What our ignorance of the truth can do...

[Moonbeam]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-...nally-say-psychologists/article1-1174363.aspx

Because of the ignorance of denial we all live in this poor woman could get no help. As the delusions of a successful ego began to crumble in the face of unpleasant reality, her real feelings began to surface and the terror that they are the real truth lead to her death. And all of this because she did not know that she hated herself and nobody else did either.

This is what the denial of our inner reality can lead to, entering the war of self loathing without the knowledge that what we believe is the deepest truth is only a feeling, that we are the worst in the world. But this truth is only a lie, a lie we do not remember being taught to feel.

She could have found her way back to real mental health had she lived in a world of knowledge. Beyond the depression, the guilt and the rage is the suffering of grief for ourselves we avoid like the plague, a way anybody can heal without the transcendence of faith or meditation or mastery over the body.

Do not build your life only on the illusions of success because that can be taken but on the understanding that beneath all of negativity you were forced to believe is your true being, a bundle of protoplasm that came into the world to smile. If you suffer you can heal. Depression rage and guilt are all ways we avoid grief, but grief. It is the awakening of compassion for the self that suffered and it brings healing.

Do not jump off a bridge to avoid what you feel because what you feel is a lie that can be healed if you will but feel it. Remember and tell others so they may have something to fight with.

 

[Jaskalas]

What our ignorance of the truth can do...

It can kill us? Indeed it can.

Do not jump off a bridge to avoid what you feel because what you feel is a lie that can be healed if you will but feel it. Remember and tell others so they may have something to fight with.

Well, I can find no fault in conveying that message.

Yet there is one thing. Peer pressure, the will of others upon you. If they insist a person suffer. Imagine having to face the lie while others insist that it is the truth. Imagine if they make repeated attempt to press the lie upon you.

That makes a simple task more daunting.

 

[Muse]

The last couple of days I've been reading more of a book I'm about 30% into on my Kindle:

Adventures in Manifesting: Health and Happiness

This deals in the issues you talk about in glorious detail. The book is a collection of contributions by people who have run the gauntlet, faced some of life's most difficult problems and ultimately triumphed. Many simply amazing stories. Many if not most of contributors are proselytizers, people who have devoted themselves to helping others after having learned many of life's most important lessons. One of the two editors is my cousin's son, Sean Patrick Simpson. In the introduction to this book and/or its companion, the two editors recount their extraordinary personal triumphs. The other book, which I also have on my Kindle, (both are early in their series) is:

Adventures in Manifesting: Success and Spirituality

 

[Greenman]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-...nally-say-psychologists/article1-1174363.aspx

Because of the ignorance of denial we all live in this poor woman could get no help. As the delusions of a successful ego began to crumble in the face of unpleasant reality, her real feelings began to surface and the terror that they are the real truth lead to her death. And all of this because she did not know that she hated herself and nobody else did either.

This is what the denial of our inner reality can lead to, entering the war of self loathing without the knowledge that what we believe is the deepest truth is only a feeling, that we are the worst in the world. But this truth is only a lie, a lie we do not remember being taught to feel.

She could have found her way back to real mental health had she lived in a world of knowledge. Beyond the depression, the guilt and the rage is the suffering of grief for ourselves we avoid like the plague, a way anybody can heal without the transcendence of faith or meditation or mastery over the body.

Do not build your life only on the illusions of success because that can be taken but on the understanding that beneath all of negativity you were forced to believe is your true being, a bundle of protoplasm that came into the world to smile. If you suffer you can heal. Depression rage and guilt are all ways we avoid grief, but grief. It is the awakening of compassion for the self that suffered and it brings healing.

Do not jump off a bridge to avoid what you feel because what you feel is a lie that can be healed if you will but feel it. Remember and tell others so they may have something to fight with.

I would say all of that as "strength is an internal structure, not an external support". But I think I'm a little more direct than you.

 

[Jaskalas]

I would say all of that as "strength is an internal structure, not an external support". But I think I'm a little more direct than you.

If we partook in a culture which did everything it could to reinforce the internal structure? Environmental factors are a concern. Not everyone is strong enough to withstand bullying, but they wouldn't have to be if there were no bullies.

 

[Moonbeam]

It can kill us? Indeed it can.



Well, I can find no fault in conveying that message.

Yet there is one thing. Peer pressure, the will of others upon you. If they insist a person suffer. Imagine having to face the lie while others insist that it is the truth. Imagine if they make repeated attempt to press the lie upon you.

That makes a simple task more daunting.

