What is white privilege?

[berzerker60]

Best post of the thread look at that, thanks.

My problem with this though is it all across the nation and are all whites to blame? If so how do we fix it? What does the black community want done?

I am not going to fall back on the thug culture here because the obvious rebuttal to that would be the 60's - late 80's the same issues were happening (all across the nation? or just in the South)

It's not really about "blame." That's part of why people get so prickly and won't face that privilege exists, because they think they're being attacked as a racist or something. The whole concept of 'privilege' was/is about making people aware of what they have in their favor that others don't, to shut down arguments that "well I got an education and succeeded in business, anyone who doesn't is just lazy and stupid." You don't have to flagellate yourself and give all your possessions away (though charity is still a plus). You're part of a society that was built very centrally around racism, and it's gotten better, but there are still enough traces there that you need to be aware things are tilted in your favor. You're playing on Easy Mode, some people are playing on Hard Mode. You don't have to feel shitty about winning, you're not 'to blame' for the other person having more difficulty, but you need to understand it's not the same. That's all the talk about being aware of privilege is about.

 

[nehalem256]

It's not really about "blame." That's part of why people get so prickly and won't face that privilege exists, because they think they're being attacked as a racist or something. The whole concept of 'privilege' was/is about making people aware of what they have in their favor that others don't, to shut down arguments that "well I got an education and succeeded in business, anyone who doesn't is just lazy and stupid." You don't have to flagellate yourself and give all your possessions away (though charity is still a plus). You're part of a society that was built very centrally around racism, and it's gotten better, but there are still enough traces there that you need to be aware things are tilted in your favor. You're playing on Easy Mode, some people are playing on Hard Mode. You don't have to feel shitty about winning, you're not 'to blame' for the other person having more difficulty, but you need to understand it's not the same. That's all the talk about being aware of privilege is about.

So why don't you see liberals talking about "intact-family privilege"?* Which makes a lot more sense than so called "white privilege" given that Asian people have no problems succeeding? Or are you embracing the Nazi idea that Asians count as honorary white people?

*Well I mean other than the fact that it pretty much eviscerates the entire liberal ideology?

 

[HomerJS]

So why don't you see liberals talking about "intact-family privilege"?* Which makes a lot more sense than so called "white privilege" given that Asian people have no problems succeeding? Or are you embracing the Nazi idea that Asians count as honorary white people?

*Well I mean other than the fact that it pretty much eviscerates the entire liberal ideology?

In tact family privilege doesn't account for cop pulling you over and saying "hey boy where did you get that car"

 

[berzerker60]

So why don't you see liberals talking about "intact-family privilege"?* Which makes a lot more sense than so called "white privilege" given that Asian people have no problems succeeding? Or are you embracing the Nazi idea that Asians count as honorary white people?

*Well I mean other than the fact that it pretty much eviscerates the entire liberal ideology?

If you go around assuming everyone else had an intact family and that people who come from broken homes have some kind of issues should 'just get over them' because obviously YOU don't have those kinds of issues, then yes, you have intact family privilege. That's far from the extent of it, though.

There are all kinds of privilege you can talk about. Mental health privilege where you assume everyone else should just 'get over' their depression or bipolar disorder or whatever is a real thing, just a term you don't see that often. Same with straight privilege (though that's less and less of an issue as society does less to oppress homosexuals), etc. You DO hear about these when they're relevant. It's just that race is such a big issue in American history and politics that yo hear about white privilege more than most other types. Wealth privilege exists too, of course, and leads people to think that "I succeeded, so anyone else can too!" even though their success is partly due to having gone to a good school, having good nutritious food available, getting to go on trips and expand their minds and experiences that way, etc.

Also, you saying Asians don't face any discrimination in America today just reveals how blind your privilege makes you.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/29/us/us-study-says-asian-americans-face-widespread-discrimination.html
Asians also weren't the victims of literally decades of Jim Crow legislation across the South, during which time in some places literally generations were left with no public schooling options whatsoever when states shut down schools rather than segregate them, didn't face riot cops with dogs, hoses, and rubber bullets for peaceful assembly. Asians have faced serious discrimination through US history and still do, but it's undeniable that anti-black racism was a fundamental part of the nation's history and it's only been less than a lifetime since it was formally removed from the law books and widespread murder, intimidation, and terrorism stopped.

 

[nehalem256]

If you go around assuming everyone else had an intact family and that people who come from broken homes have some kind of issues should 'just get over them' because obviously YOU don't have those kinds of issues, then yes, you have intact family privilege. That's far from the extent of it, though.

