What? No government shutdown threads?

[dank69]

As usual, there is no shutdown coming.

I can't believe people still fall for this. Do you not pay any attention to history? Like really none whatsoever?

A) I think there is a low chance of a shutdown this time.
B) Speaking of history, try researching "all the way back" to 1995.

 

[kia75]

So what can the Democrats do to placate the Tea Party and avoid a government shutdown?


Defund Obamacare? That's impossible, millions of small businesses are depending on Obamacare for their employee's needs next year, millions of Americans are depending on Obamacare. It would be a giant disaster.

Cut government spending? This is already happening with the sequester.

What more can be done to placate the Tea Party to avoid a government shutdown?

 

[Balt]

I think there are a few outcomes here. Obamacare actually being unfunded is not one of them. As it is Obama's 'legacy', I give it a 0.0% probability of being repealed through any means during his presidency. I assume Boehner knows this. So the possible outcomes I foresee are:

1) After the Senate rejects the House budget and sends it back to the House w/ no de-funding of Obamacare, Boehner will put it up for a straight-up vote and let the chips fall where they may. Some Republicans may vote for it and give it a majority, possibly putting their nomination/seat in jeopardy in 2014 from a candidate to their right. (shutdown averted)

2) After the Senate rejects the House budget and sends it back to the House w/ no de-funding of Obamacare, almost every Republican will vote against it after Boehner puts it up for straight-up vote. Perhaps he got assurances of this during the closed-door meetings of the Republican caucus. Boehner then has more 'legitimacy' to insist that Obamacare be de-funded. I think a shutdown would last longest under these circumstances. (shutdown not averted)

3) Boehner blocks a vote on the Senate version entirely because he's worried about Republican defectors. Takes a lot of heat for blocking an up-and-down vote, and eventually capitulates. (shutdown not averted)

 

[Engineer]

If the house and republicans hold fast on this and shutdown the government...and the stock market sinks, will the 'investor class' put pressure on them to get by this? I would think, sadly, that the investor class has a lot more pull than most of us peasant folks.

 

[kia75]

If the Stock Market crashes then Everyone will put pressure on the Republicans to end it.

It's not just the Mitt Romneys of the world but the couple that has a 401k and hopes to retire soon, Small business owners who might have to fire some workers, etc.

That's the folly of the Republican shutdown, such a move hurts everyone for no real gain.

 

[michal1980]

Obama already came out and said he wont negotiate on the debt ceiling. So why should republicans even try to be reasonable with the messiah?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ama-i-will-not-negotiate-on-the-debt-ceiling/

 

[Engineer]

Obama already came out and said he wont negotiate on the debt ceiling. So why should republicans even try to be reasonable with the messiah?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ama-i-will-not-negotiate-on-the-debt-ceiling/

Because they will get blamed for it?

(hint: New polls already showing the GOP @ over 50% will get the blame while Obama is in the lower 30's).

 

[michal1980]

Because they will get blamed for it?

(hint: New polls already showing the GOP @ over 50% will get the blame while Obama is in the lower 30's).

of course they republicans will get blamed for it. The libs have the media in the their back pocket.

Just look at all the headlines this week. Did they say 'republicans extend government funding for 3 months'? no

All the headlines were 'republicans defund obamacare'


When the media is so biased its hard to win any argument. Its like playing a game where the ref's are all paid for by the other team.

 

[IronWing]

It is sad that the House can't take a short break from attempting to defund the ACA and maybe use the time to defund the NSA and the DHS. So far, all outrage, no action.

 

[Paul98]

of course they republicans will get blamed for it. The libs have the media in the their back pocket.

Just look at all the headlines this week. Did they say 'republicans extend government funding for 3 months'? no

All the headlines were 'republicans defund obamacare'


When the media is so biased its hard to win any argument. Its like playing a game where the ref's are all paid for by the other team.

Yes they will get that point across more if more people are saying it. But you don't win an argument because the media says so, you win an argument when you are correct.

They have already voted to defund obamacare a bunch of other times, they know it won't pass the senate. Thus where the argument comes from.

 

[Engineer]

it is sad that the house can't take a short break from attempting to defund the aca and maybe use the time to defund the nsa and the dhs. So far, all outrage, no action.

qfmft!

 

[Paul98]

Is there a record for voting something through the house that they know won't get any further like defunding obamacare?

 

[michal1980]

I just stopped having conversations with those who don't understand what the debt ceiling is and how it works. If they are too stupid to look it up and understand it then they are too stupid to talk to in the first place.

I also understand partisan call outs that have occurred with every debt ceiling raise, where the non ruling party always complains that raising the debt ceiling is irresponsible until their party is in power. It's done to appease the idiots of their party who don't understand what's going on.

The only people that don't understand it, are those that always want to raise it.

Is it about paying our bills? Yes.

But leaving it at that is ignoring the fact that congress not only has the power to spend money. But the power to not spend money.

All they have to do to overt a debt ceiling problem is cut spending.

