What is worse then GM going bankrupt?

[ProfJohn]

So GM has gone under, and us taxpayers are stepping in to save it.

If our government was smart they would get out of the way and allow GM to emerge as a smaller and better run car company that can compete with the Toyotas of the world.

Instead there will be a ton of pressure put on Obama and others to turn GM into a 'green' business. Forget about the reasons for GM's existence, to make cars, and instead turn it into some social experiment to improve the world.

Here is an example of what is coming via Michael Moore
link
selected quotes:
" If we allow the shutting down and tearing down of our auto plants, we will sorely wish we still had them when we realize that those factories could have built the alternative energy systems we now desperately need. And when we realize that the best way to transport ourselves is on light rail and bullet trains and cleaner buses, "

"We are now in a different kind of war -- a war that we have conducted against the ecosystem and has been conducted by our very own corporate leaders. This current war has two fronts. One is headquartered in Detroit. The products built in the factories of GM, Ford and Chrysler are some of the greatest weapons of mass destruction responsible for global warming and the melting of our polar icecaps. The things we call "cars" may have been fun to drive, but they are like a million daggers into the heart of Mother Nature. To continue to build them would only lead to the ruin of our species and much of the planet."


The Michael Moore wish list:

3. Announce that we will have bullet trains criss-crossing this country in the next five years. Japan is celebrating the 45th anniversary of its first bullet train this year. Now they have dozens of them. Average speed: 165 mph. Average time a train is late: under 30 seconds. They have had these high speed trains for nearly five decades -- and we don't even have one! The fact that the technology already exists for us to go from New York to L.A. in 17 hours by train, and that we haven't used it, is criminal. Let's hire the unemployed to build the new high speed lines all over the country. Chicago to Detroit in less than two hours. Miami to DC in under 7 hours. Denver to Dallas in five and a half. This can be done and done now.

4. Initiate a program to put light rail mass transit lines in all our large and medium-sized cities. Build those trains in the GM factories. And hire local people everywhere to install and run this system.

5. For people in rural areas not served by the train lines, have the GM plants produce energy efficient clean buses.

6. For the time being, have some factories build hybrid or all-electric cars (and batteries). It will take a few years for people to get used to the new ways to transport ourselves, so if we're going to have automobiles, let's have kinder, gentler ones. We can be building these next month (do not believe anyone who tells you it will take years to retool the factories -- that simply isn't true).

7. Transform some of the empty GM factories to facilities that build windmills, solar panels and other means of alternate forms of energy. We need tens of millions of solar panels right now. And there is an eager and skilled workforce who can build them.

8. Provide tax incentives for those who travel by hybrid car or bus or train. Also, credits for those who convert their home to alternative energy.

9. To help pay for this, impose a two-dollar tax on every gallon of gasoline. This will get people to switch to more energy saving cars or to use the new rail lines and rail cars the former autoworkers have built for them

10. Ruin the US economy!!! And throw billions of dollars down the drain while doing it!!!!

NY to LA is only 17 hours!!! woohooo!!!

Everyone should ride busses?? Next time Moore shows up at a movie screening someone tell if he rode the bus to the theater.
I live 5 miles from work, it is a 10 minute drive with traffic. Taking the bus would take me over an hour!! Why the hell am I going to give up my car so I can spend 2 hours a day in a bus??

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Less exclamation points, less question marks, more spelling "bus" correctly.

Joking aside, who cares what Michael Moore has to say? Seriously?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is worse then GM going bankrupt?

You posting a stupid thread about Micheal Moore as if what he thinks really matters:roll:

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Less exclamation points, less question marks, more spelling "bus" correctly.

Joking aside, who cares what Michael Moore has to say? Seriously?

Michael Moore is equivlent to Rush for most people on either side of the fence.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Less exclamation points, less question marks, more spelling "bus" correctly.

Joking aside, who cares what Michael Moore has to say? Seriously?

Michael Moore is equivlent to Rush for most people on either side of the fence.

Except people actually listen to Rush and he has an audience.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Less exclamation points, less question marks, more spelling "bus" correctly.

Joking aside, who cares what Michael Moore has to say? Seriously?

Michael Moore is equivlent to Rush for most people on either side of the fence.

not even close.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Less exclamation points, less question marks, more spelling "bus" correctly.

Joking aside, who cares what Michael Moore has to say? Seriously?

Michael Moore is equivlent to Rush for most people on either side of the fence.

Yeah....no

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Less exclamation points, less question marks, more spelling "bus" correctly.

Joking aside, who cares what Michael Moore has to say? Seriously?

Michael Moore is equivlent to Rush for most people on either side of the fence.

Equivalent in weight and sweat glands maybe.

 

[Cuda1447]

Michael Moore is a fucking idiot. I have no problems with building bullet trains and in fact I think some of those things sound nice, but we don't need to build them at the expense of our car industry. They can exist mutually. Maybe, if bullet trains are so awesome, they can replace some of the air industry. That's the benefit I can see in them.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Less exclamation points, less question marks, more spelling "bus" correctly.

Joking aside, who cares what Michael Moore has to say? Seriously?

Michael Moore is equivlent to Rush for most people on either side of the fence.

not even close.

Rush is a blowhard that wants attetnion and stir up trouble.

Moore is the same - he using the Hollywood tools instead of the radio.

Both are pandering to their idiot base and it causing panic on the otherside - that is their aim.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Less exclamation points, less question marks, more spelling "bus" correctly.

Joking aside, who cares what Michael Moore has to say? Seriously?

Michael Moore is equivlent to Rush for most people on either side of the fence.

not even close.

