What is Unix

[capeskate]

I had a debate with a friend online

He says Unix is NOT an OS
I say it is, and they used it a while ago, but not so much any more

He says
"ask on any board to list some unix os and i can promise u they will list linux"

I say
"UNIX was one of the first operating systems to be written in a high-level programming language, namely C. This meant that it could be installed on virtually any computer for which a C compiler existed"

He says
"nope, linux systems and solaris and so forth are know as unix systems"


Who is right? I dont know much, but I was pretty sure there is a "Unix OS"

 

[n0cmonkey]

Solaris is a Unix. I think some versions of HP-UX and AIX are Unixes. Unix is a standard (and trademark/copyright, or whatever). It isn't really an OS now. Although, when Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson wrote their operating system for the pdp-9(11?), it ended up being called Unix.

Unix timeline.

So, IMO, you're both right.

EDIT: Although, Linux is most definitely NOT Unix. Out of the free OSes out there now FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD come the closest.

 

[Nothinman]

He says Unix is NOT an OS

Technically it's not, it's like when someone says "Windows" what do they mean? Win2K, WinXP, Win98? Same thing when someone says Unix, what to they mean? Solaris, Tru64, AIX? These days Unix is more of an idea, a standard way of doing certain things.

EDIT: Although, Linux is most definitely NOT Unix

Depends on your perspective, while it's not derived from an original unix system it's still very much unix-like and IMO most of the differences are better.

 

[ntrights]

many commands used in Solaris unix works in Linux and BSD's and are more or less same. The syntax/commands in linux is just as much unix-like like any bsd. If you know your way in Linux (Slack, Debian, Gentoo, Redhat) you can easyly adopt to any other unix-like system IMO

 

[jhu]

it's all semantics at this point. is unix an os? well, tell me what the color green looks like.

 

[Farfrael]

Unix Is Not Unix ....
Or is it something else ?

I'd say that Unix has become more a sort of standard than a "real" OS.

 

[drag]

To me AIX, HP-UX, SCO openUnix, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, Solaris, OS X etc

These are all different Unix versions. AT&T Unix was the orgininal, but it has been modified and changed several hundred thousand times by thousands of programmers by hundreds of different companies. The idea that SCO OWNS Unix is absurd, but the name is their's and what is left of the original code base is their's. Which I suppose most of it is so completely out of date and obsolete it's not even funny. BSD version was one major classical strain, based out of Berkely University and it was used to help create the original ArpaNet and formed the basis for much of the original Internet. System V Unix was one of the last major incarnations of the original AT&T Unix and forms the basis for most of the modern big commercial Unix variants.

Linux is not Unix, very little of it is Unix. What is unix in Linux would be comming from bits and peices taken from the *BSD for various utilities and whatnot. Although the core of it is completely different from any Unix, it remains superficiously the same to the end user. This was done dilibertly because many people were familar with Unix and the Unix goals and design philosophies were good solid ideas. Plus it made Linux compatable with most Unix programs so that it was easy to integrate and use traditional unix programs with it.

Currently in the server market old-schooll style Unix from the likes of IBM, HP, and Sun have about 10-15% of the server market by volume and about 30-40% by ($) sales.

 

[Sunner]

Actually the name UNIX isn't property of SCO, but of The Open Group.

 

[KF]

Is a car an automobile or is it a Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, etc. because no cars exist; only Ford's, Chevrolets, Dodges, etc? Or maybe Ford's are not Ford's because they are Ford Taurus', Ford Focus', Ford Mustangs, etc? Or maybe Ford Taurus' don't exist, but only 2003 Taurus', 2002 Taurus', 2001 Taurus', etc. Or maybe there are no 2003 Taurus' but only yellow 2003 Taurus', white 2003 Taurus', blue 2003 Taurus', etc. Maybe when your friend and you settle the Unix question, we can apply the result to settle all these difficult questions.

As to whether there ever was an OS that was literally called "Unix", I really don't know. But I don't think there is any doubt that the early users of Unix thought they were running Unix.

I recall hearing a quote from Mark Twain on the question of whether some one else really wrote all those plays that have Shakespeare's name, which is something like this:

"Shakespeare did not write the works of Shakespeare, but another man of the same name."

There is another question about what it takes to qualify as a Unix, and there is an attempt at a non-proprietary standard called "POSIX", but the POSIX standards have different level numbers. Believe it or not, Windows NT (at least some versions) was designed to qualify as a POSIX at some lower level. I think MS still sells a package called SFU (Services For Unix) to make Windows XP (Pro?) into a POSIX.

 

[Bassyhead]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Solaris is a Unix. I think some versions of HP-UX and AIX are Unixes. Unix is a standard (and trademark/copyright, or whatever). It isn't really an OS now. Although, when Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson wrote their operating system for the pdp-9(11?), it ended up being called Unix.

