What is your solution to the gun debate in America

[Puddle Jumper]

For an actual debate the gun grabbers need to offer something of value to offset any new restrictions. I suggest we repeal the ban on new machine guns and the NFA in exchange for closing the gun show loophole.

 

[IronWing]

There is already a prescribed process for addressing the issue. The 2nd Amendment articulates a right to bear arms. The Constitution has provisions for making additional amendments. Folks not liking the 2nd Amendment are free use one of those processes in attempt to modify/abolish the 2nd Amendment. Until such an attempt is successful, the 2nd Amendment stands as the law of the land.

 

[Ronstang]

The problem isn't the guns it is the declining state of society thanks to government intrusion.

There is no point in having a debate because the liberals don't actually want to solve any problems they simply want to take people's guns away or restrict them as much as they can. No matter how many of our rights they curtail or how much of their will they impose a liberal is never successful in finding a douche big enough to wash the sand out of their vaginas.

 

[IronWing]

The problem isn't the guns it is the declining state of society thanks to government intrusion.

There is no point in having a debate because the liberals don't actually want to solve any problems they simply want to take people's guns away or restrict them as much as they can. No matter how many of our rights they curtail or how much of their will they impose a liberal is never successful in finding a douche big enough to wash the sand out of their vaginas.

This except is has been the fascist fucks elected in the name of conservatism that have been shitting all over the Constitution. From search and seizure to torture the conservatives have been leading the march on liberties and rights.

 

[schneiderguy]

This except is has been the fascist fucks elected in the name of conservatism that have been shitting all over the Constitution. From search and seizure to torture the conservatives have been leading the march on liberties and rights.

Neither of the major parties cares about civil rights.

 

[IronWing]

Neither of the major parties cares about civil rights.

I agree. Both major parties are conservative in ideology. One's just bat shit crazy about it.

 

[Lemon law]

There is already a prescribed process for addressing the issue. The 2nd Amendment articulates a right to bear arms. The Constitution has provisions for making additional amendments. Folks not liking the 2nd Amendment are free use one of those processes in attempt to modify/abolish the 2nd Amendment. Until such an attempt is successful, the 2nd Amendment stands as the law of the land.

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As maybe Ironwing has put his finger on the problem. In terms of what the second amendment means? As we have a giant disconnect in the two clause of the second amendment meant to out founding fathers? Or for that matter how our US supreme court interpreted it to be during most of US history.

As on one hand the clause of the 2'nd amendment held that the right of the people to bear arms should not be infringed and at the same time there was a contradictory clause stating such a right should be off set by a well regulated governmental entity that limits the ability of anyone to own guns outside of governmental regulation. And for 97% plus of US history US the US SCOTUS held that the second amendment concerned the only the ability to have their own State militias that could oppose Federal army tyranny. As every US state still has the second amendment right to maintain their own national guard under the control of their State Governor.

As its only very recently that the US Scotus has flipped on that finding under idiots like Scalia, and Clarence the clown Thomas, and the gang of four who maintain other idiotic positions like money is free speech, black is white, and all that garbage George Orwell warned us about. As job one for the next supreme court is to repeal and reverse itself to restore rationality.

I will finish this post because my mean ole wife calls me to supper before I can finish this post. As I will be back?

 

[spidey07]

Real easy. No compromise. No new regulations. No more restrictions.

Eliminate kill friendly zones "gun free zones"

 

[exdeath]

We'd have to actually have a debate first, which conservatives are unwilling to do.

Can't have a debate when one side arrives at the table with an already firm idea of what they want. "Listening to suggestions" is just political grand standing, they've already set in stone what they want, it's the same thing they have wanted for 20+ years.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Real easy. No compromise. No new regulations. No more restrictions.

Eliminate kill friendly zones "gun free zones"

:thumbsdown: That will never fly.

 

[TerryMathews]

:thumbsdown: That will never fly.

Of course. Can't arm the proles.

 

[exdeath]

I'm fine with them closing the gunshow loophole that allows people to sell guns privately with no background check. Don't really care if they go with magazine restrictions either even though I don't think that will do anything at all to reduce crime.

I made a recent purchase at a gun show and was pretty shocked when he didn't pull out a form and I found out it was a private seller. I didn't realize that was possible, ever other gun I have ever purchased at a gun show required a background check.