Rush is a blowhard that wants attetnion and stir up trouble.

Moore is the same - he using the Hollywood tools instead of the radio.

Both are pandering to their idiot base and it causing panic on the otherside - that is their aim.

Come on CC, even the most partisan Dem would roll his eyes at Moores "Wish List" where as 20 million avid listeners hang on to every word El Douche' pontificates every day.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Less exclamation points, less question marks, more spelling "bus" correctly.

Joking aside, who cares what Michael Moore has to say? Seriously?

Michael Moore is equivlent to Rush for most people on either side of the fence.

Yep. I don't find him quite as bad, but pretty much both of them should be put on a desert island.

 

[Genx87]

To be fair I think half of Rush's audience are liberals who like pain.

 

[MovingTarget]

I can't say I'm exactly a fan of Michael Moore, but he does make some good points. People complain that GM would be even worse off if they switched to making smaller more fuel efficient vehicles for years, but not doing so is part of what got them in that position today. The writing has been on the wall for decades. If they continue to ignore/avoid that segment of vehicles, they will continue to lose out to the Japanese and they may as well have gone into chapter 7 liquidation. Buh-bye American industrial base.

MM's comments on the gasoline tax are complete and total crap. This would only hurt the middle class and wipe out the working poor. Public transportation is a viable option in many places, but in vast areas of the country, this has been ignored for decades. Light rail is an excellent investment in many of these areas. Wind power is another good investment not only to improve the environment but to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. It is no substitute for base load in many areas, but it will go a long way in its contribution to our grid. For once, we need an actual industrial policy in this nation. Else, we will eventually lose our industrial base.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I live 5 miles from work, it is a 10 minute drive with traffic. Taking the bus would take me over an hour!! Why the hell am I going to give up my car so I can spend 2 hours a day in a bus??

Each religion has their sins. To the green, it's a modern vehicle. Thou shalt not drive.

 

[Genx87]

This guy is out to lunch. And what is the progressive fascination with going back to a mode of transportation from the 1800s? 17 hours to LA would

A. Be a pipe dream even if we spent the money to build a train
B. Still 11 hours longer than an airplane.

Rural areas need mass transit? lmao.

btw the solar panel industry doesnt have a problem with production capacity. They have a problem with reduced demand due to an economic downturn. So this brainiac would have us flood the market with solar panels nobody can afford.

Why doesnt he propose subsidies for companies to place workers in a home office enviornment. Thus taking them off the road all together?!?!?!?!?!?

2 dollar federal gax tax is the only way some of these alternative fuels look competitive. Makes sense he would support such a measure. Also forces low and middle class people onto his train\bus mass transit utopia. What a fucking idiot.

 

[NeoV]

Rush is a blatant liar who will stop at nothing to get his point across

Moore has good intentions for the most part, but is far too extreme in the end for just about anyone to take him seriously.

PJ, on the other hand - really thinks that Moore speaks for the Dem party - which is more idiotic than anything Rush of MM have to say

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Rush is a blatant liar who will stop at nothing to get his point across

Moore has good intentions for the most part, but is far too extreme in the end for just about anyone to take him seriously.

PJ, on the other hand - really thinks that Moore speaks for the Dem party - which is more idiotic than anything Rush of MM have to say

Moore sat next to Jimmy Carter at the Democrat National Convention in 04. He has somebody by the strings to get that kind of access. He represents a wing of the democrat party like Rush does on the Republican side. The policies will show up soon enough.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Moore has good intentions for the most part, but is far too extreme in the end for just about anyone to take him seriously.

I do not think his intentions are good.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak

Originally posted by: NeoV
Moore has good intentions for the most part, but is far too extreme in the end for just about anyone to take him seriously.

I do not think his intentions are good.

Then what do you think his intentions here are?

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Genx87
To be fair I think half of Rush's audience are liberals who like pain.

I don't listen to rush, but i cheer him on because he's a parasite destroying the GOP... not sure i'd call that "pain" :beer:

 

[Robor]

More faux outrage, PJ?

 

[BoberFett]

I used public transportation last night and I'm reminded by most people will continue to not use it.

It took an hour and a half to get home from the airport, something that would have taken twenty minutes by car alone. Not only that but that hour and a half was spent listening to thugs speak colorfully about how many people they had threatened that day with their piece.

I'll stick to my planet-destroying car, thanks.

 

[NeoV]

so the GOP stance is back to 'who cares how much gas we need/use'?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

So GM has gone under, and us taxpayers are stepping in to save it.

If our government was smart they would get out of the way and allow GM to emerge as a smaller and better run car company that can compete with t.

Instead there will be a ton of pressure put on Obama and others to turn GM into a 'green' business. Forget about the reasons for GM's existence, to make cars, and instead turn it into some social experiment to improve the world.

And there, you've answered your own dumbass question. For decades, "The Toyotas of the world" have been pounding GM and the rest of the American auto industry because they were smart enough to build smaller, more fuel efficient cars. In case you hadn't heard, "green" is in, "green" is kewl, and once again, "THE Toyota (singular) of the world" ate Detroit's shorts with their Prius.

GM is the reason GM failed, It's been coming for over two decades, and their bankruptcy has left our government unwillingly holding the bag and the reins. Now that we have them, at least we can direct GM to produce the only vehicles that will remain viable in future markets, those that address issues of quality, economy of ownership and the threats posed by toxic emissions and global warming.

That's change we can DRIVE in. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

What is worse then GM going bankrupt?

You posting a stupid thread about Micheal Moore as if what he thinks really matters:roll:

You're responding to PJ's stupid FUD as if what HE thinks really matters :laugh: