Originally posted by: Entity
Are there any good free C++ IDEs for Windows, or should I reinstall RH or Mandrake?
Rob
Yeah, try Dev-C++
http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html
Yeah, try Dev-C++
http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html
Crusty
Lifer
- Sep 30, 2001
- 12,684
- 2
- 81
Lets see here....I started of with C/C++ in high school. We also touched on some Pascal, Basic, Assembly, Haskel, and Java.
I would consider myself very good at programming in c/c++ and Java. I have a very strong base in OOP. Next semester I am taking an Assembly class, I cant wait!!!
I started off my first programming with VI and GCC.
If I were you I would start off using Borland Turbo c++ 3.0 and find a simple trivial program to write. Write first the dumbest way you can think of, just make sure it works. Then spend some time and try to optimize it, make it cleaner.
Whoever made the comment about Java not being applicable in the real world is an idiot. How many modern, high-level, and powerfull languages can you write ONE piece of code and have it work on ALL different OS's AND platforms that support the Java VM?
I would consider myself very good at programming in c/c++ and Java. I have a very strong base in OOP. Next semester I am taking an Assembly class, I cant wait!!!
I started off my first programming with VI and GCC.
If I were you I would start off using Borland Turbo c++ 3.0 and find a simple trivial program to write. Write first the dumbest way you can think of, just make sure it works. Then spend some time and try to optimize it, make it cleaner.
Whoever made the comment about Java not being applicable in the real world is an idiot. How many modern, high-level, and powerfull languages can you write ONE piece of code and have it work on ALL different OS's AND platforms that support the Java VM?
Scheme is horrible. Teaching tool my ass. Unstructured jibberish. We use it at Georgia Tech for one class, intro to comp sci. I know MIT uses it.
C code is not platform independent, even if you have the same compiler on both systems.
C++ -- ditto
Perl and Python and interpreted languages and get hit by all that entails.
However, arguing that Java is powerful because it spans across all different OSes is possibly the WORST argument in favor of Java ever. In other words, Java is good because you have developers writing code for hardware that doesn't actually exist.
I think the best argument pro - Java is a little piece of software called Resin...and I leave it at that.
FeathersMcGraw
Diamond Member
- Oct 17, 2001
- 4,041
- 1
- 0
Originally posted by: Entity
I've learned / am still learning PHP, which has been relatively easy for me. I've got the basic principles of OO code down (though I know PHP isn't strong in OO support), and can do most of what I need to do for web applications in PHP. For some reason, though, I just feel like I'm missing something; it could be all the comments I hear from perl/C++ guys about how badly PHP sucks, etc., but I just want to understand how to code better -- write tighter, more efficient, code, etc. What would be a good starting point for learning stuff like this?
For example, trying to understand when it is better to use the ternary operator, switch, or lines of if statements. That kind of stuff.
The answer to "what is more efficient" isn't really an easy one, since most modern languages are going to pass your code through an interpreter or compiler, and it's that intermediate layer of software which is going to do a lot of that optimization for you. What is efficient in one language may not necessary translate to another language or platform.
That's not to say that there aren't some basic principles which are mostly common across languages: remove invariant code from loops, reduce unnecessary memory allocations (and clean up the necessary ones when you're done with them!), try to avoid recopying data, etc. but even these are not hard and fast rules.
I'm probably going to get flamed for promoting code bloat, but I think I've worked on enough large-scale projects to say that the best programming practices to learn are those which make your code decoupled, isolatable, "bite-sized", and above all, readable. The sacrifice of some additional memory for an additional class hierarchy, for example, or the additional CPU time needed to adapt a general-purpose utility class is far outweighed by the ability for you to make timely changes to your code and have good assurance that you won't be impacting the other pieces of code which connect to it.
Hmmm ... MIT starts out with Scheme, Berkeley starts out with scheme ... SICP is considered to be one of the greatest books in 'understanding' programming. Sure maybe you wont be an 31337 h4X0r with scheme but you absolutely will be a better programmer. Sometimes in java I REALLY wish I had a map function.
To the original poster ... one of the things REALY computer scientists will tell you is that programming languages != programming logic. A language is like a tool. You don't learn carpentry by learning how to use a screwdriver. In your original post you wanted to know what is more efficient ... a switch or nested ifs ... well the important thing to know there is WHAT your compiler does when you it sees such a statement (in this case, most languages will generate VERY similar code ... but the lesson is still applicable). If you are interested in being a computer scientist, and not someone who read the latest O'Reilly book read SICP. Learn scheme and you'll have a great foundation for the rest of your life. If you're interested in OOP then grab a STRONG OO language (read java ... ideally smalltalk but lets be SOMEWHAT practical) and a book of design patterns. One of the things I've realized is that in school, your programming classes usually don't foster good OO design. Makes sense .... as you're frantically building the last stages of your compiler or whatever you're working on ... you're not going to say "Hmm .. should this be an AbstractFactory or a Singleton ..."
