What is up with the Middle East now?

Remobz

Platinum Member
Jun 9, 2005
2,564
37
91
Hey all,

I was reading CNN today....

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/16/world/meast/mideast-region-in-flames/index.html#comment-1488254782

Some people there were hoping the Assad Government defeats ISIS because ISIS is evil. I am like WTF? Backing one barbaric group over another even more barbaric group!!! Insane!

Then I hear the age old argument that Christians were very barbaric and war like hundreds of years ago...blah...blah...blah...

Seriously, modern Muslims can be just as or even more barbaric on larger scales than any Christians were back then. Muslim Countries have or want the technology to kill each other (fellow Muslims) and the infidels on a larger scale if left unchecked.

I feel sorry for the innocent people and the region on a whole but Muslims who keep blaming Christians or Western Societies for our barbaric nature and past need to tone it down a little.

I have a headache now:(
 

jana519

Senior member
Jul 12, 2014
782
101
106
In the Middle East, a dictator who kills his own people is preferable to a hostile Islamic government in America's eyes.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
Are you a soccer mom? This sounds like a weak rant from a 45yr old mother of three. Lol, yeah the middle east needs to "tone it down a bit".

In other news, I took a smelly dump today.
 

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,432
142
106
America fought a brutal and ghastly civil war to earn its freedom. Europe fought two terrible world wars before it finally learned peace. And while bitterness remains in the nations of Asia, they at least understand the wrought devastation brought about by imperial conquest.

I absolutely hate seeing people suffer. The effects of war are atrocious and the innocent pay its price, but it may be necessary in the long term for the people of the Middle East to physically see the ruin of war on this scale to influence a change in its ways. Until then, we pray for the safety of the families and the innocent of those regions, and we hope that in time the people as a whole will rise up and say no more; preferring to choose a more peaceful and cooperative existence with each other than living by the sword.
 

squarecut1

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2013
2,230
5
46
Yes like I said before, middle east is going through a similar phase as Europe did. That does not make it any less tragic though
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,828
10,127
136
In the Middle East, a dictator who kills his own people is preferable to a hostile Islamic government in America's eyes.

Less violence is preferable. Dictators = less violence than tribal warfare.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Are you a soccer mom? This sounds like a weak rant from a 45yr old mother of three. Lol, yeah the middle east needs to "tone it down a bit".

In other news, I took a smelly dump today
But in your cereal bowl doesn`t count...
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
In the Middle East, a dictator who kills his own people is preferable to a hostile Islamic government in America's eyes.

Not necessarily. If that dictator aligns with Iran and Russia, then it may well be preferable to have a hostile Islamic government that doesn't align with Iran/Russia.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
They're being all MiddleEasterly

Sadly, this. The Middle East has always consisted of warring tribes when it wasn't under the thumb of an oppressive empire/dictator. Muhammad himself came to power by conquering and allying said tribes, and sure enough once he died they more-or-less went back to warring with each other, producing the Shia/Sunni split among other things.

The West went through a similar period, but in time embraced science and reason and correspondingly prospered. The Arabs have imported the fruits of this prosperity, but culturally remain stuck in the late middle ages. More and more are seeing the light though, particularly in the cities. They want what the West has. But before they can get it Islam needs to shake off the Sheiks and evolve as Christianity did with the old Catholic Church, unfortunately this runs directly counter to the teachings of Islam. Turkey is perhaps the most culturally advanced Islamic nation, and even they have only a tenuous embrace of secularization.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
Not necessarily. If that dictator aligns with Iran and Russia, then it may well be preferable to have a hostile Islamic government that doesn't align with Iran/Russia.

Eeyup. The enemy of my enemy is my frienemy. It's all very complicated.
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
Hey all,

I was reading CNN today....

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/16/world/meast/mideast-region-in-flames/index.html#comment-1488254782

Some people there were hoping the Assad Government defeats ISIS because ISIS is evil. I am like WTF? Backing one barbaric group over another even more barbaric group!!! Insane!

Then I hear the age old argument that Christians were very barbaric and war like hundreds of years ago...blah...blah...blah...

Seriously, modern Muslims can be just as or even more barbaric on larger scales than any Christians were back then. Muslim Countries have or want the technology to kill each other (fellow Muslims) and the infidels on a larger scale if left unchecked.

I feel sorry for the innocent people and the region on a whole but Muslims who keep blaming Christians or Western Societies for our barbaric nature and past need to tone it down a little.

I have a headache now:(


Assad is good compared to ISIS. ISIS is devout Sunni Muslim, and unfortunately that implies Sharia Law along with the bullshit that brings with it, and its ALOT of bullshit. From petty stuff such as veiling mannacins to Forcing Christians to choose between paying a religious tax, converting or leaving the country [or death if you say no to all 3]...You have human rights violations/intolerance/bigotry rolled all in one and its called Islamic law. Its a toxic combo, and it belongs in the 7th century not the 21st.

Assad is atleast secular, his existance depends on being that way. His 15% Alawite +10% Christian population support gives him some pull in the country. His tolerance is whats keeping him in power.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
Let's put peonyu's motivations and comments into perspective. Click his profile, as this is what he advocates:

"STOP HATE CRIME -- CLOSE DOWN MOSQUES, MADRASSAS, & ISLAMIC BOOKSHOPS"
Another little bigoted and hate speech filled little Hitler, and welcomed long time regular for this forum. Who else in history had despicable rants to demonise, blame the all followers, end eradicate a religion?
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0
Iraq, perhaps with help from its two neighbors, must come to terms with its own internal crisis. It can do so; sectarianism as a guiding obsession is not written in stone. Strong sectarian identity currently reflects the insecurities and fears of a complex society in chaos and political and social transition. US intervention, already once disastrous, can only delay the day when Iraqis must deal with each other again. We cannot fix it. Television images of ISIS aside, the problem belongs to the region more than it does to us.