Isn't peer pressure really the need of others who are lying to themselves about their own negative feelings to keep any fracture of their own delusions away? Isn't this done out of the same ignorance I spoke of? But no doubt at all that this only adds to the difficulties. You start seeing a deeper reality and people tell you you're nuts. "Don't go to that place where you might get healthy so I don't have to face such a possibility."

 

[Moonbeam]

If we partook in a culture which did everything it could to reinforce the internal structure? Environmental factors are a concern. Not everyone is strong enough to withstand bullying, but they wouldn't have to be if there were no bullies.

To my mind Greenman was so 'direct' here that I had no idea what he meant. I have no idea what strength as an internal structure means. What I heard was ego which I see as the problem, not the strength, but I don't know.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

You are blind to the truth, Moonbeam. Open your eyes. It saddens me to see you like you are.

 

[SlickSnake]

Here is something I wrote not that long ago. I wrote it because my town is constantly in turmoil of one sort or another most of the time, and I posted it on a local website. I had to keep it under 2000 characters, to post it without cutting it. So I spent several hours messing with it to get it the proper length. But I think it applies here.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

My take on that is: "You can lead a man to truth, but you can't make him think."

What I see revealed in many of you by your hateful lashing out and ongoing angry attack posts is a very great and all consuming evil force and a harsh coldness that completely binds your souls and blinds your eyes, ears and minds to truth and goodness.

And since that bottomless dark emptiness inside you can't ever be filled, you tend to seek solace and affirmation in others who act much like yourselves.

An important part of your dark affirmation is that you achieve a brief sense of hollow satisfaction when you denigrate and shun anyone who might try to cast some insight and truthful light upon your dark sinful hearts.

But it doesn't have to be this way for any of you. Being poor does not also mean you have to be miserable and angry as well. Ask yourselves why you try to pass along your frustration over personal failures to others like an evil contagious disease you eagerly spread just to justify your twisted existence.

Why do you do this to yourselves? If it's to stupidly praise the Devil, he is laughing at you, not with you, so it can't be that. So why? Why do you stubbornly chose over and over again to let the slow poison of evil intentions completely wreck your souls? And why do you chose to also permanently damage your children so they grow up to be angry, hateful and self destructive just like you are?

And why are you helping to destroy the planet before your children even inherit it? Why even bother to have children at all, if you are just going to give them a plundered, poisoned and polluted world that will only lead to the extinction of life and mankind?

All the unsolvable problems we think we have with races, politics, religions and corporations all invariably lead right back to you and your state of mind.

Abusing alcohol and drugs are a cowards crutch, and as soon as you are sober again, the reality of your many failures in life comes right back and haunts you again, until the next fix.

That is no way to live, by hiding out from yourself and others behind a cloudy haze of intoxication. Doing that will never cure you of your emptiness, or make you a better person. It will only keep weakening you, one drink or pill or hit at a time, until one fateful day all the anger, hate and pain goes away for good. Should you be congratulated when that happens, or cursed?

So then what will you be remembered for by others that you did with your life? Is humiliating people by making up lies and telling hurtful jokes and mocking others you don't even know anything about how you want to be remembered when you are dead? And you will die one day because science will not save you, only prolong your agony a little.

Following the other suicidal lemmings over the dark cliff is not going to help you find enlightenment, and it only helps to make the other blind lemmings feel justified for their evil actions by leading you astray and away from your one true self that you prefer to keep buried and stashed away, like a lost diamond in the rough, that you keep hidden away behind shield of ugly tattoos to pretend to look tough.

Anyone can change their miserable life and thaw out their evil cold hearts right now. And the only one stopping that positive change in you is YOU. It's not your wife's or ex-wives or kids fault, or your parents fault, or even your bosses fault that you can't cope with your life without drugs and putting other people down, it's YOUR FAULT.

And until you realize that fact and finally get over all the immature lying, hatred, and anger then this planet and mankind is completely doomed.

I know if you are reading this it may sound a bit preachy, but this is not meant to be a religious sermon. It's just meant to be a wake up call that you don't have to wallow in your own filth with others just as dirty and sinful as you are just to make yourself feel better.

 

[Moonbeam]

Here is something I wrote not that long ago. I wrote it because my town is constantly in turmoil of one sort or another most of the time, and I posted it on a local website. I had to keep it under 2000 characters, to post it without cutting it. So I spent several hours messing with it to get it the proper length. But I think it applies here.

This is the way the world is from one perspective, a world bereft of love. It is this truth that kills love. But if you take this suffering and feel it as grief, you will be free of it to forgive. To forgive is to love, and when you love truly it is you, yourself, that brings love into the world. The light will shine from within you and that will be enough. The light is the light and it has many names. Love is one of them.

