What kind of job should I be shooting for out of college?

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Feb 25, 2011
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Only the last qualification bullet really matters.

Then it should be the first item.

I do the pretty similar work as guys getting paid full-time to do my job. The only difference is that I have less responsibility because I have to work less hours.
Do not draw the distinction.

Make it buzzword compliant - don't overdo it, and don't lie - use the most common industry buzzwords for each skill you have. Remember, larger companies have HR drones who are looking for keywords the hiring department sent them. Sometimes they actually use an AI. "IT issues" = "customer/client facing, workstation/desktop level support" or "Network infrastructure maintenance."

Your scripting/coding experience - and you can leave off Assembly* - means you are also interested in a position leveraging Web 2.0 technologies, or in software/application/app/platform development.**

*Nobody takes more than a semester of that, and nobody uses it. If you put every language on your resume that you read about in class, it calls the list into question.
** Tailor your resume. If you're applying for a job in a company that sells "platforms," then that's what you design. If the company creates lifestyle apps for mobile platforms, that's what you want to design. Everything from supercomputers to hacked Pokemon runs on Python.

Do not use "tools of the trade" - there is no such thing. Especially not "Other tools." Just list Active Directory Administration, Exchange Administration, and Windows Server administration. Get a couple books and pirate a copy of Windows Server. Go home, set up your own AD environment and get a couple VMs talking to it. Try to sound confident during the technical interview.
 
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Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
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uhhh, I would leave Ross out ... doesn't really fit the resume at all.

Depends. I had a factory job and a software internship at a major company on my resume. The factory job was often brought up and I could demonstrate certain qualities with it that I couldn't with my software internship. I think having it on my resume during college was valuable.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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At 22 there's nothing that you can leave off - even if it just speaks to character.

Do not leave off work history until you can provide 10 years of uninterrupted work history. (I don't put on that month I spent delivering pizza in 2007.)
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
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Why does the Ross experience say "volunteered"? That's weird.

Go to your school's career center or whatever. They have people who can help you with the quality of your resume.

There are parentheses that list areas where the qualification has been demonstrated. So, I've demonstrated it at Ross, volunteering, and another job that I've had.

UW has what I always considered a weird system. You get into the school and then after your first year you declare your major. Some of the majors are very competitive (CS, CE, EE, etc) and some aren't at all (I think you can just declare yourself an English major).

I applied for CS, CE and EE and decided to do EE ultimately. Had a friend that couldn't get into any so went for physics instead apparently Trident was similar but went math.

I don't know if it is still true but apparently you could apply into CS at the same time as getting in to the school thus bypassing the first year of classes as a gate. If your nephew is at all interested in CS or engineering definitely look into the possibility of declaring your major when you apply it's been 10+ years since I went so no idea what rules are in play now.

It is way more competitive than what it was 10+ years ago. And you can apply for your major at the same time that you enter the school. In fact, I would have applied for my major if I had the pre-reqs done before I was accepted into the school. (Since I never applied to my intended major because I couldn't... again, special circumstances. I actually got a rejection letter from UW even though my GPA was 3.9+. I wrote a pretty scathing letter, it went straight to the dean of admissions, and I got in immediately.)

Of course.... UW is a competitive school, so I would imagine a lot of people going there are going because of the quality of a specific program.

The CS program is literally the only reason I moved to Seattle. 3.5 years of living here for a degree I didn't want (Not even an interest in it. I have as much interest in a math major as I would as an any other non-CS major.) and a beyond terrible life thanks to the city I am in. Once I move out of here, things are looking pretty fucking spiffy in comparison.

Then it should be the first item.

Do not draw the distinction.

Make it buzzword compliant - don't overdo it, and don't lie - use the most common industry buzzwords for each skill you have. Remember, larger companies have HR drones who are looking for keywords the hiring department sent them. Sometimes they actually use an AI. "IT issues" = "customer/client facing, workstation/desktop level support" or "Network infrastructure maintenance."

Your scripting/coding experience - and you can leave off Assembly* - means you are also interested in a position leveraging Web 2.0 technologies, or in software/application/app/platform development.**

*Nobody takes more than a semester of that, and nobody uses it. If you put every language on your resume that you read about in class, it calls the list into question.
** Tailor your resume. If you're applying for a job in a company that sells "platforms," then that's what you design. If the company creates lifestyle apps for mobile platforms, that's what you want to design. Everything from supercomputers to hacked Pokemon runs on Python.

Do not use "tools of the trade" - there is no such thing. Especially not "Other tools." Just list Active Directory Administration, Exchange Administration, and Windows Server administration. Get a couple books and pirate a copy of Windows Server. Go home, set up your own AD environment and get a couple VMs talking to it. Try to sound confident during the technical interview.