And why don't liberals talk about "intact-family privilege". That was the question. I mean its pretty obvious why, but it is fun watching you squirm.

Just because liberals were unable to destroy my family isn't going to make me feel bad.

There are all kinds of privilege you can talk about. Mental health privilege where you assume everyone else should just 'get over' their depression or bipolar disorder or whatever is a real thing, just a term you don't see that often. Same with straight privilege (though that's less and less of an issue as society does less to oppress homosexuals), etc. You DO hear about these when they're relevant. It's just that race is such a big issue in American history and politics that yo hear about white privilege more than most other types. Wealth privilege exists too, of course, and leads people to think that "I succeeded, so anyone else can too!" even though their success is partly due to having gone to a good school, having good nutritious food available, getting to go on trips and expand their minds and experiences that way, etc.

Sorry but things like having an intact family are far more important. Which is why Asian immigrants can come with nothing but the rags on their back and become upper middle class, while black people cannot.

Or do you think that Asians are just naturally superior to blacks?

Also, you saying Asians don't face any discrimination in America today just reveals how blind your privilege makes you.
http://www.nytimes.com/[B]1992/02/29[/B]/us/us-study-says-asian-americans-face-widespread-discrimination.html
Asians also weren't the victims of literally decades of Jim Crow legislation across the South, during which time in some places literally generations were left with no public schooling options whatsoever when states shut down schools rather than segregate them, didn't face riot cops with dogs, hoses, and rubber bullets for peaceful assembly. Asians have faced serious discrimination through US history and still do, but it's undeniable that anti-black racism was a fundamental part of the nation's history and it's only been less than a lifetime since it was formally removed from the law books and widespread murder, intimidation, and terrorism stopped.

1992/02/29
Notice the bolded.

 

[werepossum]

It's not really about "blame." That's part of why people get so prickly and won't face that privilege exists, because they think they're being attacked as a racist or something. The whole concept of 'privilege' was/is about making people aware of what they have in their favor that others don't, to shut down arguments that "well I got an education and succeeded in business, anyone who doesn't is just lazy and stupid." You don't have to flagellate yourself and give all your possessions away (though charity is still a plus). You're part of a society that was built very centrally around racism, and it's gotten better, but there are still enough traces there that you need to be aware things are tilted in your favor. You're playing on Easy Mode, some people are playing on Hard Mode. You don't have to feel shitty about winning, you're not 'to blame' for the other person having more difficulty, but you need to understand it's not the same. That's all the talk about being aware of privilege is about.

I don't disagree, but I do think it's important to realize that white privilege based on being white has largely evaporated, being replaced with de facto white privilege based on socioeconomic standing. If you are the child of a successful black heart surgeon, your opportunities are immensely greater and your life immensely easier than that of the child of a white crack whore. To the extent that white privilege still exists in important areas, I think it is largely because blacks are on average at a lower economic level. I would not disagree that this is because of past white privilege though. Slavery obviously leaves one unprepared for life as a free person, and beyond that, the whole point of segregation, Jim Crow laws, white-only education, etc. was to produce and maintain white privilege. That has been abolished for half a century now, so we're still seeing its lingering effects plus new factors. Ironic, but some of the things designed to help people, like welfare, also have very bad negative effects. Other things simply take a generation or two to work themselves out - blacks are no longer barred from any schools (and sometimes even get preferential admission) but that doesn't help one's parents pay for those schools, nor give them the money to pay tuition. That's a generational climb that takes good decisions and a lot of hard work, and we've seen that it isn't easy to shorten this process. To the extent that blacks embrace education and hard work within the system, they will prosper. To the extent that blacks reject embrace education and hard work within the system, they will not prosper. There's a name for that club; it's called everybody.

Other areas are typically more irritants than obstacles, like more difficulty getting a cab or getting lower tips (including from blacks) as a server or bartender.

 

[berzerker60]

And why don't liberals talk about "intact-family privilege". That was the question. I mean its pretty obvious why, but it is fun watching you squirm.

Just because liberals were unable to destroy my family isn't going to make me feel bad.

Oh yes, that's me, squirming away. Look at me squirm, the squirmiest of them all.

You don't hear it phrased that way because it's an awkward phrase that doesn't capture all of what's at stake. Yes, intact families correlate with greater success. There are many types of institutional things keeping black people from having as easy of a time succeeding, too. People already (obviously) don't understand what's meant by 'white privilege' in the first place, which isn't always their fault because it's a fairly new term that's also already kind of falling out of favor because it's been overused. Breaking that down into every possible term just sounds dumb. But people absolutely talk about the importance of nurturing parents, and you're insane or willfully ignorant if you don't know that.

Sorry but things like having an intact family are far more important. Which is why Asian immigrants can come with nothing but the rags on their back and become upper middle class, while black people cannot.

Or do you think that Asians are just naturally superior to blacks?

This is basically too stupid to respond to, congrats on just saying stuff without support and ending with a bizarre projection.

1992/02/29
Notice the bolded.

Oh yes, I forgot that racism disappeared 6 years ago. How silly of me.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_12/discrimination_against_asian_a041954.php
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/19/fears-of-an-asian-quota-in-the-ivy-league/discrimination-is-obvious

 

[berzerker60]

I don't disagree, but I do think it's important to realize that white privilege based on being white has largely evaporated, being replaced with de facto white privilege based on socioeconomic standing. If you are the child of a successful black heart surgeon, your opportunities are immensely greater and your life immensely easier than that of the child of a white crack whore. To the extent that white privilege still exists in important areas, I think it is largely because blacks are on average at a lower economic level. I would not disagree that this is because of past white privilege though. Slavery obviously leaves one unprepared for life as a free person, and beyond that, the whole point of segregation, Jim Crow laws, white-only education, etc. was to produce and maintain white privilege. That has been abolished for half a century now, so we're still seeing its lingering effects plus new factors. Ironic, but some of the things designed to help people, like welfare, also have very bad negative effects. Other things simply take a generation or two to work themselves out - blacks are no longer barred from any schools (and sometimes even get preferential admission) but that doesn't help one's parents pay for those schools, nor give them the money to pay tuition. That's a generational climb that takes good decisions and a lot of hard work, and we've seen that it isn't easy to shorten this process. To the extent that blacks embrace education and hard work within the system, they will prosper. To the extent that blacks reject embrace education and hard work within the system, they will not prosper. There's a name for that club; it's called everybody.

Other areas are typically more irritants than obstacles, like more difficulty getting a cab or getting lower tips (including from blacks) as a server or bartender.

I basically agree with this, though there are also some bigger obstacles - "black" sounding names getting fewer callbacks for job interviews despite identical resumes, etc.

I don't think people learn enough history today (especially of the recent past, most high schools don't get beyond WWII), and most people born in the 80s and after don't get just how recently things were so, so horrible. Jim Crow isn't something out of the distant past, it was a reality for lots of people alive today. Like you say, it's going to take some time to truly create equal opportunity for everyone, but without that historical context, people seem to think everything should just go *poof* and pretend we're starting from the same mark.

 

[HomerJS]

I don't disagree, but I do think it's important to realize that white privilege based on being white has largely evaporated, being replaced with de facto white privilege based on socioeconomic standing. If you are the child of a successful black heart surgeon, your opportunities are immensely greater and your life immensely easier than that of the child of a white crack whore. To the extent that white privilege still exists in important areas, I think it is largely because blacks are on average at a lower economic level. I would not disagree that this is because of past white privilege though. Slavery obviously leaves one unprepared for life as a free person, and beyond that, the whole point of segregation, Jim Crow laws, white-only education, etc. was to produce and maintain white privilege. That has been abolished for half a century now, so we're still seeing its lingering effects plus new factors. Ironic, but some of the things designed to help people, like welfare, also have very bad negative effects. Other things simply take a generation or two to work themselves out - blacks are no longer barred from any schools (and sometimes even get preferential admission) but that doesn't help one's parents pay for those schools, nor give them the money to pay tuition. That's a generational climb that takes good decisions and a lot of hard work, and we've seen that it isn't easy to shorten this process. To the extent that blacks embrace education and hard work within the system, they will prosper. To the extent that blacks reject embrace education and hard work within the system, they will not prosper. There's a name for that club; it's called everybody.

Other areas are typically more irritants than obstacles, like more difficulty getting a cab or getting lower tips (including from blacks) as a server or bartender.

I do agree with some of what you said (bold) while not using "largely eveporated".

Don Lemon the CNN host noted even though he grew up in a good middle class family with means it took him getting this job to graduate from ni**er to sir in the eyes of the police. I would classify that as more then an irritant.

Take a look at the clip I posted earlier.

 

[Patranus]

I do agree with some of what you said (bold) while not using "largely eveporated".