 

[shortylickens]

Why do you keep posting philosophy threads in P&N?

 

[Moonbeam]

You are blind to the truth, Moonbeam. Open your eyes. It saddens me to see you like you are.

When a Bedouin arrived for the first time in a city someone offered him Halva. 'Ah', he said, 'This must be experience.' 'What?' said the Halva seller.
'Oh yes', said the Bedouin, In my village we have a saying that there are two things in life, dates and experience, and this isn't dates.'

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Why do you keep posting philosophy threads in P&N?

He wouldn't get as many replies/views in the correct forum.

 

[Moonbeam]

Why do you keep posting philosophy threads in P&N?

What you call philosophy I call the analysis of current events. Did you read my link. It was all about current philosophy in the news, an analysis I found short sighted regarding the fate of a celebrity and the shortsightedness of which I thought posed social danger. Why are we here if not to deepen our understanding of things in the news and politics. Did you have some objection to what I did. Maybe you entered the thread looking to be offended. Who can say?

 

[Moonbeam]

He wouldn't get as many replies/views in the correct forum.

All you do when you say such things is to reveal your jealousy of those who get attention and your own lusting for it. What you see in me is the truth you hide from yourself. This would be true even if you are right, which you are not.

You slime the world when you act this way. You make every gift of charity to the poor a bid for self aggrandizement and attention. Look at me, I'm going to heaven because I had a moment of empathy for the poor. Fuck you. You're welcome.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

All you do when you say such things is to reveal your jealousy of those who get attention and your own lusting for it. What you see in me is the truth you hide from yourself. This would be true even if you are right, which you are not.

You slime the world when you act this way. You make every gift of charity to the poor a bid for self aggrandizement and attention. Look at me, I'm going to heaven because I had a moment of empathy for the poor. Fuck you. You're welcome.

This song reminds me of your mindset.

Alan Parsons Project - Psychobabble

Tell you 'bout a dream that I have every night
Tell you 'bout a Dream that I have every night
It ain't kodachrome and it isn't black and white
Take me for a fool if you feel that's right
Well I'm Never on my own but there's nobody in sight

I don't know if I'm scared of the Lightning
Trying to reach me
I can't turn to the left or the right
I'm too scared to run and I'm too weak to fight
But I don't Care it's all psychobabble crap to me

Tell you 'bout a dream that I have every night
It's in dolby stereo but I never hear it right
Take me for a fool well that's alright
Well I see the way to go But there isn't any light

I don't know why I'm scared of the lightning
Trying to reach me
Help me to find what I don't want to know
You're taking me There but I don't want to go
I don't care it's all Psychobabble crap to me
Psychobabble all psychobabble
Psychobabble all psychobabble
I don't care it's all psychobabble crap to me

You're readin' my mind you won't look in my eyes
You say I do things that I don't Realise
But I don't care it's all psychobabble crap to me
Psychobabble all psychobabble
Psychobabble all psychobabble
You're lighting a scene that's faded to black
I threw it away cause I don't want it back
But I don't care it's all psychobabble crap

 

[Moonbeam]

This song reminds me of your mindset.

Alan Parsons Project - Psychobabble

I get it. You love the darkness. You passed a psychological test for work on nuclear reactors so you know everything there is to know about the mind. Now because you can't reason properly, you see anything that might point facts of the mind you don't know as an attack on your sanity. Wonderful. We should all live in your cave.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I get it. You love the darkness. You passed a psychological test for work on nuclear reactors so you know everything there is to know about the mind. Now because you can't reason properly, you see anything that might point facts of the mind you don't know as an attack on your sanity. Wonderful. We should all live in your cave.

Not passed a psychological test for work, I've passed more than 30 evaluations over the last 25 years. Each nuclear power plant requires a psychological evaluation to gain access to the plant, these evaluations must be done every 3 years to maintain access qualifications.

I see perfectly that you want everyone else to consider themselves sick to make you feel more normal.

 

[Jaskalas]

Is our lust for ripping into each other not a sickness?

Did this woman not die from shame, a shame not just borne of her actions but elevated by those around her? If they were not inclined to smell blood and ravage the weak and the vulnerable, then perhaps she would have found the strength to live.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Or if she had inner strength she wouldn't have allowed the words of others to control her emotions. When I was growing up you never heard of children or adults (usually someone with mental illness that committed suicide) for that matter committing suicide because someone bullied them. You knew that somewhere along the line there was going to be someone that would bully you, normally if the bully kept up the bullying you either lived with it or put the bully in their place. If you did the later in most cases the bully stopped and moved on.