I'd support requiring this for all public transactions. On the other hand, private face to face sells between people who know each other, especially between people who already have a sizable amount of similar guns themselves, should not be criminalized. The burden of proof should be on the government to prove such private transactions are done knowing the other person shouldn't have the weapons if private. Obviously there is no harm done for me to sell an extra AK47 to a friend who has been looking for one and who already has a dozen other legal rifles anyway.

Hawking guns in a public venue to random strangers with no knowledge of that person's background however I could get behind in a gesture of being willing to "compromise" for "common sense"

But in the end, it's just that, a gesture, because it would not have prevented the 12/14/12 shootings. The mother could have done everything right and legal and even kept them locked up. If they frequently went shooting together and she gave him the keys/combo to the safe, she might have been prosecuted for that knowing his mental state, but shes dead, so now what?

A magazine ban however will do nothing more than get me signed up for machine shop and injection molding classes.

I'd compromise with a waiting period and more thorough background check on anything considered an "evil assault weapon" in exchange for no weapon or magazine bans, no registration, and lifting of the 1986 machine gun ban and various import bans. NFA would be bearable if the 1986 ban was repealed. If I have to have a 5 day background check and I'm clean it shouldn't matter at that point. Why? If we just keep existing status quo but add waiting periods and background checks, that's only giving the left a tiny step, that's not a compromise. A compromise is an exchange, not keeping what I already have and giving you more.

 

[spidey07]

:thumbsdown: That will never fly.

Take a look at what some states are doing before you speak.

Free states are imitating the free kill zones.

 

[exdeath]

Here's a thought for those dreaming of taking away all/many/most guns:

affordable CNC machines
affordable and rapidly improving 3D printers
lathes
center drills
hydraulic presses
broaching mills


The genie is out of the bottle, you cannot undo technology and it's impact on a society. It's now common knowledge. Are we going to ban and heavily regulate chromoly steel?

A gun is a VERY simple device. I'm honestly surprised there isn't a criminal market for producing and trafficking in self made guns.

 

[spidey07]

Here's a thought for those dreaming of taking away all/many/most guns:

afordable CNC machines
affordable and rapidly improving 3D printers
lathes
center drills
hydraulic presses
broaching mills


The genie is out of the bottle, you cannot undo technology. Are we going to ban and heavily regulate chromoly steel?

A gun is a VERY simple device. I'm honestly surprised there isn't a criminal market for producing and trafficking in self made guns.

Lol. You think there isnt one?

 

[Brainonska511]

....crazy stuff...

I imagine you'd be worried if they toughen up the mental health stuff with owning guns, being that you're batshit insane and all.

 

[exdeath]

Lol. You think there isnt one?

Can't say I've ever heard of cops busting gang bangers and discover caches of fully automatic AKs that never had factory receiver stamps and serial numbers. Every drive by and drug bust I've ever heard of involved semi automatic or half ass rigged weapons originating from known manufacturing companies.

Making a gun is surprisingly easy, most of the heavy machining and hard work required would be for rifle barrels. Even hand gun barrels could be made pretty simple with a basic lathe and center drill and possibly a broaching machine. Might even get away with crude rifling with hand tools similar to taping dies. It's not like they had fancy expensive machines in the 1800s to produce rifled barrels.

Point is this shit isn't going away, ever. It's like trying to ban the wheel. It's common knowledge, everybody knows how to make one. Gun barrels might not be that simple, but the rest is pretty close.

Even a fool with no math/physics background could trial and error things like bolt carrier mass and buffer spring strength, gas port distances, pressures, volumes, etc, and things like that after blowing up a few test samples.

AKs are made of stamped sheet metal. You can make an AK receiver with a $79 12 ton Harbor Freight hydraulic press, an anvil, and a 2x4. If you don't have the ability to mill solid steel for hammers and fire control group parts, you can cut multiples out of sheet metal and laminate them together into a solid piece. That's how it was designed to be made. And the professionally built parts themselves have never been targeted for a ban; worse case all the bans in the world on the guns, you can still mail order barrels, uppers, etc all day long. You can order complete AR parts kits minus lower receiver and carve your own lower receiver out of a piece of delrin if you really wanted to. Not like you care about the ATF rules if you are preparing for a mass murder.

Powder, easy to make as well. Basic harmless chemicals used in every industry. Bullets? Melt down lead/copper pipes, weights, fishing lures, whatever in a crucible and cast your own. Brass? Easy, machine some dies for the shape and punch it out on the same hydraulic press with a torch and some brass tubing.