To the original poster ... one of the things REALY computer scientists will tell you is that programming languages != programming logic. A language is like a tool. You don't learn carpentry by learning how to use a screwdriver. In your original post you wanted to know what is more efficient ... a switch or nested ifs ... well the important thing to know there is WHAT your compiler does when you it sees such a statement (in this case, most languages will generate VERY similar code ... but the lesson is still applicable). If you are interested in being a computer scientist, and not someone who read the latest O'Reilly book read SICP. Learn scheme and you'll have a great foundation for the rest of your life. If you're interested in OOP then grab a STRONG OO language (read java ... ideally smalltalk but lets be SOMEWHAT practical) and a book of design patterns. One of the things I've realized is that in school, your programming classes usually don't foster good OO design. Makes sense .... as you're frantically building the last stages of your compiler or whatever you're working on ... you're not going to say "Hmm .. should this be an AbstractFactory or a Singleton ..."
Well said ... remember that in the REAL world you spend WAY more time maintaining your code than writing it. And while the little tricks efficiencies that you can extrapolate will gain a minor reduction in runtime, and perhaps development, you'll always pay for it later. It is ALWAYS cheaper to do it right the first time.
from my experience....
I learned C then C++. I became very strong in C. When I went to learn java it was not as hard to pick up at all. I think the initial language you learn is the hardest. Now I know C, C++, java, pearl, lisp, fortran, php, assembly using registers and things like that, prolog, and a few others. However for me the one that was the most difficult to pick up in my opinion was C. I think it was simply because I had never seen any kind of programming before in my entire life. Learn C, learn it well giving yourself a good basis to build on.
edit: the book blackdogdeek recommended is the book I have and use as a reference, although I think there is a newer edition.
for java I use this java
I learned C then C++. I became very strong in C. When I went to learn java it was not as hard to pick up at all. I think the initial language you learn is the hardest. Now I know C, C++, java, pearl, lisp, fortran, php, assembly using registers and things like that, prolog, and a few others. However for me the one that was the most difficult to pick up in my opinion was C. I think it was simply because I had never seen any kind of programming before in my entire life. Learn C, learn it well giving yourself a good basis to build on.
edit: the book blackdogdeek recommended is the book I have and use as a reference, although I think there is a newer edition.
for java I use this java
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
Choose something people actually still use and get jobs in; ie not Fortran. I've never met a Fortran programmer. Sure they exist, but then so do cobol programmers, and you don't need to learn that.
I'd recommend VB or Java probably. VB is not 100% OO, but it is going to give you a great start and unlike Java it's very easy to use (yet more powerful than the average vb-hater will admit) and you can churn out applications quickly. VB is the most popular programming language at the moment.
I think you may find that C++ when compared to java is too difficult and slow, whereas Java is just much easier to use and if you could master that you'll have a real command over concepts.
I'd recommend VB or Java probably. VB is not 100% OO, but it is going to give you a great start and unlike Java it's very easy to use (yet more powerful than the average vb-hater will admit) and you can churn out applications quickly. VB is the most popular programming language at the moment.
I think you may find that C++ when compared to java is too difficult and slow, whereas Java is just much easier to use and if you could master that you'll have a real command over concepts.
SunnyD
Belgian Waffler
C (not C++) or Pascal are your best bets. Pascal is a great learning/teaching language, as that's what it was designed for. C is as raw as you're going to get without doing assembler.
then use lisp..
lisp is basically scheme on steroids.. its very good to teach beginner programmers the concepts of programming using scheme (recursion, loops, etc) because they will not be bogged down by the syntax.
DT4K
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2002
- 6,944
- 3
- 81
While I agree that VB6 is not a good choice if you want to learn good OO fundamentals, you are a little off base.
It is not just "clicking". If it was, why would my VB6 app need 15,000 lines of code? There is nothing inherently wrong with event based programming and vb6 was a great tool for building user-friendly business apps. It actually allows you to concentrate more on the logic of your app because it takes care of the mundane, time-consuming stuff like builiding forms and buttons and textboxes for you. But I agree that it is not a good tool for OO programming.
But your claim about Microsoft is way off base. Are you familiar with .Net at all?
VB.Net and C# are both complete OO languages that would be great choices for learning good programming fundamentals. The only reason I suggested Java over the .Net languages is because it's free and has been around longer.
First of all, writing "tight code" is overrated for most applications. Sure it's important when speed of execution is the goal. But then you are better off writing in C and skipping the whole OO concept. For many types of programming, clean logical structure and readability are more important than execution speed. This is because the rate-limiting step is accessing data across a network or from a database. In most cases, the extra 1/1000th of a second it takes to process some data is not going to be noticeable to the user. Especially compared to the second or two it takes to get the data from the db.
DT4K
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2002
- 6,944
- 3
- 81
Are you referring to VB.Net or VB6 ?
VB.Net is 100% OO and would be a great choice.
Although I'd recommend C# instead. I prefer C-style syntax and although VB.Net and C# have the same capabilities, the negative opinions about previous versions of VB will continue to haunt VB.Net programmers even though it is a completely different language.
VB6 is good for many things, but teaches you some really bad habits and is a poor way to try to implement any OO concepts.
EDIT: and by the way, anyone who lists HTML in a list of programming languages gets their "real programmer" pass revoked. VBScript and Javascript I would let slide. They have limited functionality, but they are still programming languages.
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