 

[michal1980]

Yes they will get that point across more if more people are saying it. But you don't win an argument because the media says so, you win an argument when you are correct.

They have already voted to defund obamacare a bunch of other times, they know it won't pass the senate. Thus where the argument comes from.

If you want to win in the polls, you have to have the media behind you. The republicans, outside of Fox. Have no propaganda msm on their side.

 

[Engineer]

The only people that don't understand it, are those that always want to raise it.

So when a Democrat is in power, the they don't understand it and when a Republican is in power, they don't understand it, because that's exactly how it works in DC.

 

[michal1980]

So when a Democrat is in power, the they don't understand it and when a Republican is in power, they don't understand it, because that's exactly how it works in DC.

See Obama's speech on the debt ceiling when he was a senator.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/debtlimit.asp

"The fact that we're here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means 'The buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit."


And today who's fault is it? Well Obama once again blames republicans. So when a republican was president, it was the presidents fault. When he's the president its the republicans fault.

This brilliant line of logic coming from what the left claims is one of the smartest people on the planet.

 

[Engineer]

See Obama's speech on the debt ceiling when he was a senator.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/debtlimit.asp

"The fact that we're here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means 'The buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit."


And today who's fault is it? Well Obama once again blames republicans. So when a republican was president, it was the presidents fault. When he's the president its the republicans fault.

This brilliant line of logic coming from what the left claims is one of the smartest people on the planet.

You're spending all of your time blaming Obama when in reality, it's the same on both sides. When the GOP are in power, they have absolutely no issue raising the debt ceiling and the Democrats are crying foul. When the Dems are in power, they have no issue raising the debt ceiling and the GOP is crying foul. It's very clear that this happens year in and year out...but you knew that. You might not admit it but you know it, deep down in your soul. Hypocrisy runs amok on both sides of the aisle...

 

[michal1980]

You're spending all of your time blaming Obama when in reality, it's the same on both sides. When the GOP are in power, they have absolutely no issue raising the debt ceiling and the Democrats are crying foul. When the Dems are in power, they have no issue raising the debt ceiling and the GOP is crying foul. It's very clear that this happens year in and year out...but you knew that. You might not admit it but you know it, deep down in your soul.

I agree with you on that. And any republican that doesn't stand for spending cuts. IMHO should be out of a job.

There's no hope at all for democrats because the only thing they want to cut is the military.

 

[Paul98]

The problem is that we need to cut spending when things are good, so that when things do go bad we have money and can increase spending to deal with it.

 

[Fern]

What? No government shutdown threads?

I don't think many care. We've all seen this 'movie' too many times.

And I'm another one that feels this is just a show for the benefit of those incumbent Republicans in the House who would otherwise face a primary challenge.

Frankly seems like a fairly stupid move. I would think that instead they would seek to postpone the individual parts to gain symmetry with the employer parts. I would then think Obamacare would be at the forefront of the '14 elections. But hey, I'm not a politician so what do I know?

Fern

 

[Agent11]

Hypothetically what if the Senate sends down a version with Obama care suspended, yet promising funds in 4 years pending amendments?

 

[Matt1970]

The problem is that we need to cut spending when things are good, so that when things do go bad we have money and can increase spending to deal with it.

But that never happens. When times are good, revenue is up so we spend more. When times are bad, we spend more to stimulate the economy.

 

[boomerang]

 

[Balt]

Hypothetically what if the Senate sends down a version with Obama care suspended, yet promising funds in 4 years pending amendments?

I think the House's 'compromise' bill will have an Obamacare delay rather than outright repeal/de-funding.

I don't think the Senate or the president will go for it though. Approving a delay this year will only lead to the demand of a delay next year and so on and so forth until Obama is out of office and they repeal it entirely.

 

[Jhhnn]

As usual, there is no shutdown coming.

I can't believe people still fall for this. Do you not pay any attention to history? Like really none whatsoever?

I also suspect that the teahadists are just puffing their chests. OTOH, they really do live in a bubble, one shaped by the think tanks & institutes of the far right. Other than the Israelis, they have the best propaganda in the business, and it shows. They seem to even believe it themselves.

Take a look at it from the outside, as if you weren't American. Who stands to win from a shutdown, from welching on US govt obligations?

Holders of US securities, that's who. They're the safest investment in the world, and the backbone of nearly every great portfolio in existence. OTOH, yields are currently dismal, driven by strong demand for them. Every rollover of old bonds for new gives lower yields.

What to do? Create a situation where their safety is brought into question, forcing yields up. Better yet, do so under false pretenses of defunding the ACA, a proposition driven by the ideology of smaller govt at any cost. You have an army of such idiots at your disposal, so keep 'em whipped up in an emotional & ideological froth. You also have the fact that the Repub leadership is scared to death that the ACA will actually work & be popular. They're very, very heavily invested in preventing that from happening. It would body slam their whole ideological premise into the dirt.

Oh, yeh- Use derivatives to bet on failure, even as you force it to happen, and nobody will be the wiser, either.