It will never go away. Technology's impact on society can never be undone. It's common knowledge now.

 

[max347]

2) You ban all firearms; You can not buy, sell or own any sort of fire arm.

We should ban crime while we are at it

oh wait

criminals are the ones that don't head the laws! Guess that won't solve any of the urban gun crime then...

 

[Matt1970]

Access to guns are obviously the problem. Many people and governments would disagree with you. Fact is, IMHO, it's time to take states' rights away from this. Our state lines are porous and anyone can travel from one state to another. It's not the 19th century anymore where going from one town to another or carrying goods across state line took days. That makes it easier for anyone to break state laws. So, either make it extremely easy for EVERYONE to get guns or make it very difficult. This has worked for many countries.

Access to guns are more resticted/regulated than ever before. Try again.

 

[sportage]

Ok. Let them have their way.
Guns for everyone. Mandatory guns for everyone.
But this too...
Freedom to use that gun.
Someone cuts you off in traffic? Legally blow them away.
Someone takes too long at the checkout? Bye bye BOOM!
Neighbors new dog crapped on your lawn? KA-BOOM neighbor.

Guns for everyone AND may the best aim win.
At least that might be one way to cut down on the wackos.
Owning a gun is one thing. Knowing how to use it, another.

 

[Lemon law]

Lol. You think there isnt one?

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No Spidey07, there isn't a domestic or foreign makers of guns of guns when established foreign and domestic makers of guns of guns have the inside track of economy of scale.

I am a CNC machinist myself, and I have some understanding of how difficult making an effective automatic weapon is. Even if all the technologies are well established, combining all the technologies is and remains the almost the exclusive providence already established gun makers.

As I could also argue that any competent CNC machinist could create a exact clone of any modern domestic or foreign car. But at what cost and how long would it take me or anyone else to duplicate all those technologies.

As according to you spidey07, the domestic auto market should be flooded by every domestic CNC machinists who can undercut the costs of foreign and domestic automakers.

Tell us again Spidey07, how many self made cars are available in the USA?

As I will call shens on you spidey07 if you can't site a single example of a single US auto that too is well within the capacity of a competent CNC machinist.

Just come up with just one single US auto to prove your contention and I might believe you. Failing that, and I will call you what you are, namely an idiot with a failed bullshit hypothesis that does not exist in the USA.

 

[schneiderguy]

The effort and materials involved in making a car is nothing like the effort and materials involved in making a firearm.

Do I really need to find the thread where the guy made an AKM from a shovel?

 

[xj0hnx]

We'd have to actually have a debate first, which conservatives are unwilling to do.

Bullshit, the anti-gun nut jobs are the problem, THEY are the ones not willing to debate, or compromise. If you want some more restrictions, than you have to give up some existing ones. You just getting more restrictions isn't debate or compromise.

I'd compromise with a waiting period and more thorough background check on anything considered an "evil assault weapon" in exchange for no weapon or magazine bans, no registration, and lifting of the 1986 machine gun ban and various import bans. NFA would be bearable if the 1986 ban was repealed. If I have to have a 5 day background check and I'm clean it shouldn't matter at that point. Why? If we just keep existing status quo but add waiting periods and background checks, that's only giving the left a tiny step, that's not a compromise. A compromise is an exchange, not keeping what I already have and giving you more.

Lifting the 1986 import/manufacture ban would be a good start, but if they are going to do that, there is no reason to keep the NFA around other than to continue to milk money out of gun buyers. I do agree that would be a compromise I could live with.

 

[jackstar7]

criminals are the ones that don't head the laws! Guess that won't solve any of the urban gun crime then...

Though it would free police to basically shoot anyone with a gun who threatened them, since they would be a criminal.

 

[spidey07]

Bullshit, the anti-gun nut jobs are the problem, THEY are the ones not willing to debate, or compromise. If you want some more restrictions, than you have to give up some existing ones. You just getting more restrictions isn't debate or compromise.



Lifting the 1986 import/manufacture ban would be a good start, but if they are going to do that, there is no reason to keep the NFA around other than to continue to milk money out of gun buyers. I do agree that would be a compromise I could live with.

No compromise. Negotiation 101. There will be no compromise nor negotiation.

My offer is final. Shall not be infringed.