Don Lemon the CNN host noted even though he grew up in a good middle class family with means it took him getting this job to graduate from ni**er to sir in the eyes of the police. I would classify that as more then an irritant.

Take a look at the clip I posted earlier.

Huh, a TV personality looking for ratings broadcasting unsubstantiated claims to further his race based position in an attempt to gin up ratings.

Color me shocked!!!

 

[werepossum]

I basically agree with this, though there are also some bigger obstacles - "black" sounding names getting fewer callbacks for job interviews despite identical resumes, etc.

I don't think people learn enough history today (especially of the recent past, most high schools don't get beyond WWII), and most people born in the 80s and after don't get just how recently things were so, so horrible. Jim Crow isn't something out of the distant past, it was a reality for lots of people alive today. Like you say, it's going to take some time to truly create equal opportunity for everyone, but without that historical context, people seem to think everything should just go *poof* and pretend we're starting from the same mark.

I had not thought of black sounding names, but you are correct, that is a major life-changing thing.

I do agree with some of what you said (bold) while not using "largely eveporated".

Don Lemon the CNN host noted even though he grew up in a good middle class family with means it took him getting this job to graduate from ni**er to sir in the eyes of the police. I would classify that as more then an irritant.

Take a look at the clip I posted earlier.

I'll try to look at it this weekend, don't have time right now. I can read and type very quickly, but I can't make video go anything but excruciatingly slowly!

 

[Jhhnn]

Huh, a TV personality looking for ratings broadcasting unsubstantiated claims to further his race based position in an attempt to gin up ratings.

Color me shocked!!!

While you, of course, claim that his POV isn't valid, but yours is.

You just asserted white privilege.

The term denotes both obvious and less obvious unspoken advantages that white individuals may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice.[1] These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; greater presumed social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely.[2] The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal. It can be compared and/or combined with the concept of male privilege.

From Wiki linked earlier.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

White privilege is not thinking twice about having a white acquaintance come over & tend to your lawn & landscaping while you're away for the day.
But you have to inform your neighbors when a POC is doing your lawn & landscaping while you're gone for the day, lest they call the cops because he's clearly up to no good.

 

[HomerJS]

Huh, a TV personality looking for ratings broadcasting unsubstantiated claims to further his race based position in an attempt to gin up ratings.

Color me shocked!!!

So to make you feel good you would have us believe everyone on the panel entirely made up their encounters, including the white guy???

 

[Siddhartha]

With all of the news about Trayvon, Paula Deen, etc I have read "White Privilege" being thrown around a hell of a lot. In one in particular post it was very forcefully voiced that even if you are poor, are uneducated, white and homeless that you still had a higher status in life over an educated black man in America all due to white privilege.

Can someone explain this to me? I don't even want to go into cultural use of words and how it's not racist, I don't care about Ron Paul jokes, and I don't care we have a black president.

I want to understand why you can be a poor white man and still have White Privilege over a wealthy black man in the eyes of some of these folks posting across the internet.

If this becomes ridiculous I'll post in DC.

I can give you a result of the White Priviege mindset. The Birthers exhibit it to the hilt. No matter how much evidence they are given they can not accept the legitimacy of Mr Obama's presidency because it challenges their core belief that "whites" are superior to everyone else.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

With all of the news about Trayvon, Paula Deen, etc I have read "White Privilege" being thrown around a hell of a lot. In one in particular post it was very forcefully voiced that even if you are poor, are uneducated, white and homeless that you still had a higher status in life over an educated black man in America all due to white privilege.

Can someone explain this to me? I don't even want to go into cultural use of words and how it's not racist, I don't care about Ron Paul jokes, and I don't care we have a black president.

I want to understand why you can be a poor white man and still have White Privilege over a wealthy black man in the eyes of some of these folks posting across the internet.

If this becomes ridiculous I'll post in DC.

White privilege is the fact that I, and every other white male I know, is doing better in producing peer reviewed research than any non-white or non-male.

In the cocktail party that is social networking, the tall white male is assumed to be knowledgeable, powerful, leaderly, insightful, and all-around the peson to talk to. It's a societal assumption ingrained in everyone, even those with the best intentions.

 

[buckshot24]

I'm sure there is a difference in the way people interact with you in daily life based solely on the way you look. If you're white you have a certain experience and when you're black you have something else. Me being white I may be told that I don't know what it's like to be black so I don't understand. Granted. But, the black guy doesn't know what it's like to be white either. Maybe life on the white side isn't as easy as those on the outside may believe.