What makes a server?

[cerebusPu]

FYI,

the pentium 4's at the moment are not able to run together on the same motherboard. the fastest ones that can do that are the xeons.

if you want an idea of what server hardware is like:

i have a dell server sitting on my right that has dual P3-933mhz processors. with onboard scsi, 512 rdram, dual (redundant) 400watt power supply. it is in a rackmount case, about 2 inches high. heavy and noisy as hell.

iuf you want to run an exchange server for 10 peeps in the office, you wouldnt need a real server.

just grab something with standard hardware (decent speed, 512megs of ram, lots of harddrive space) and it will do. i suggest getting it from dell or somewhere with next day service.

just run win2000 on it with MS exchange server installed. you will also need a backup solution to backup all the mail and stuff. the backup solution is probly the most important thing.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Keego

Originally posted by: notfred

However, I'm not just an 'employee' here and actually do care about the money being spent

Forgive me if I'm wroing,but this is what I'm picturing:

You're about 17 years old, either your mother or your father runs a small business, with about 10 employees. They have no IT staff, and since you are interested in computers, your parents asked you to help them decide on an email server for thier business?

does it matter how he learns?

I bet he would have gotten better help in General Hardware. Oh well!

I didn't sayit's bad that he's learning, I just wanted to know if I was right

 

[flot]

What it sounds like you're talking about is, for instance, the difference between going to dell's website and clicking on "small business servers" vs "workstations" or "home computers."

Typically what you see in "server class" machines are the following:

- Higher quality components (power supplies come to mind)
- Faster components (SCSI instead of IDE, or at least 7200 rpm IDE vs 5400)
- Possibly longer warranty
- Little to no concern for video performance
- Special attention paid to cooling (bigger, louder fans)
- More modular case design
- More stable / less "exciting" motherboard and chipsets
- More focus on business add-ons instead of home (you'll get a 10/100 nic instead of a modem, etc)

The price difference does not have to be large. In many cases, a "small business server" will be cheaper than a "home" system because it will not have a fast video card, crazy sound card and speakers, etc, etc.

For a small office, get a "Business workstation" or "small business server" - you should be able to pick something up (Even from dell) for under $600-700. It doesn't sound like you need anything fancy, so get a good solid computer.

 

[Jimmyjammer]

Forgive me if I'm wroing,but this is what I'm picturing:

You're about 17 years old, either your mother or your father runs a small business, with about 10 employees. They have no IT staff, and since you are interested in computers, your parents asked you to help them decide on an email server for thier business?

Close but no cigar. Quite a lot older than 17, travelling the world working as a software contractor and have recently landed a job with a small company that I've (via software programming) helped grow quite a bit. Now they're running into hardware issues which isn't my area of expertise. Most of my knowledge is gleaned from watching server admins in my other jobs doing their stuff. You're right about the 'interest in computers' but only in so far as that I'm interested in learning about how other aspects of the scene work. I'm out of my depth here and admitting as much, but I pick things up fast and have already learned lots since the first post on this thread

 

[kt]

Although it appears that you can simply put together a suped up desktop and pass it as a server, I wouldn't recommend going that route. You can easily pick up a Dell low end server reasonably cheap. There are a couple of reasons for doing that, but the most important one is you got someone to help when there's a hardware failure. You don't want to be the one they turn to when there's a hardware failure since you built the machine. Just my 2¢.

 

[LikeLinus]

I'd buy a Dell server for the warranty part first thing. They have same day/next day business warranties and can support it better than it appears anyone in the company can.

 

[Paulson]

here's my paulsonator.com server

 

[Keego]

Originally posted by: Paulson
here's my paulsonator.com server

I hate that server!

 

[IcemanJer]

Originally posted by: Paulson
here's my paulsonator.com server

accckkk.... Compaq!!!

 

[Paulson]

I built my main rig thinking it was going to be my server, but I just couldn't stand to think that I built such a fine computer and was still going to have some compaq as my main one... so I swapped parts and the compaq is the server...

no problems though... linux can turn any pile of crap into something that works lol

 

[Sunner]

Do yourself a favour, and get a real server.

My choice would be a Compaq, since I considder them the best x86 servers out there, my second choice would be IBM, then Dell.
You should be able to find a pretty decent config with two HD's(for RAID-1), some 512 MB of RAM(more than sufficent for 10 users, even with XChange), and dual powersupplies(maybe overkill if your reliability demands arent that great, but it doesn't cost much, so why not?).

Don't worry about processing power, most server related tasks are far more dependant on disk IO, amount and speed of the RAM, and system IO.

If you get something like the Proliant DL380 you'll have some room to grow, and you'll have a damn good server at a pretty decent price, and in the end, $5.000 isn't a whole lot when compared to personel costs, etc, it's well spent money.
Trust me, I know all about what happens when people go cheap, you'll be happy for a little while, but in the long run it'll come back and bite you in the ass.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Software makes a server.

Get a major name brand for support and warranty and whatnot. Get a dual processor capable board (or more) but only use 1 processor (future upgrades). Get SCSI with atleast 2 disks. Get atleast 512mB of ram. Dual powersupplies should round that off.

Back ont he software side, 10 people doesnt really justify exchange does it?

 

[Evadman]

If I were in your position:

I would build a dual AMD computer. Probably in the 1600+ to 2000+ range. 1 gb of ECC ram minumum, ( probably registered) and four 80 GB 7200 RPM 8 MB cashe ata 100 hard drives in raid 5 configuration. Redundant 400 watt ATX power supplies with a huge UPS. Aprox hardware cost: $2-3k or so.