 

[LunarRay]

Why do you keep posting philosophy threads in P&N?

If you think about it you might find that our Politics has motivators that affect our citizens... When we cut off Unemployment Insurance that actually is a positive for the economy as well as helping the less fortunate which a prudent government ought to be about doing we have to ask ourselves what is the real underlying basis for those actions.

I think Moonbeam is not really speaking to the folks he responds to although he does include them... he's pointing out that you must look deep and without bias at the folks in authority... What makes them tick...
Before you can do that you have to be without bias though... and that bias is what each has tucked away and it festers there and manifests itself in actions and thoughts...

Consider how a good Christian or Jew or Muslim can see fit to enslave another or justify terminating others or simply believing it is just fine for some folks to starve while they eat cake.... Something really dark and murky must be at play if the result is dark and murky... But.... many will find all manner of rationalization to protect that dark and murky ness...

What is right... what is what Jesus would do if he was sitting in Congress today?.... You don't even have to consider him the son of God... just a person who had an idea regarding his fellow people...

It is Politics.... And I wish it were News

 

[cubby1223]

I get the sense that this forum is Moonbeam's free test subjects to try his theories on, in his quest to turn himself into a professional motivational speaker or something similar.

"What do I need to do to grab people's attention and make them take me seriously?"

Step 1: Always maintain an image of superiority
Step 2: Always put down and insult those who disagree with me
Step 3: Convince everyone that those who disagree are damaged people
Step 4: Provide them hope and a path to salvation/redemption through my knowledge
Step 5: ...
Step 6: Profit

The real question in this thread is what is step 5?

 

[Moonbeam]

Not passed a psychological test for work, I've passed more than 30 evaluations over the last 25 years. Each nuclear power plant requires a psychological evaluation to gain access to the plant, these evaluations must be done every 3 years to maintain access qualifications.

I see perfectly that you want everyone else to consider themselves sick to make you feel more normal.

Now you're telling me your using your 25 years of evaluations because you want everybody to consider themselves sick to make you feel more normal. Jesus, are we ever going to get to the depths you're willing to sink to. The difference between us is that I can see my need to feel superior to others because I have experienced my hatred of myself. And because I know what I am capable of, it doesn't manipulate me out of the dark, my own unawareness of what I really feel. You, on the other hand, hiding behind an enormous ego, are afraid to see how you feel, this buried fear of your own madness, and because you repress it and won't acknowledge your dark side, it controls what you see. Everything is psychobabble for you because these are truths you don't want to face. I wouldn't trust you as far as I can throw you because I am aware in myself of the self that is you also and you hide from, and I don't want the suppression of that self to be the root cause of my motivations. I am not better than you. I am just like you and I know it but you don't. Also, because I can see I can choose and you can't because you are unaware of what is going on.

If you ever start to see that you are me, you're going to jump off a building because you are so ashamed of yourself. Don't be. I'm wonderful. Trust me.

 

[SlickSnake]

I get the sense that this forum is Moonbeam's free test subjects to try his theories on, in his quest to turn himself into a professional motivational speaker or something similar.

"What do I need to do to grab people's attention and make them take me seriously?"

Step 1: Always maintain an image of superiority
Step 2: Always put down and insult those who disagree with me
Step 3: Convince everyone that those who disagree are damaged people
Step 4: Provide them hope and a path to salvation/redemption through my knowledge
Step 5: ...
Step 6: Profit

The real question in this thread is what is step 5?

 

[Muse]

All you do when you say such things is to reveal your jealousy of those who get attention and your own lusting for it. What you see in me is the truth you hide from yourself. This would be true even if you are right, which you are not.

You slime the world when you act this way. You make every gift of charity to the poor a bid for self aggrandizement and attention. Look at me, I'm going to heaven because I had a moment of empathy for the poor. Fuck you. You're welcome.

You know, I think you very much over reacted to the comment that engendered your response quoted above. It's no sin to post in a forum where you are most likely to get a response. I sometimes have a post in mind when the "correct" forum is not obvious. I may pick the forum where I figure I'm most likely to get a (timely) response. No, I'm not putting you down!
- - - -
And Slicksnake, I like your 2000 character treatise. Reasonable enough.
- - - -
Moonbeam, et al: You know, truth seeking is out of fashion, it has been for quite a while in most circles. That has never stopped me, however. My experience has been teaching me that only the distressed or enlightened seek the truth. It's often not easily obtained.

Some quotations that concern truth:

"Man's mind is so formed that it is far more susceptible to falsehood than to truth." - Desiderius Erasmus
- - - -
"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." - Albert Einstein

"Truth is what stands the test of experience. " - Albert Einstein