what is your opinion of unions?

[BlahBlahYouToo]

i admittedly do not know much about unions. the only thing i know is from the UAW and MTA union strikes in recent events.
my take is that they were necessary in earlier times because large corporations would exploit workers, but with stricter labor laws, they are now obsolete.

nowadays, they exist to screw corporations for every penny they can get. union members are underworked, overpaid, which leads to higher costs to companies, which will be passed onto the price of their products, and/or screwing the parent company over.

GM plant workers get paid $28/hr whether they work or not. GM cannot shed themselves of them, or lower their wages, because of contracts and are forced to take it in the pooper, putting themselves in horrible financial shape.


MTA subway platform sweepers get $60k/yr... a mindless job that does not require a HS diploma, getting paid more than the average college graduate.
meanwhile, they continue to raise fares while providing sub-par service.

all imo of course. correct me where necessary

 

[nonameo]

Some good, some bad. I don't think it's black and white like some people try and make it out to be.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: nonameo
Some good, some bad. I don't think it's black and white like some people try and make it out to be.

this,

Teachers union, bad. Other unions can be good. It just really depends on how they are handled.

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: nonameo
Some good, some bad. I don't think it's black and white like some people try and make it out to be.

 

[Feldenak]

what is your take on unions?

Once useful organizations that are no longer needed.

 

[Linflas]

I have no problem with them as long as I am not forced to join one but since the only places left where they seem to thrive are states that allow closed shop laws I have little use for them. I find it fascinating that one of the Union's big issues today is doing away with the secret ballot so that they will be able to more easily intimidate people into voting to unionize. If is it so beneficial they should not be afraid to allow people the same privacy in their vote that they get when voting in political elections.

 

[blackdogdeek]

in theory, good.

in practice, not so much.

 

[thespeakerbox]

Unions have caused their own doom. They took too much, yet still complain for more. They should rename unions to daycares.

 

[andy04]

unions rock, as this country (USA) continues to degrade... we need union more than ever b4. IT needs union the most. Otherwise one day the CEOs will send evey last job overseas and we will just be left to flip burgers... but who do we sell it to??? good question...

 

[imported_Lothar]

Never been in one, never seen a need for it.

 

[rh71]

rather not

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: Lothar
Never been in one, never seen a need for it.

they are more for public service workers, teachers, blue collar workers, etc.

most of us here will not be involved with one because the demographic of this board, from what i've seen, is more geared towards tech and finance - more white collar, higher education and higher paid positions.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: andy04
unions rock, as this country (USA) continues to degrade... we need union more than ever b4. IT needs union the most. Otherwise one day the CEOs will send evey last job overseas and we will just be left to flip burgers... but who do we sell it to??? good question...

Sorry but not all IT jobs can be outsourced to overseas. And IT doesn't need it. People need to learn to adapt.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: andy04
unions rock, as this country (USA) continues to degrade... we need union more than ever b4. IT needs union the most. Otherwise one day the CEOs will send evey last job overseas and we will just be left to flip burgers... but who do we sell it to??? good question...

Yeah, because unions can stop off-shoring.

Idiot.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: andy04
unions rock, as this country (USA) continues to degrade... we need union more than ever b4. IT needs union the most. Otherwise one day the CEOs will send evey last job overseas and we will just be left to flip burgers... but who do we sell it to??? good question...

this.





we need unions to guarantee fair wages. dont think for a minute that your boss isnt comtemplating replacing you with 2 mexicans who will each work for < minimum wage and work double your shift for it.

Prices are high, not because GM workers make $28 /hr... thats a measly pennies. A mere $55K per year. The CEO makes 20x what these workers make in a year, and dont do a dam thing to assemble one single car.
Want to solve the worlds problems? Gurarantee every worker a salary of at least 40K per year regardless of title, so he can feed his family. Then make a universal salary cap of $250K, regardless of title.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: andy04
unions rock, as this country (USA) continues to degrade... we need union more than ever b4. IT needs union the most. Otherwise one day the CEOs will send evey last job overseas and we will just be left to flip burgers... but who do we sell it to??? good question...

this.





we need unions to guarantee fair wages. dont think for a minute that your boss isnt comtemplating replacing you with 2 mexicans who will each work for < minimum wage and work double your shift for it.

Prices are high, not because GM workers make $28 /hr... thats a measly pennies. A mere $55K per year. The CEO makes 20x what these workers make in a year, and dont do a dam thing to assemble one single car.
Want to solve the worlds problems? Gurarantee every worker a salary of at least 40K per year regardless of title, so he can feed his family. Then make a universal salary cap of $250K, regardless of title.

If you don't like capitalism, move to another country.

You can hire most anyone to be a manually laborer but not everyone can be a CEO.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: andy04
unions rock, as this country (USA) continues to degrade... we need union more than ever b4. IT needs union the most. Otherwise one day the CEOs will send evey last job overseas and we will just be left to flip burgers... but who do we sell it to??? good question...

this.





we need unions to guarantee fair wages. dont think for a minute that your boss isnt comtemplating replacing you with 2 mexicans who will each work for < minimum wage and work double your shift for it.

Prices are high, not because GM workers make $28 /hr... thats a measly pennies. A mere $55K per year. The CEO makes 20x what these workers make in a year, and dont do a dam thing to assemble one single car.
Want to solve the worlds problems? Gurarantee every worker a salary of at least 40K per year regardless of title, so he can feed his family. Then make a universal salary cap of $250K, regardless of title.

This is silly considering what you are afaid of still happens even with a Union. Morseso in some scenario's because the cost the unions inflict on the company hasten the move.

The best place you may notice something like this is in grocery stores. I remember as a kid lots of people working the registers with people bagging. Now there is no bagging and the cash registers are being replaced by a computer.

