those feelings. Monsters pop up from under the bed when things are calm and there is no real threat to focus on.
DSF: This is where we disagree...you are rationalizing imo. Reflexive low level thinking? Where did that come from? How do you know with certainty that it's not reflexive high level thinking? Please be specific here with a study that proves your point as I'm wondering if you fully understand what you think you do.
*******************************
DSF: Let me clue you in on something...it doesn't.
M: It does when you factor in all the facts which is what liberal brains try to do.
DSF: Self-perceived intelligence doesn't validate political views...that's you ego rearing it's ugly head.
*******************************
DSF: Both ideologies have their extremists and crazies and both have their highly intelligent and rational folks as well.
M: But we are dealing here only with probabilities as determined by science. Conservatives are the more guilty party in present conditions.
DSF: It depends on how you define guilt. I imagine your definition and mine are quite different. I don't understand how someone who understands anything can be so quick to judge others and denigrate them at every opportunity.
*******************************
DSF: To argue one side has more crazies or intelligent people than the other is a fools game which is best left to the ideological bigots among us. You're better than this.
M: I never argue for the greater intelligence of either side, and I see the issue of crazies as largely irrelevant. I am looking at probabilities and scientific implications as I see them. The science tells me that regardless of whether liberals or conservatives are more or less correct, my point has always been that conservatives have at this time in our history created a bubble reality from which they cannot escape. They have created a Fox News and psychopathic ranters that feel millions of conservative minds lies and bull shit to the point where conservatives live in a totally different reality than rational people. They are bathed in confirmation bias day and night, and we know also that any attempt to detox their delusions only make them stronger, that their intelligence serves only rationalization, not reason and logic. And they have turned on the nation and are destroying it. Sorry, but something needs to be done. I don't know what, but I think the sooner something changes the better it will be for everybody.
DSF: Liberals have their own bubbles as well along with their psychopathic ranters who lie and deceive. Many liberals live in a totally different reality than rational people as well. They are bathed in confirmation bias day and night, and any attempt to detox their delusions only make them scream louder, that their intelligence serves only rationalization, not reason and logic. Despite their good intentions they have turned on the nation and are destroying it with their incessant lies and scandals as well as their shove-it-down-your-throat "signature legislation" which clearly illustrates the horrible problem-solving skills of liberal brains. Sorry, but something needs to be done. I don't know what, but I think the sooner something changes the better it will be for everybody.
*******************************
M: We face massive problems as a nation that can't be solved by conservative brains. The advantages of the conservative brain in present conditions are antagonistic to reason and logic and it will take those to save us. Don't be so worried about the fact that liberals can be crazy and miss what you see as dangers. Liberals can change their minds. That's what it means to be liberal, to form ones beliefs based on reason. All you have to do is present real evidence that he is wrong and he will change. But even here, conservatives are at a disadvantage because reasoning isn't their forte. Liberals are better at correcting themselves and can be persuaded by the best of liberal thinking. Also, liberals are not fanatical teem players. They tolerate differences as you wanted me to do. They like the novelty. A straight diet of conservatives or liberals would be extremely boring. Liberals don't like boredom.
DSF: We face massive problems as a nation that can't be solved by liberal brains working in their bubble. ACA is a perfect example. It's becoming quite clear that Obamacare is a failure and Democrats were indeed fanatical team players in getting this pos legislation passed. The number of people hurt by this legislation is staggering. I firmly believe that when liberal and conservative thinking is used to work though issues, a rational solution will likely be developed. But to let either of them to shut out the other is a recipe for disaster imo. Obama is going down in the history books as the most divisive president in the last 60 years. And yes, I agree, something needs to be done. Hyper-partisan ideologues will be the death of this nation.
Facebook
Twitter