What is up with gas prices?

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Engineer
Gasonline refinieries conveniently shut down for maintenance.

They do that around this time every year as they get ready for the various summer blends they have to produce.

While true, there are more shut down this year because of Katrina maintenance that wasn't done. They couldn't do it before the summer driving season/switchover occured. They had to get right into the middle and then do it.

Also, some 10% of refinery capactiy isn't up to speed yet because of Katrina. And why should they hurry. Profit, profit...profit!!!

Most of the profit comes from sucking the oil up out of the ground. By the time the oil reaches the refineries and on to the gas stations, the profit margins get thinner and thinner.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Engineer
While true, there are more shut down this year because of Katrina maintenance that wasn't done. They couldn't do it before the summer driving season/switchover occured. They had to get right into the middle and then do it.

if you have to take the refinery offline to switch over to summer mix it makes the most sense to do the maintenance at that time as well.

and it isn't summer driving season yet. it isn't even may yet. where are you that kids are out of school already?

Also, some 10% of refinery capactiy isn't up to speed yet because of Katrina. And why should they hurry. Profit, profit...profit!!!

refineries don't make money when they're down. i'm sure BP is keeping their refineries offline just so exxon can make more money.





historically, the prices of oil and related take huge swings in prices on just small percentages of over or undersupply.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Most of the profit comes from sucking the oil up out of the ground. By the time the oil reaches the refineries and on to the gas stations, the profit margins get thinner and thinner.

true that. a well that was profitable at $20 a barrel is getting an extra $50 of profit per barrel right now. the farmer gets 1/8 (free and clear of the costs of production, though) and the oil companies get 7/8 (but they have to pay to bring it out of the ground). 7/8 of $50 is still a good chunk of change.



of course, the US government made more money on oil last year than all of the oil companies combined, but the oil companies are the demon and the proposed fix is to let uncle sam make even more money on oil so they can piss it away on stupid crap like the bridge to nowhere.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: ElFenix


refineries don't make money when they're down. i'm sure BP is keeping their refineries offline just so exxon can make more money.

If you can make the "SAME" revenues with MORE profit with LESS product, then it's not a problem. You think Exxon is the only oil company with RISING profits (not just amounts, but percentages too)?

Same logic as telling Disney World that they should lower prices on their food stands or add more stands? Why when the food stand lines are around the corner with no end in sight?

Big oil has come to the realization that people will continue to pay HIGHER and HIGHER prices (even if on borrowed money - hense negative savings rate for the first time since 1934) and will do so until the market demand corrects itself.

Also, no mention of "supply and demand" when oil inventories are at an 8 year high?

Sure, world demand is up from that time but oil was 11 per barrel 8 years ago.

 

[Baked]

Some executives need to buy a new 400 ft yachts and new mansions for their mistress.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Baked
Some executives need to buy a new 400 ft yachts and new mansions for their mistress.

Or get $400,000,000 retirement packages (recent Exxon chairman's retirement package).

 

[m2kewl]

found out one of my uncle just got a new Lexus RX350 in Cali.

dumbass!

 

[Kelemvor]

And of course I'm starting a new job on May 1st that wil go from a 6mi commute each way to a 20 mile one. *sigh*

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Baked
Some executives need to buy a new 400 ft yachts and new mansions for their mistress.

Or get $400,000,000 retirement packages (recent Exxon chairman's retirement package).

In the 12 years he helmed Exxon, share prices went up 500% and Exxon enjoyed record profits. Perhaps he earned it?

BTW, you do know that the oil companies paid more in taxes than they made in profit, right? Actually, when you think about it, consumers paid for the oil companies tax expenses....

 

[ballmode]

What's up? They are going up

 

[Random Variable]

Let the price go up to $4.00 a gallon. I don't care.

 

[giantpinkbunnyhead]

I paid 2.76 for premium this week.

Last week I paid 2.34 for premium.

AND WE DRILL MOST OF THIS COUNTRY'S OIL HERE!!! (well not most but a lot)

I wish I could just drive my truck to the end of the pipeline and say "fill'er up!"

Wonder what I'll pay next week?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Baked
Some executives need to buy a new 400 ft yachts and new mansions for their mistress.

Or get $400,000,000 retirement packages (recent Exxon chairman's retirement package).

In the 12 years he helmed Exxon, share prices went up 500% and Exxon enjoyed record profits. Perhaps he earned it?