Your price controls fail in every scenario and would in this one as well. If guranteeing a wage was all that was required. Why hasnt the govt mandated everybody recieve 1 million dollars a year? We would all be millionaires and rich right?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Evil, lazy, corrupt, greedy. Before labor laws they were useful. Now their sole goal is to protect incompetent employees while simultaneously screwing the people that sign their checks.

 

[RFtesla]

we need unions to guarantee fair wages. dont think for a minute that your boss isnt comtemplating replacing you with 2 mexicans who will each work for < minimum wage and work double your shift for it.

Prices are high, not because GM workers make $28 /hr... thats a measly pennies. A mere $55K per year. The CEO makes 20x what these workers make in a year, and dont do a dam thing to assemble one single car.
Want to solve the worlds problems? Gurarantee every worker a salary of at least 40K per year regardless of title, so he can feed his family. Then make a universal salary cap of $250K, regardless of title.

And 55k is a fine livable wage, don't pop out 10 kids and you'll be fine. The CEO makes 20 times what the commoner does for a reason. Granted a lot of CEOs should be gone due to poor performance but for some reason the board doesn't get rid of them.

Oh and socialism ftl, just because you don't want to work doesn't mean I should be punished.

 

[TehMac]

The problem I have is this: Unions have a stranglehold on the government, everyone bitches about how corporations are bad and boohoo this, and boohoo that, but it really is the Unions who are the real thorn in the side of your average dude trying to scrape a living by working.

I worked in several blue collar job offerings in California, and the law said you had to join a union. HAD TO; where the fuck is the freedom in that? I don't want to join the Union. It sure as fucking hell isn't free.

Whats more, Unions are a socialist institution, so if you're a mediocre type person, you'll love unions, but if you have any ambition, you'd realize unions are as much thuggery as the worst corporate shenanigans. Here's why: I was working in Vons as the lowest job, a courtesy clerk, and within two months, I was offered a pay raise of about 10 cents, which is pretty damned good because it was menial labor. BUT, the damned unions of course said no, that wouldn't be fair, I had only been working there two months.

It seems then, this sort of Unionization is meant to encourage people to just...work...no extra effort, nothing more put in, slugging around. And then they take $80 initiation fee, and 30% of what you earn a month. 30 fucking percent. That's blind robbery, and what's worse, the government makes you join. If you don't join, you're fired, and even though the Union did take my money without my consent (not going to pursue it because California is a load of bull shit anyway), I never joined anyway, because I'm not going to blindly and naively consent to this bull shit.

Anyone remember those Safeway strikes in CA a while back? Know what that was all about? Unions being a bunch of sop head cry baby FUCKS as usual. I talked to several employees about it, and of course, they just wanted to work, screw Union politics. But no, the Union was upset, because Safeway wanted to pursue their superior healthcare plan that would be available after a year of work, the Union wanted their inferior healthcare plan, available after working half a year.

Different mentalities, and the Unions are just for people who feel they can't get anywhere at all.

If you like Unions, try working at a Unionized Institution that takes 30 percent of your pay, and see if you'll be in love with them after that. Furthermore, try getting anything done in a Union instituion, see where you end up.

Unions are nothing but government hosted thuggery, fat leeches, and while corporations are seen by some tools as hawks and birds of prey, Unions are fat sucking leeches, their cilia ever wavering and flowing, trying to get more blood out of you.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: andy04
unions rock, as this country (USA) continues to degrade... we need union more than ever b4. IT needs union the most. Otherwise one day the CEOs will send evey last job overseas and we will just be left to flip burgers... but who do we sell it to??? good question...

You have no idea how offshoring works, do you?

 

[ICRS]

Bad, I hate the fact that my union doesn't have free and fair elections for representatives and posittions such as president.

 

[K1052]

My opinion of unions has been rather low since my family had their lives threatened and acts of arson perpetrated against us by one.

I wouldn't say they're all bad but the good ones do seem to be quite the rarity. Overall I'd have to agree with this:

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Once useful organizations that are no longer needed.

 

[HaiBiss]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: nonameo
Some good, some bad. I don't think it's black and white like some people try and make it out to be.

this,

Teachers union, bad. Other unions can be good. It just really depends on how they are handled.

Why yes lets open up all the teachers to the whims of parents and admins because their job doesn't suck already, with low wages and lets face it they have to be the ones that have to maintain order in their classrooms with kids who parents don't care and won't do anything about misbehaving. I am sorry but I a vast majority of kids today are little asses and it will only continue to get worse. I am not pro Union but I am for protecting the good teachers they need all the help the can get.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: HaiBiss

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: nonameo
Some good, some bad. I don't think it's black and white like some people try and make it out to be.

this,

Teachers union, bad. Other unions can be good. It just really depends on how they are handled.

Why yes lets open up all the teachers to the whims of parents and admins because their job donesn't suck already, with low wages and lets face it they have to be the ones that have to maintain order in their classrooms with kids who parents don't care and won't do anything about misbehaving. I am sorry but I a vast majority of kids today are little asses and it will only continue to get worse. I am not pro Union but I am for protecting the good teachers they need all the help the can get.

Teacher I'm Guessing? All I have seen from teachers unions is the fact that they fight for bad teachers to stay in while offering little to no benefit to parents or teachers. Not only that, but they FORCE teachers to be members, its like an organized gang hitting up small shops for protection.

I always find it funny that teachers complain about pay so much. They work, generally, less then 40 hrs weeks, they get a 3+ month vacation along with several vacations during the school year. and they get an average salary of $47,000 a year. If they want more money they can get a summer job flipping burgers, but honestly considering all the benifits that isn't a bad wage at all.