I'll keep that in mind and try to take some of that advice.

Depends. I had a factory job and a software internship at a major company on my resume. The factory job was often brought up and I could demonstrate certain qualities with it that I couldn't with my software internship. I think having it on my resume during college was valuable.

I've decided to take it out. I don't think it'll be a big deal. EDIT: Apparently dave thinks it is.... Problems.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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It's not that it's a big deal, it's just that you're not really in a position to leave stuff off, imo.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
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It's not that it's a big deal, it's just that you're not really in a position to leave stuff off, imo.

Yeah but it gains him nothing and doesn't fit the rest. If it was anything even remotely applicable to anything (factory job above could be, then yes) but that is just a min wage retail cashier job he only held for a few months. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't make or break you (or even effect you) but if it were me I would leave it off.

Also, work on your fonts/formatting. It doesn't look professional.
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
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That resume really needs to be worked on. Do they provide any assistance on how to write a proper resume. Colleges should offer a course on how to write resumes and how to sell yourself in today's tough market.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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That resume really needs to be worked on. Do they provide any assistance on how to write a proper resume. Colleges should offer a course on how to write resumes and how to sell yourself in today's tough market.

Unnecessary. The amount of information is small compared with the info in any semester long class. A couple hours with a career counselor working or resumes and a couple mock interviews is sufficient. You can usually get that for free at the career office of any college or university. The rest basically comes down to followup, feedback, and footwork, which is an independent thing, not something you can really grade on.

I've seen a few degree programs had a class of professional prep. They usually include resume writing and interview stuff that's specific to the industry. Sometimes it's expected you'll roll that into your internship.

My housemate went back a couple years after graduation and was able to get help from the career counseling office at the school we attended.

Otherwise, there's plenty of information like that on Google.

It's not a case of "OMG WE NEED A CLASS WHY DIDN'T YOU TEACH ME THIS?!?!" as often as it's a case of "OMG WHY DIDN'T I LEARN THIS STUFF BEFORE I NEEDED TO?!?!"
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,604
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Depends on what you want and how badly you want it.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
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www.anyf.ca
Help desk. People laugh, but it's the easiest chance at getting into a company, then from there you can move up.

Typically the way it works is a higher end job will open up, and it goes internal first, if nobody internal applies or none meet the criteria, then it goes outside. Typically someone internal will get it, such as a lower end worker like help desk. Then the help desk will need to hire, and that will probably go outside.

Of course it depends on your area, if there's coding type jobs then that opens more doors but everywhere I've seen here that is outsourced. Even IT as a whole is getting more and more sketchy as companies downsize and outsource lot/most of it.
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,561
951
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Resume is garbage -

Where is your GPA? it's your first job out of college, it is expected for it to be on your resume.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
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Frankly, I'd get rid of that first bullet point. No one cares about your volunteer IT, building computers for friends, stuff, because it's ALL useless in the real world, unless you want a job for near minimum wage assembling computers for a local computer shop.

If you want a full time software development position, you need experience. Contribute to an open-source project via the Internet, or start your own. If you don't have the capability to work with an open-source project, then try freelancing. At least you'll be able to build a portfolio.

It's also important to decide which facet of software development you want to go into. Backend or front end? Very few people are good at either, and of those, almost none are good at both. Do you want to do database stuff? DBAs get paid pretty well, but you'll need experience with one of the big three (Oracle, MS SQL, or DB2.)

Also, for any project you try to start, make sure you use some sort of version control (CVS, SVN, git, etc) as it's an extremely valuable and important skill to have. Having that experience looks great to a prospective employer.

Basically, without experience, you're unlikely to get a software development job. And independent IT contractors rarely need that.

Unfortunately for you, PHP isn't all that desired in corporate or commercial development. You might consider looking into java or some sort of .net variant. PHP is great for freelance work or working with various open-source web projects, though. And, unless you're completely useless at programming or are applying for a senior position, they're not really going to care what languages you have experience in because the language is usually irrelevant when talking about 3GLs or 4GLs...the concepts are more or less the same, you just need to learn syntax and libraries.

Basically, try to manufacture some experience for yourself, otherwise you're not going to qualify for even a junior position.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Frankly, I'd get rid of that first bullet point. No one cares about your volunteer IT, building computers for friends, stuff, because it's ALL useless in the real world, unless you want a job for near minimum wage assembling computers for a local computer shop.

If you want a full time software development position, you need experience. Contribute to an open-source project via the Internet, or start your own. If you don't have the capability to work with an open-source project, then try freelancing. At least you'll be able to build a portfolio.

