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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Considering you can call up the electric/gas company with an address and they'll give you a 12 month average (not specifically last month, but close enough), quite a lot.
I see a single meter, with a single display. It is hooked up as a single point. There isn't a separate circuit going to A/C. I've not seen A/C units, nor resistive element assemblies, with Watt-hour meters integrated, either.

Likewise, how many stoves, or furnaces, have meters integrated?
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
I hope the op never gets a Nielsen survey. Big industry out to get him!
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I hope the op never gets a Nielsen survey. Big industry out to get him!

Nah, he'd just throw it away, of course if you do that with the census you'd be breaking the law and subject to prosecution.

I bet you can see the difference.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Not a poll, it a census form that is umpteen pages long and it's estimated to take 40 minutes to fill out.

Edit: It's The American Community Survey. It's from the PolitCensus Bureau.


Mine went right into the trash.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
"How many hispanics live in your household and what variety of hispanic are they?"

Do they give multiple choice for the varieties?

a) legal immigrant
b) illegal immigrant
c) illegal immigrant who drives unregistered and uninsured vehicle with no drivers license

I could go on and on. Not trolling, though perhaps a bad attempt at humor. Seriously, what variety of white am I?
I used a vague description of what they were looking for because I didn't want to go into all the details but I will answer your question. Bold is mine.

Is Person 1 of Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin? (The choices are below)

No, not of Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin
Yes, Mexican, Mexican Am, Chicano
Yes, Puerto Rican
Yes, Cuban
Yes, another Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origan - Print origin, (text box is provided) Argentinean, Columbian, Dominican, Nicaraguan, Salvadoran, Spaniard, and so on.

There is similar language for Asian and Pacific Islander.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
http://www.census.gov/history/www/genealogy/decennial_census_records/the_72_year_rule_1.html


Notice the law that seals Census records for 72 years on individuals---but not aggregate statistical data derived from the census, which is available almost as fast as it's compiled. Also note the date of this law---1978, a little later than both the paranoid WWII period and the Communist menace fear mongering period.
Hey, look what I stumbled across this morning...

U.S. Census Bureau Fails to Protect Your Data


In the latest of many scandals to rock the U.S. Census Bureau, a federal audit reveals that the agency’s vast computer system is not secure, risking droves of crucial data collected from the American public.

This is incredibly alarming considering the bureau, which is part of the U.S. Department of Commerce, gathers personal information about every individual who lives in the United States. The information, especially the decennial count of people living in the country, is used by the government to determine representation in Congress and federal funding for states.

Incredibly, the agency is not protecting the confidentiality of its data, according to the findings of the Government Accountability Office (GAO), the investigative arm of Congress. A report issued this week reveals that the Census Bureau is not effectively implementing information security controls to protect the computer system that holds all the data.

Controls designed to regulate who or what can access the Census Bureau’s systems are a major problem, the probe found, because the agency doesn’t bother identifying or authenticating users or restricting access to only those necessary to perform official duties. It also fails to implement appropriate physical security controls and doesn’t properly encrypt data in transmission and at rest.

“Until the bureau implements a complete and comprehensive security program, it will have limited assurance that its information and systems are being adequately protected against unauthorized access, use, disclosure, modification, disruption, or loss,” the report states. It goes on to point out the obvious: “A data breach could result in the public’s loss of confidence in the bureau and could affect its ability to collect census data.”

Americans may have lost confidence in the Census Bureau long ago considering its many transgressions. As far back as 2008, congressional investigators determined that the bureau had severe information technology shortcomings that made the 2010 census a high-risk operation.

More than five years later nothing has changed and in fact, the Department of Commerce “expressed broad agreement” with the audit’s findings.

I'm going to make sure I send it in because I don't think I can be sure they've had a policy change in the regards to the following.

It seems the agency does little in the way of security. As the 2010 count approached, it actually hired violent criminals to enter the homes of unsuspecting residents to gather data. The astounding information was made public in a federal audit that revealed the bureau failed to adequately conduct mandatory background checks for tens of thousands of temporary census workers, clearing hundreds of violent criminals in the process.