After what happened the last time the US tried to help, I think its best to let them work it out themselves.

Uno
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
They don't know what to do with themselves if they aren't murdering each other wholesale.
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
Let's put peonyu's motivations and comments into perspective. Click his profile, as this is what he advocates:

Another little bigoted and hate speech filled little Hitler, and welcomed long time regular for this forum. Who else in history had despicable rants to demonise, blame the all followers, end eradicate a religion?



Hitler was a ally of the Muslims and he idolized Muhammad so much so that he wished Muslims would have conquered Europe when they had the chance to in the 700's. The Militancy of Islam coupled with the hatred of Jews that is contained in the Quran meshed well his own beliefs, so obviously calling me a Hitler is Lol as the Nazis and Islam were natural friends. I fashion myself more as a Winston Churchill anyways...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_River_War

""How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die: but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.[5]:248–250""
-Winston Churchill


In constrast to Hitler below


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world

""A famous anecdote about Adolf Hitler's perspectives towards Islam and the Arabs is recounted by Albert Speer in his best-selling memoir, Inside the Third Reich. Speer reports that "Hitler had been much impressed by a scrap of history he had learned from a delegation of distinguished Arabs."[1] The delegation had speculated that the world would have become "Mohammedan" if the Berbers and Arabs had won the Battle of Tours in the 8th Century AD, and that the Germans would have become heirs to "a religion that believed in spreading the faith by the sword and in subjugating all nations to that faith. Such a creed was perfectly suited to the German temperament."[2] Speer then presents Hitler's own speculations on this subject:

Hitler said that the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate of the country. They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire.[3]

This exchange occurred when Hitler received Saudi Arabian ruler Ibn Saud’s special envoy, Khalid al-Hud al-Gargani.[4] Earlier in this meeting Hitler noted that one of the three reasons why Germany had warm sympathies for the Arabs was:

… because we were jointly fighting the Jews. This led him to discuss Palestine and conditions there, and he then stated that he himself would not rest until the last Jew had left Germany. Kalid al Hud observed that the Prophet Mohammed … had acted the same way. He had driven the Jews out of Arabia …[5]""



Hitler also created 3 Muslim SS divisions and unleashed them upon the Balkans to kill Christians and Jews:


""Eventually three divisions of Muslim SS soldiers were involved in the Balkans region. These included: The Waffen SS 13th Handschar, 21st Skanderberg,[66] and the 23rd Kama "Dagger". The Nazis granted the Muslim Divisions, most specifically the Bosnian Divisions, more autonomy and less restrictions from the Croatian Regime.[67] For instance, in the Handschar SS Division headquarters the picture of the Croatian head of state was replaced by a photo of Haj Amin al-Husseini, and the Handschar were perceived as undermining Croatian authority.[68]

Edwin Black writes:

Although Handschar was mostly an anti-partisan force, when they did encounter Jews, the brutality exhibited shocked even the local villagers who were accustomed to Nazi atrocitires. In one case, Hungarian Jewish slave laborers being guarded by Handschar were so viciously and mercilessly abused, local townspeople became outraged and wondered if they could help. But they could not. The maltreated Jews quickly became incapable of continuing in their work project. At that point, they were all marched away for mass shooting.[69]

The Muslim Waffen SS divisions participated in a number of operations (both conventional and unconventional) against the partisans. In 1944 these included Operation Signpost, Operation Sava, and Operation Easter Egg.[69] Although 21st Waffen SS Division Skanderberg consisted of less than 6,500 active-duty troops, Black writes:

"its men were brutal in decimating Serb villages, having called for the utter extermination of the Serbian Christian population. Jews were luckier than the Serbs because many Albanian Muslims risked their lives and those of their families to shelter the small Jewish population of several hundred. Nevertheless, Skanderberg units rounded up some 300 Jews in Pristina and ... other Jews ... who were later deported to certain death."[69]""
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
Let's put peonyu's motivations and comments into perspective. Click his profile, as this is what he advocates:

Another little bigoted and hate speech filled little Hitler, and welcomed long time regular for this forum. Who else in history had despicable rants to demonise, blame the all followers, end eradicate a religion?


Anyways whats your opinion on the thread topic ? Have you have bought into our government propaganda and think Assad is worse than ISIS ? My take of it is, If we were to help take down Assad then Muslim fundamentalists will take over Syria; just as they did in Libya and elsewhere, and nothing good comes from Islamic law imo. So right off the bat the alternative option to Assad is a bad one. In Syria's case especially [unlike Libya where the country is 100% Muslim], there are plenty of non-Muslims around, and if Assad is removed they will be the first to have their rights violated.

Assad is no angel himself. But hes the lesser of 2 evils, originally it did look like "secular" rebels would take down Assad - which to me would have been great. But that virus known as Devout Islam soon took command of the Rebellion and now the choice is between bad [Assad] or Nazi type of Bad [Islamic law].
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,669
266
126
A scorpion approached a fox and asked him to give him a ride across a river. 'No', said the fox, 'you'll surely sting me and I'll die'. The scorpion replied, 'but if you die, so will I. Why would I do such a thing to myself?' So, the fox relented and let the scorpion crawl on his head and the set out across the river. Half way across, the scorpion stung the fox on the nose. 'What did you dooo!!!!', the fox cried. 'Now we will both die!!'. The scorpion simply replied, 'this is the Middle East, what did you expect?'