It's also important to decide which facet of software development you want to go into. Backend or front end? Very few people are good at either, and of those, almost none are good at both. Do you want to do database stuff? DBAs get paid pretty well, but you'll need experience with one of the big three (Oracle, MS SQL, or DB2.)

Also, for any project you try to start, make sure you use some sort of version control (CVS, SVN, git, etc) as it's an extremely valuable and important skill to have. Having that experience looks great to a prospective employer.

Basically, without experience, you're unlikely to get a software development job. And independent IT contractors rarely need that.

Unfortunately for you, PHP isn't all that desired in corporate or commercial development. You might consider looking into java or some sort of .net variant. PHP is great for freelance work or working with various open-source web projects, though. And, unless you're completely useless at programming or are applying for a senior position, they're not really going to care what languages you have experience in because the language is usually irrelevant when talking about 3GLs or 4GLs...the concepts are more or less the same, you just need to learn syntax and libraries.

Basically, try to manufacture some experience for yourself, otherwise you're not going to qualify for even a junior position.

Well, that volunteering actually got me my first worker-bee/bitchwork IT/helpdesk job. My employer hired me because I had a lot of technical skill from volunteering. EDIT: I see now. I guess I didn't take off that last word. I should probably remove the IT stuff anyway since that's not what I want to do in the field. I'll probably remove all the bullet points and just list some skills that I have.

The resume makes a lot more sense when all the shit isn't blacked out, but that's how it is.

See, I don't feel like I don't have experience. You guys keep referencing this lack of experience and that I don't have an internship. Maybe it's just that I am poorly demonstrating my experience OR that I really don't know what qualifies as experience. (Something I'd like to have some specifics on)

From what I read in the programming forum, PHP is the second most in-demand language. Java is the first, but PHP is second. So, I don't know where you're getting that. Regardless, I've done plenty of Java in my CS classes. But, I don't use it almost ever because... well, I am not employed to do it.

More Edits: We use SVN at work. I've done it before that. I know how it works. I think that should kind of be implied, but apparently it isn't. I don't use GIT or mercurial or any of the others, but that's just because I don't have a reason to. (Again, math major and my job uses SVN)
 
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xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
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Get a much better resume template and learn how to sell yourself. Some of those bullet points are cringingly bad.
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
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Make sure you go to any on-campus job placement fairs. You have a much better chance of finding a job there than if you just go out cold-calling and leaving your resume with random companies. Companies who hire grads right out of school know what they're getting and they prefer it that way.

Why didn't you get a computer science degree if you want to work in software development?

You want a software job, take just about anything that seems interesting. Doesn't matter if it's in health care, banking, engineering, whatever. So long as it isn't developing in Cobol or Basic, it should give you a decent start on a career. That's all you should be looking for.

If you can possibly avoid anything in IT - network management, server support help desks - do so. It's hellish boring and unless you become a company CIO, it's mostly a dead-end career.

I would also recommend avoiding web development. There's a ton of work out there, but much of it just churning out the same crap over and over again. You might as well be a brick layer or an assembly line worker.
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
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You're a math major and you haven't mentioned any algorithms or graph theory? What about probabilistic modeling? And set theory? Hell, just saying that you know Bayes' Theorem will get you an interview with Amazon. These, and other math topics, are very relevant in computer science, programming, software engineering, etc. List some classes that are relevant to the field, for sure.

Dude, no. Nooooooooo.

I'm pretty sure I'd be fucking terrible at it anyway. I haven't done unit testing in a quite a while. (My current job is very loose on everything...)

QA does not write unit tests, at least in most firms. QA does more end-to-end scenario tests (integration), business validation, regression testing, and maybe load testing. Load testing is iffy, as a lot of larger firms have a separate performance testing team.

One cool thing about QA is that nobody likes to do it and there isn't a whole lot of talent in it. So what I'm trying to say is that if you only suck a little bit, you can still get a job in it, even with minimal to zero experience. Get your foot in the door. If you're talented, you can definitely weasel your way into a development job. Test scripts don't write themselves; develop your test suites with the same principles and quality you'd see in a classical software engineering job and you'll build your experience that way.

Also, if you have no experience, then a certification isn't a bad idea. Oracle/Java certifications are pretty expensive; something like $600 for all required exams. The Microsoft ones are a bit cheaper (I believe 3 exams for $150 each, where one is free for students). As far as .NET versus Java, as a professional Java developer, I can say that .NET is a hell of a lot more enjoyable to work with, but take anything you can get.

But all-in-all, your resume sucks. Rewrite the whole thing. Scrap it.
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,395
1,189
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This wouldn't be AT without some ball bustin'

Anyone remember this gem of a thread?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2129598

Imagine how sad of a person you have to be to want ATOT to decide every aspect of your life.

