What is with the 'boomer' misuse?

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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,606
10,770
136
Who says I am making use of it? Just because the services are there doesn't mean I use them. You have the same services that I do, so what are you complaining about, I'm not taking more than you are.
He's not complaining about "socialism taking over" though!
It's also ok to have SOME things be socialized, I never said I was against that. But full blown socialism is not a good thing either.
Define "full blown socialism" and then show which western nations have it or are arguing for it.
It's basically taking everything you have and then giving only some of it back. But considering just how inefficient everything is now days I wouldn't be against privatizing more stuff and lowering taxes to compensate. For the amount of money we pay, what we get isin't all that much.
I mean you aren't going to get services for free just because they are privatised!
The USSR is the prime example of what true socialism is. The goal was to create a perfect utopia, and that is the goal of socialism as well, except it never works out that way. The ruling class are the ones that get most of everything. They take your wallet, and then give you 20 bucks, and say they're helping you.
You realise that there are different forms of "socialist" political systems in the same way that all capitalist nations aren't the same!
 
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Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,598
259
126
They were commies
No. The communist state was the goal. It was admitted that we were not there yet (this was what they were teaching in schools, for instance). The socialist state was an intermediary step (still not "perfect", but "getting there") towards achieving the full bliss of communism.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,058
13,517
126
www.anyf.ca
Define "full blown socialism" and then show which western nations have it or are arguing for it.
Pretty much the whole WEF/UN goals are to bring us to a full one world socialist state, and the stuff most liberal minded people seem to push for like high density housing, reducing car/house ownership, forcing people in smart cities etc. That's basically pure socialism. "You'll own nothing and be happy" and your whole life becomes reliant on government and your freedoms are greatly reduced in the process. It's not like that right now, but it really seems to be what lot of people and government are pushing for. I don't think they're going to necessarily force people into it but they will make their lives difficult if they don't. I even seen people on here celebrate the idea of high gas prices "because it makes people drive less". Wanting to control how people live is a very socialist mindset and we're going to continue seeing more of that.

Essentially, socialism is taking everything from everyone, and only giving them the bare minimum back in order to survive. It doesn't allow anyone to benefit from the fruit of their labour.

Edit: Made a twitter post asking the same, as I was curious to see the different responses.

 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,043
2,763
136
Pretty much the whole WEF/UN goals are to bring us to a full one world socialist state, and the stuff most liberal minded people seem to push for like high density housing, reducing car/house ownership, forcing people in smart cities etc. That's basically pure socialism. "You'll own nothing and be happy" and your whole life becomes reliant on government and your freedoms are greatly reduced in the process. It's not like that right now, but it really seems to be what lot of people and government are pushing for. I don't think they're going to necessarily force people into it but they will make their lives difficult if they don't. I even seen people on here celebrate the idea of high gas prices "because it makes people drive less". Wanting to control how people live is a very socialist mindset and we're going to continue seeing more of that.

Essentially, socialism is taking everything from everyone, and only giving them the bare minimum back in order to survive. It doesn't allow anyone to benefit from the fruit of their labour.
I don't think socialism is really all that.

Actually, it's really not easy to define.

But what it is based off of a false dichotomy and an assumption.
The dichotomy being private/public. The assumption that public=benevolent. And because of said benevolence, greater powers of enforcement are bestowed upon the government.

In actuality, the government itself operates in some manners just like a private company, but with immunities and compulsion powers.
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,598
259
126
The "own nothing and be happy" is basically how the final stage - the communist state - was described to the population.

In a socialist state, some private property was still allowed.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,606
10,770
136
Pretty much the whole WEF/UN goals are to bring us to a full one world socialist state, and the stuff most liberal minded people seem to push for like high density housing, reducing car/house ownership, forcing people in smart cities etc. That's basically pure socialism. "You'll own nothing and be happy" and your whole life becomes reliant on government and your freedoms are greatly reduced in the process. It's not like that right now, but it really seems to be what lot of people and government are pushing for. I don't think they're going to necessarily force people into it but they will make their lives difficult if they don't. I even seen people on here celebrate the idea of high gas prices "because it makes people drive less". Wanting to control how people live is a very socialist mindset and we're going to continue seeing more of that.

Essentially, socialism is taking everything from everyone, and only giving them the bare minimum back in order to survive. It doesn't allow anyone to benefit from the fruit of their labour.
Ok now we have worked out that you don't understand what socialism is we can all move on!
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,247
17,500
126
Anybody can google it and find 20 different explanations, I'm looking for one from you, that differs with mine. The general idea is that the means of production is owned by the government and everyone pitches in to help pay for it (taxes). But you have to look at the big picture. What does it take in order to enforce all of that?
no, Western Democracy style socialism means providing services that is too great a cost to individuals. It is cheaper for everyone to be on the same Health Insurance policy (our Universal Healthcare) then everyone getting their own health insurance. Same with pension, EI, police, fire departments, EMS, etc, etc. All of that is a benefit provided through social contract.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,606
10,770
136
Anybody can google it and find 20 different explanations, I'm looking for one from you, that differs with mine. The general idea is that the means of production is owned by the government and everyone pitches in to help pay for it (taxes). But you have to look at the big picture. What does it take in order to enforce all of that?
Dude, you can't just say "yeah that's what it says Socialism is but here's what I say it really is..." then make up your own definition!
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,458
866
126
Reddit is a ultra liberal cess-pool made up of unemployed weed smoking basement dwellers and OF promoters...