If need be, you can build 2 and make them totaly redundant, and still be right around 5-6k.

If it is not your money, ( I know how you want to save it though ) you may be better off going with a Dell, just so you do not get called on the carpet.

 

[simms]

Good thread, I learned a lot about servers.

 

[lowtech1]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
depends on what kind of server you want, a game server you can run on a lame old desktop machine, the same for a file server. It's when you get into corporate level servers, that come on racks, like the kind Sun makes, that you see the real goodies at work.

Cool, ok so say if I needed a server for an office with about 10 employees all running Outlook 2000. I've read a bit about Exchange server and the hardware it requires and I'm trying to decide if we should get a proper server or just buy a very powerful desktop and have it full of RAM and HDD.

The price jump seems to be huge and I'm not keen on buying stuff we don't need.

You don't really need a server if the office that small. You might want to look into creating a workgroup and use a dedicated workstation as server WinNT/2K workstation allow 10 concurrent connections

Exchange is a piece of garbage that MS convince so many companies to base their businesses on it. Get the ISP to host your email if you don?t need to exchange calendar, or uses the much more robust sendmail/qmail/postfix and many other free/commercial packages.

You don't have to purchase a server from a reputable vendor, but the warranties & their services can save your hide if the hardware ever fail. I personally prefer building my own server in a small network even if it take more time than of the shelf box, because I want to know what go into a box.

For me the most important piece of hardware is a solid mobo that has been time tested in the market & upgrade ability. Stability is much more important than the little gain in speed with over tweak or cheap mobo. Good hdd array, but it doesn't really matter if it is IDE or SCSI (with multiple controllers) as long as you have a good backup & redundance scheme. ECC ram is not nessarily needed unless it is a scientific workstation or database, but it is nice to have lots of them. A nice NIC card preferably an Intel Pro card. A nice stable powerful power supply or dual unit. And, last but not least is a nice UPS. I will very likely will not save much money builing my own x86 server compare to prebuilt, but I can feel comportable that the Mobo I choses is the best of quality I can get.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer
Just wondering, I've been looking at servers and the specs are always a lot lower then similarly priced desktops (lower speed, less HDD etc) and I'm curious.

What makes a server a server? I mean, why are they so expensive when you get (seemingly) a lot less oomph!?

Are they built differently, or more stable? Do they run an OS? I'm clueless here, anyone wanna help?

they dont run an OS.

 

[Daniel]

Exchange is a piece of garbage that MS convince so many companies to base their businesses on it. Get the ISP to host your email if you don?t need to exchange calendar, or uses the much more robust sendmail/qmail/postfix and many other free/commercial packages.

I agree that for 10 users full exchange server is a bit much but it depends on how they will grow, aside from licensing though is there a reason why you said exchange is such garbage?

 

[lowtech1]

Originally posted by: Daniel

Exchange is a piece of garbage that MS convince so many companies to base their businesses on it. Get the ISP to host your email if you don?t need to exchange calendar, or uses the much more robust sendmail/qmail/postfix and many other free/commercial packages.

I agree that for 10 users full exchange server is a bit much but it depends on how they will grow, aside from licensing though is there a reason why you said exchange is such garbage?

Exchange is tie in with Windows therefor it create havoc if the hardware ever fail, because of the ACL & SID. Compare to hardware failure Linux is much more robust against such thing. Exchange may have a nice GUI for the beginner admin with a few extra features such as calendar sharing that SUSE mail server & CommuniGate Pro also have with outlook compatibility (qmail or postfix may have that feature by now). And, last but not least is that Exchange is no where as secures as Qmail, Postfix, SUSE mail server & CommuniGate Pro.

 

[PlatinumGold]

hate to do it, but the terminology and definitions really stink.

basically, what your referring to as a SERVER, is just a PC designed to run a SERVER OS, Usually Windows 2000 Server. A Server OS is like a Network OS but it has more responsibilities.

along with a SERVER OS, you also have, Print Servers, Game Servers, Web Servers, these are all different SERVICES, like applications but designed to be accessed by many clients via Network or Internet.

When designing a PC to run your Server OS or to use MS Terminology, your Domain Controller, you want the machine to be as fail safe as possible. Hence you have the Hot Swappable SCSI hd, ECC Ram, dual Power supplies, Hot Swappable PCI Cards are also possible. the more fail safe and less down time you need the more money you'll spend on these types of redundancies.

the most basic pc to run a server OS is really just any PC. you can run any PC as a server IF there is nothing mission critical going on and if you want to use it just to practice on.

 

[Tripleshot]

Originally posted by: Jimmyjammer

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
depends on what kind of server you want, a game server you can run on a lame old desktop machine, the same for a file server. It's when you get into corporate level servers, that come on racks, like the kind Sun makes, that you see the real goodies at work.

Cool, ok so say if I needed a server for an office with about 10 employees all running Outlook 2000. I've read a bit about Exchange server and the hardware it requires and I'm trying to decide if we should get a proper server or just buy a very powerful desktop and have it full of RAM and HDD.

The price jump seems to be huge and I'm not keen on buying stuff we don't need.

Get a dual processor Intel or AMD mobo and run a promise IDE raid 5 controller and at least 3 identical drives ans set up SBS ($1500). SBS is Small business server. Irt comes with a full featered windows 2000 server, Exchange, and SQL and many more server elements. It is designed for the small office you described. The IDE drives from IBM will work just fine for what you are going to do. If you where a 200 client server with mission critical needs, I might make a different hardware/software recomendation. But from what you have said here, that is my profesional opinion. I will wave my customary consulting fees because you are an ATOT fan. I would be glad to sell you the system and OS if you desire.