Give the kid a break. He's still in college.

I joined AT when I was a freshman (holy fvck, 13 yrs ago???). Bloody hell I made some stupid ass dumbass threads back then. Mods know this. :)

God I was so fvcking clueless and stupid back then. I still am, but at least I know how to function now.

I had no idea why I was going to college aside from the fact I didn't want to be a HS-diploma noob and not getting a bachelor doesn't happen in most Asian families.

I went from Psych to Graphic Design to Management (which is imo worthless major).

We were all clueless back then.
 
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drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
Well, that volunteering actually got me my first worker-bee/bitchwork IT/helpdesk job. My employer hired me because I had a lot of technical skill from volunteering. EDIT: I see now. I guess I didn't take off that last word. I should probably remove the IT stuff anyway since that's not what I want to do in the field. I'll probably remove all the bullet points and just list some skills that I have.

The resume makes a lot more sense when all the shit isn't blacked out, but that's how it is.

See, I don't feel like I don't have experience. You guys keep referencing this lack of experience and that I don't have an internship. Maybe it's just that I am poorly demonstrating my experience OR that I really don't know what qualifies as experience. (Something I'd like to have some specifics on)

From what I read in the programming forum, PHP is the second most in-demand language. Java is the first, but PHP is second. So, I don't know where you're getting that. Regardless, I've done plenty of Java in my CS classes. But, I don't use it almost ever because... well, I am not employed to do it.

More Edits: We use SVN at work. I've done it before that. I know how it works. I think that should kind of be implied, but apparently it isn't. I don't use GIT or mercurial or any of the others, but that's just because I don't have a reason to. (Again, math major and my job uses SVN)

The reason we don't see that you have experience is because your resume doesn't list anything that would qualify as experience in the software development field.

Your first job, the only one that matters in this case, you list one blurb that doesn't really say anything about what you do. For all a hiring manager could know, it means you built surveys for people on SurveyMonkey.com. If you are actually involved in the development of a platform like SureveyMonkey.com, then you need to list that and not be so vague.

Be specific about what features you've developed. Do they relate to analytics, functionality, or usability? Each of those things is a different aspect of software development and will be seen differently by the hiring manager. Mention that you maintain code and fix bugs if that's what you do. If you are instead responsible for designing new features, say that. If you implement new features, say that. Mention that it is a structured coding environment using SVN. Otherwise, you kind of come across as what 10 years ago would have been known as a "script kiddie."

You can have five or ten bullet points about a single job. Heck, I've only had one other real IT job, had it for 8 years. It WAS my resume. I think I had 15 bullet points listing various responsibilities I had.

When you're looking for a career job, it's important to make yourself look like an ambitious (but not too ambitious) person. On the other side, though, don't fluff. Expect the hiring manager to ask you about every single thing you list on your resume. For instance, if you say you have Windows AD experience, they're probably going to ask you something. So if your only experience is actually just resetting people's passwords, then I would leave it off. Instead, list that you have helpdesk, issue identification, and triage experience in an IT department, and that you have experience working with an escalation team to identify and resolve issues in an Active Directory environment. Same thing for a programming language, or really any other skill. Don't say you have experience with routing and switching if all you've ever done is set up your mother's FIOS connection.

But you can embellish. Instead of saying "Used PHP and MySQL to further develop a website used by physicians to administer surveys and to analyze data from the collected surveys," you can say something like:

* Worked on a project team responsible for the maintenance of the hospital's customer service survey application
* Identified and fixed bugs reported by users
* In response to user demands, implemented numerous new features
* Utilized SVN to track code changes and ease new feature integration
* Worked with the database administrator to develop data models for the application
* Provided various modules for statistical analysis of survey results
* Implemented numerous graphical user interface modifications to streamline the survey creation and collection process

If you mention MySQL, LAMP, Apache, IIS, etc, they may infer that you have experience with the implementation and maintenance of those platforms, seeing you as perhaps a DBA or a Systems Admin, instead of a programmer. You can mention PHP, but you might consider doing that in the title. For instance, instead of "Student Assistant", maybe "Student Assistant - PHP Developer." That way, you look more like an official programmer instead of the guy who tells users to reboot their computers when there's a problem. Also, if you were a member of a team, drill that information into your resume in as many places as possible. TEAM TEAM TEAM. There is no more important word when looking for a job.

Anyway, if you do have actual software development experience, you need to make sure that you write your resume to show that. Focus on it. Don't let anything else steal that thunder, because if that's the job you want then that's the experience that matters. Don't put extraneous information on your resume that might come back to bite you in the ass. Don't list volunteer work unless there's a record of your work and a contact that can be called to verify it.