The article goes on talking of the Census Bureau's association with ACORN. Good stuff.
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
Look it up yourself, asshole.
Please, leave or stop your regular intellectual and rude defiling of the forum.

~~~~~~~~

..On topic, a government (particularly the bureaucratic agencies that manage and implement policy) require accurate information and perspective to govern effectively.



A Canadian perspective for the mandate of Statistics Canada:
To provide statistical information and analysis about Canada&#8217;s economic and social structure to:
  • develop and evaluate public policies and programs
  • improve public and private decision-making for the benefit of all Canadians.
Unfortunately some idealogues (including Canada's current defiling Harper Government 3) expect a magical ether to be present and enable effective governing upon a whim.

For what I've read here, an effective government is not a social concern; to be radically trumped by self-righteous and all-knowing (deluded, of course) individualsm.

A one extreme or the other presentation is present in this thread rather than a pragmatic balance.
 
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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Please, leave or stop your regular intellectual and rude defiling of the forum.
It is nice that you asked politely, but he is entitled to express his opinion in that manner. There is another forum here in which civility is required and the discussions are sanitized and genteel in nature. You should apply for admission and you more than likely will be much happier there.

As far as the rest of your post, I reside in the U.S. and I see no relevance whatsoever for how Canada does things. I don't consider your country to be a model for anything that I can think of but thanks for sharing.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
It is nice that you asked politely, but he is entitled to express his opinion in that manner. There is another forum here in which civility is required and the discussions are sanitized and genteel in nature.
Hmmm, why did you choose to post this thread here rather than there? I figure in the hopes of achieving an insular and ranting echo chamber with like-minded, but rude, folks such as monovillage. Such brownshirts to drive the alternative folk (Canadians?) away, eh?

The P&N continues to be usurped by pollutants. Your tolerance of the above presents a concerning contrast between here and there, hopefully indicating that sewage is to be eliminated, leaving the adult and civil forum to supplant the other.

As far as the rest of your post, I reside in the U.S. and I see no relevance whatsoever for how Canada does things. I don't consider your country to be a model for anything that I can think of but thanks for sharing.
Ignorance is bliss, for some. Arrogant exceptionalism without an inclination for knowledge is dangerous.

boomerang, if you keep this up, you may discourage myself and other foreigners from posting. This forum's mission is not to discount a world beyond that of the USA nor is it only for participating membership by those engrossed only with the USA. I contributed topical information for those with more inquisitive minds than your own.

That said, you were far too prejudicially quick to dismiss my post and its very relevant contribution (Canada's current defiling Harper Government 3 -- here's a little video to emphasize that theme... :D):

Long-form census cancellation taking toll on StatsCan data


Questions raised over how data can be used reliably

..
The problem for users is that they don't know which data is good and which is not, Norris said.

"Is this data a better picture of true linguistic use, or is the old picture better?" he asked. "Right now, we don't know."

It's a worrisome sign of things to come, he added.

"This is exactly the kind of problem we're going to have next year with the national household survey."

That survey is meant to replace the long-form census, asking Canadians about immigration, citizenship, birthplace, ethnicity and work. But the survey is voluntary, unlike the short and long-form censuses.

So Statistics Canada and data analysts alike have warned that the information it produces will not be completely comparable to information collected in censuses in the past.

Lower response rates threaten census data in some places -- CBC - Sept 25 2012

68.6% completed national household survey overall, but some communities fall below optimal 50% level

The national household survey is voluntary, unlike the previous long-form questionnaire, which was mandatory. The questions on both forms are the same, but analysts and even Statistics Canada have voiced concern about whether vulnerable groups would be properly represented in the results, since some groups tend not to respond to voluntary surveys.
Rather than a pragmatic balance for knowledge and perspective for policy decisions, it comes down to partisan governance by ideology.

This disabling of Statistics Canada mandate stemmed from the current federal government's ideological drive to apply wedge issues in order to maximise its party's partisan political control and to discount the applied research and analytics from government scientists and bureaucrats:

Harper's census push months in the making - The Globe & Mail, Jul. 26 2010

Prime Minister Stephen Harper decided at the end of December to scrap the mandatory long-form census despite being told by Statistics Canada officials that important data would likely be lost or impaired as a result.