Stay out of the main subs that promote endless shitposting, focus on the niche and you'll avoid the losers with their incessant meme posts.
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,598
259
126
That's not a cup holder. That's an cigarettes ashtray, but he is missing the single use part, made from aluminium foil.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,867
9,788
136
Pretty much the whole WEF/UN goals are to bring us to a full one world socialist state, and the stuff most liberal minded people seem to push for like high density housing, reducing car/house ownership, forcing people in smart cities etc. That's basically pure socialism. "You'll own nothing and be happy" and your whole life becomes reliant on government and your freedoms are greatly reduced in the process. It's not like that right now, but it really seems to be what lot of people and government are pushing for. I don't think they're going to necessarily force people into it but they will make their lives difficult if they don't. I even seen people on here celebrate the idea of high gas prices "because it makes people drive less". Wanting to control how people live is a very socialist mindset and we're going to continue seeing more of that.

Essentially, socialism is taking everything from everyone, and only giving them the bare minimum back in order to survive. It doesn't allow anyone to benefit from the fruit of their labour.

Too crazy to properly engage with. Falls under "not even wrong". Weird collection of random issues, few of which have much to do with 'socialism' at all.

I am just curious though how someone ends up with such a weird, distorted perspective - presumably it says something about the nature of rural North Americans? This feels like arguing with someone from another planet.

For starters, most socialists I've known regarded the UN as a tool of US imperialism. (and thus have always disliked it). And most regard the WEF as an instrument of international capitalism (along with the World Bank and the IMF).

I'm all in favour of higher density housing, and reducing car use (I _hate_ the dominance of the motor car), but neither have much to do with socialism.

On the contrary, have known many lifelong socialists who _loved_ driving. Personally, I feel more strongly about reducing car use than I do about socialism.

My lack of belief in socialism is for very different reasons than the weird collection of unrelated issues that you cite.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,886
4,467
126
Well, "actual definition of socialism" and actual socialism are different.

Let me get this straight. I stated that people use words in ways other "than as its original meaning". And, you come along and argue that actually the use of words is different from their definition? Am I reading your posts correctly? How is that any different from what I originally posted?
 
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Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,598
259
126
Read again the posts in order. I won't repeat myself.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,043
2,763
136
Anybody can google it and find 20 different explanations, I'm looking for one from you, that differs with mine. The general idea is that the means of production is owned by the government and everyone pitches in to help pay for it (taxes). But you have to look at the big picture. What does it take in order to enforce all of that?
The only thing you are correct about is recognizing that whatever textbook definition of socialism there is, it is distinct from the operation of agents attempting implement it or after implementation, the operation of government after it is "socialized". However, it is clear you are not experienced with any true commie or socialist government in operation, unbridled by checks not related to any economic -ism. Only those who already have lived the commie system or have received credible testimony of the operation of the state, like Russians, chinese, Cubans, etc are qualified to discuss the government system practically.

The welfare state part of socialism is generally harmless to the populace in terms of rights, because all it is essentially finances and does not really change the government's ability to exercise power over a citizen. The expansion of power at all costs to obtain some benevolent ideal and the foolish trust that government itself would not abuse such expanded powers, is the problem. That's where the ass-kissing of government sets the legal foundation to a government with no political competition.

In actual fact, the socialist/capitalist dichotomy completely is irrelevant to the operation of government and certain "bending forces" the government is subject to in the Anglosphere. Due process does not exist because of either; due process is the result of the legal operation of the government and reaction against it. Basically, the machinery involved are distant from each other.

Socialism is a pursuit of the correction of [supposedly] economic and social ills...and at all costs and without regard for the need to inhibit the ability of government to exercise power, the latter done so because of perceived trustworthiness of government and perceived necessity. As such, it winds being a way for unintentionally forming the basis of a totalitarian state by mass consent, politically repressive state. Government becomes the one primary company of the land.

Government in general tends towards a steady state regardless of the façade used to get to that steady state, and it's not what is currently present in the English speaking countries. Government also has it's own "mind" even though it's literally an entity on paper.
One of the invisible hands of government is putting land to use. This is whys squatting is allowed. It's penalty for idleness. A judge may personally be sympathetic to a landowner and personally would hate it if they got squatted. But when push comes to shove, the system is preserved. Every actual government social contract starts with "Work, my bitch constituents, I own your ass".
So inevitably, enough of the populace must provide labor in order for the government to feed itself.