BTW, you do know that the oil companies paid more in taxes than they made in profit, right? Actually, when you think about it, consumers paid for the oil companies tax expenses....

Care to show me that they paid more in taxes than on profit? Taxes are on profit, not revenues so that would be more than a 50% tax rate and since ALL uscompanies paid a total of just over $200 billion in taxes, I highly doubt that figure. Link?

And? Consumers pay ALL business tax from ALL business. However, personal income tax in this country is over $1.8 Trillion while business tax clocks in at $200 billion (on the federal level).

 

[gigapet]

Nothing but Greed and politics (the two are interchangeable here)

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: ElFenix


refineries don't make money when they're down. i'm sure BP is keeping their refineries offline just so exxon can make more money.

If you can make the "SAME" revenues with MORE profit with LESS product, then it's not a problem. You think Exxon is the only oil company with RISING profits (not just amounts, but percentages too)?

Same logic as telling Disney World that they should lower prices on their food stands or add more stands? Why when the food stand lines are around the corner with no end in sight?

Big oil has come to the realization that people will continue to pay HIGHER and HIGHER prices (even if on borrowed money - hense negative savings rate for the first time since 1934) and will do so until the market demand corrects itself.

Also, no mention of "supply and demand" when oil inventories are at an 8 year high?

Sure, world demand is up from that time but oil was 11 per barrel 8 years ago.

disney has a captive audience. if BP can't produce enough gasoline due to taking their refinery down they're not making as much profit as they could. the price increase that happens due to their refinery being down is not something that is realized by them. it's realized by their competitors.

i'm using exxon as an example, because they're the making the largest profit.

and "big oil," as you've termed it, learned in the 1970s that consumers won't continue to pay "HIGHER and HIGHER" prices, as it were. the demand for oil is very elastic. and the oil companies know this. and the shareholders know this, which is why exxon's stock has been flat for the last year.

and you keep lumping oil demand and production in with gasoline demand and production. while they are certainly related, they are not the same thing. all the oil in the world doesn't matter if you can't refine it. it'd be like being stuck on a desert island with a pallet of canned peaches but no can opener.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Baked
Some executives need to buy a new 400 ft yachts and new mansions for their mistress.

Or get $400,000,000 retirement packages (recent Exxon chairman's retirement package).

In the 12 years he helmed Exxon, share prices went up 500% and Exxon enjoyed record profits. Perhaps he earned it?

BTW, you do know that the oil companies paid more in taxes than they made in profit, right? Actually, when you think about it, consumers paid for the oil companies tax expenses....

Man, that must be tough to do. I mean selling a product people HAVE to have. WOW, that is an amazing businessman. :roll:

 

[pontifex]

2.85 here in central PA

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: giantpinkbunnyhead
I paid 2.76 for premium this week.

Last week I paid 2.34 for premium.

AND WE DRILL MOST OF THIS COUNTRY'S OIL HERE!!! (well not most but a lot)

I wish I could just drive my truck to the end of the pipeline and say "fill'er up!"

Wonder what I'll pay next week?

oil is traded on a global market. the only thing you're saving on by buying domestic oil is shipping costs.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Care to show me that they paid more in taxes than on profit? Taxes are on profit, not revenues so that would be more than a 50% tax rate and since ALL uscompanies paid a total of just over $200 billion in taxes, I highly doubt that figure. Link?

And? Consumers pay ALL business tax from ALL business. However, personal income tax in this country is over $1.8 Trillion while business tax clocks in at $200 billion (on the federal level).

income taxes are on profit, and aren't the only taxes paid on oil.

doesn't include 2005

 

[Baked]

I drove to work today w/ less than a quarter tank of gas left... and I forgot to bring a CC w/ me. I hope I don't run out of gas and be forced to fill up at the $3.25 Shell station.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: ElFenix


refineries don't make money when they're down. i'm sure BP is keeping their refineries offline just so exxon can make more money.

If you can make the "SAME" revenues with MORE profit with LESS product, then it's not a problem. You think Exxon is the only oil company with RISING profits (not just amounts, but percentages too)?

Same logic as telling Disney World that they should lower prices on their food stands or add more stands? Why when the food stand lines are around the corner with no end in sight?

Big oil has come to the realization that people will continue to pay HIGHER and HIGHER prices (even if on borrowed money - hense negative savings rate for the first time since 1934) and will do so until the market demand corrects itself.

Also, no mention of "supply and demand" when oil inventories are at an 8 year high?