He considered going further by making the whole census voluntary, people familiar with what transpired have revealed. On the long census form, he overrode objections from his own officials in the Privy Council Office and senior finance department staff, although Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said on the weekend that he thinks census data can be collected voluntarily without being compromised.
..
Mr. Harper's decision has baffled political analysts familiar with his thinking - people including political scientist Tom Flanagan, who played a key role in Mr. Harper becoming prime minister - but not University of Calgary economist Frank Atkins, his graduate thesis supervisor.

While careful to stress he is not putting words in the Prime Minister's mouth, Prof. Atkins suggested Mr. Harper acted from a deep philosophical conviction - a libertarian view of the mandatory long-form census, which has been in use since 1971, as a Big Brother manifestation of the intrusive state.

Mr. Harper has indicated previously that he has philosophical problems with Statscan.

At a cabinet meeting at least 18 months ago, then-foreign affairs minister Maxime Bernier - who has assumed a lead role in defending the government's long-form decision - proposed major cuts to Statscan based on ideological libertarianism. The Prime Minister was reported to be supportive (while then-clerk of the Privy Council Kevin Lynch was not).

Said Prof. Atkins: "I would agree with this census decision from a libertarian point of view. People like me look on this as the thin edge of the wedge, sort of 'Big Brother's around the corner,' if you're forcing people to reveal knowledge even though the knowledge isn't going to be attached to them."

That accords with the Prime Minister's Office statement: "The government made this decision because we do not believe Canadians should be forced, under threat of fines, jail, or both, to disclose extensive private and personal information."

In fact, there are two faces to the controversy: the compulsory collection of information and the purposes for which the data may be used.

Academics and others have categorized what pollster Allan Gregg last week called "a classic culture war cleavage" as a clash between the role of knowledge, evidence and reason and the role of intuition, "common sense" and "decency." In this view, the elimination of the mandatory long form is seen by Mr. Harper's philosophical critics as an expression of the current small-c conservative ideological tendency to value belief and conviction over "data" and rationality.

boomerang, permit me to quote you again:

As far as the rest of your post, I reside in the U.S. and I see no relevance whatsoever for how Canada does things.
Really now, eh?
 
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Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
How many hispanics live in your household and what variety of hispanic are they?

One of the weirdest things I've noticed about American stats, is that when it comes to race, White is counted as origins in Europe, North Africa and the Middle East.
So a black guy from Libya is white in America, and really there are no Arabs
 
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monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Hmmm, why did you choose to post this thread here rather than there? I figure in the hopes of achieving an insular and ranting echo chamber with like-minded, but rude, folks such as monovillage. Such brownshirts to drive the alternative folk (Canadians?) away, eh?

The P&N continues to be usurped by pollutants. Your tolerance of the above presents a concerning contrast between here and there, hopefully indicating that sewage is to be eliminated, leaving the adult and civil forum to supplant the other.

boomerang, permit me to quote you again:

Really now, eh?

I'm not trying to drive you away. I think you're just another sanctimonious self-righteous piece of shit that likes to post pseudo-intellectual tripe in the forum. You insult me and then get butthurt when you get insults in return. Whoopee-do, grow a set of balls.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
I'm not trying to drive you away. I think you're just another sanctimonious self-righteous piece of shit that likes to post pseudo-intellectual tripe in the forum. You insult me and then get butthurt when you get insults in return. Whoopee-do, grow a set of balls.
Quoted for posterity and the sadly recorded practice of this denigrated forum.

Back on topic, no care to recognise and reflect upon census changes that have already been legislated in Canada?
 
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monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Quoted for posterity and the sadly recorded practice of this denigrated forum.

Back on topic, no care to recognise and reflect upon census changes that have already been legislated in Canada?

You refer to me as a "brownshirt" a Nazi and now i'm recorded for posterity?
quoted from Whiskey16:Hmmm, why did you choose to post this thread here rather than there? I figure in the hopes of achieving an insular and ranting echo chamber with like-minded, but rude, folks such as monovillage. Such brownshirts to drive the alternative folk (Canadians?) away, eh?
"Hmmm, why did you choose to post this thread here rather than there? I figure in the hopes of achieving an insular and ranting echo chamber with like-minded, but rude, folks such as monovillage. Such brownshirts to drive the alternative folk (Canadians?) away, eh?"

Like I said, if you attack people don't whine and blubber that you get a nasty response.