Sure, world demand is up from that time but oil was 11 per barrel 8 years ago.

disney has a captive audience. if BP can't produce enough gasoline due to taking their refinery down they're not making as much profit as they could. the price increase that happens due to their refinery being down is not something that is realized by them. it's realized by their competitors.

i'm using exxon as an example, because they're the making the largest profit.

and "big oil," as you've termed it, learned in the 1970s that consumers won't continue to pay "HIGHER and HIGHER" prices, as it were. the demand for oil is very elastic. and the oil companies know this. and the shareholders know this, which is why exxon's stock has been flat for the last year.

and you keep lumping oil demand and production in with gasoline demand and production. while they are certainly related, they are not the same thing. all the oil in the world doesn't matter if you can't refine it. it'd be like being stuck on a desert island with a pallet of canned peaches but no can opener.

But when oil is at $70 per barrel, it certainly does effect the price of gasoline. Doesn't matter if you use it all, but the price does effect it. Speculation has driven the price of oil up over the last few years. Uncertainity created by a fvcked up middle east policy, 911 fears, etc. have driven speculation through the roof on oil. Oil prices certainly effect gasoline prices so they are indeed revelant in this discussion.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Engineer

Care to show me that they paid more in taxes than on profit? Taxes are on profit, not revenues so that would be more than a 50% tax rate and since ALL uscompanies paid a total of just over $200 billion in taxes, I highly doubt that figure. Link?

And? Consumers pay ALL business tax from ALL business. However, personal income tax in this country is over $1.8 Trillion while business tax clocks in at $200 billion (on the federal level).

income taxes are on profit, and aren't the only taxes paid on oil.

doesn't include 2005

But that includes taxes paid by the consumer directly for the gas, not gasoline/oil profits. The post by Queasy seemed to indicate that big oil is paying more in taxes than profit based purely on revenues. That, however is not true. Taxes are levied on the gasoline by the states regardless of profit or revenues of the oil companies. It would be there and paid by the consumers even if oil companies were losing money.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Engineer

Care to show me that they paid more in taxes than on profit? Taxes are on profit, not revenues so that would be more than a 50% tax rate and since ALL uscompanies paid a total of just over $200 billion in taxes, I highly doubt that figure. Link?

And? Consumers pay ALL business tax from ALL business. However, personal income tax in this country is over $1.8 Trillion while business tax clocks in at $200 billion (on the federal level).

income taxes are on profit, and aren't the only taxes paid on oil.

doesn't include 2005

But that includes taxes paid by the consumer directly for the gas, not gasoline/oil profits. The post by Queasy seemed to indicate that big oil is paying more in taxes than profit based purely on revenues. That, however is not true. Taxes are levied on the gasoline by the states regardless of profit or revenues of the oil companies. It would be there and paid by the consumers even if oil companies were losing money.

A tax is a tax is a tax. All tax expenses are included in the cost of products/services. I was not attempting to distinguish between corporate income taxes and other taxes.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Engineer

Care to show me that they paid more in taxes than on profit? Taxes are on profit, not revenues so that would be more than a 50% tax rate and since ALL uscompanies paid a total of just over $200 billion in taxes, I highly doubt that figure. Link?

And? Consumers pay ALL business tax from ALL business. However, personal income tax in this country is over $1.8 Trillion while business tax clocks in at $200 billion (on the federal level).

income taxes are on profit, and aren't the only taxes paid on oil.

doesn't include 2005

But that includes taxes paid by the consumer directly for the gas, not gasoline/oil profits. The post by Queasy seemed to indicate that big oil is paying more in taxes than profit based purely on revenues. That, however is not true. Taxes are levied on the gasoline by the states regardless of profit or revenues of the oil companies. It would be there and paid by the consumers even if oil companies were losing money.

A tax is a tax is a tax. All tax expenses are included in the cost of products/services. I was not attempting to distinguish between corporate income taxes and other taxes.

True. I took it as you were stating that the oil companies were paying more in taxes than they received in profits. However, it is the consumer paying more in taxes than the oil companies receives in profits.

 

[alent1234]

i read this in investor's business daily a few weeks ago, the biggest reason for high gas prices now isn't oil but ethanol. Last year's energy bill basically outlawed MTBE and required ethanol. there is a shortage of ethanol now and will be for years to come. even if oil drops, gas will probably stay high due to ethanol pricing and then you have GM's biggest energy hogs using ethanol so that doesn't help either.