Unix timeline.

So, IMO, you're both right.

EDIT: Although, Linux is most definitely NOT Unix. Out of the free OSes out there now FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD come the closest.

Awesome timeline, I havent seen that before. I also liked the computer language history, too.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Unix is an OS.
Unix is a set of standards.
Unix is a philosophy.
Unix is a trademark.

POSIX does not have anything to do with Unix. It's a set of standards for OSes and programs in general.

 

[CQuinn]

POSIX does not have anything to do with Unix.

Although, wasn't unix as an OS the basis that many examples for the POSIX standards came from?


And to play on your words a little (IIRC):

unix is an OS.

un*x is a set of standards.

Unix is a philosophy.

UNIX is a trademark.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: CQuinn

POSIX does not have anything to do with Unix.

Although, wasn't unix as an OS the basis that many examples for the POSIX standards came from?


And to play on your words a little (IIRC):

unix is an OS.

un*x is a set of standards.

Unix is a philosophy.

UNIX is a trademark.

What was the point of that?

 

[CQuinn]

The point is that (as this thread is an example), its hard to get a definite consensus on what Unix is,
partly because there are so many different ways that its users and advocates apply what they mean
when they type the word unix in various spellings.

Each of the ways I stated above gives a different (yet legitimate) meaning of the concept from
different groups.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: CQuinn
The point is that (as this thread is an example), its hard to get a definite consensus on what Unix is,
partly because there are so many different ways that its users and advocates apply what they mean
when they type the word unix in various spellings.

Each of the ways I stated above gives a different (yet legitimate) meaning of the concept from
different groups.

Except in the case of un*x, they're all the same word. IIRC, un*x was generally used when someone was unhappy with the word unix being trademarked.

Whatis.com defines it as an operating system. By it, I mean unix. Same definition for Unix, and UNIX. un*x isn't defined.

The variations on the capitalization of the letters mean nothing. Replacing random letters with asterisks is just kind of dumb.

And I was wrong about POSIX, it originated with the IEEE.

 

[drag]

Sometimes I use Unix vs unix when talking specificly about the copyrighted Unix vs the Unix that exists in reality (the combined efforts of BSD hackers and coporate-sponsored programmers.).

But I warn people about it beforehand, kinda like legal papers were they defined the terms being used at the beginning.

Otherwise I use *nix is to refer to all Unix-style OSes in general (OS X, the BSDs, Linux distros, System-V descendants, etc etc)

In reality Unix is Unix is Unix is Unix, certian legal difficulties notwithstanding.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: drag
Sometimes I use Unix vs unix when talking specificly about the copyrighted Unix vs the Unix that exists in reality (the combined efforts of BSD hackers and coporate-sponsored programmers.).

But I warn people about it beforehand, kinda like legal papers were they defined the terms being used at the beginning.

Otherwise I use *nix is to refer to all Unix-style OSes in general (OS X, the BSDs, Linux distros, System-V descendants, etc etc)

In reality Unix is Unix is Unix is Unix, certian legal difficulties notwithstanding.

I hate the "term" *nix. I'll use it to include everything though, but I prefer (and more often use) the term unix-like. Unless I am talking about a particular Unix, like Solaris, and then it's just Unix. And I'll change the capitalization randomly (like I sometimes do with SuSE and NeXT) without basis in what I am talking about.

 

[spyordie007]

Those arent klenex they are tissues and you arent eating cheerios.

Wait a min.; it's late and I'm not even sure where I was going with this. The funny thing is that just about everything that has been posted is correct as far as I'm concered.

tomatoes/potatoes; let's call the whole thing off.

-Spy

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: spyordie007
Those arent klenex they are tissues and you arent eating cheerios.

Wait a min.; it's late and I'm not even sure where I was going with this. The funny thing is that just about everything that has been posted is correct as far as I'm concered.

tomatoes/potatoes; let's call the whole thing off.

-Spy

Well it's a bit more like a guy in a company came out with a product called "tissue paper" then a bunch of companies and independant people started making their own "tissue paper" products and then the original company all of a sudden turned "tissue paper" into a trademark and then threatened to sue everyone who had the term "tissue paper" on their boxes.

 

[dderolph]

Lot of uninformed discussion here. UNIX IS AN OS. See:
UNIX Tutorial for Beginners and
UNIXhelp for users

 

[Nothinman]

Lot of uninformed discussion here. UNIX IS AN OS. See:

UNIX WAS an OS, but if you feel otherwise how about telling me where I can get a copy?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Lot of uninformed discussion here. UNIX IS AN OS. See:

UNIX WAS an OS, but if you feel otherwise how about telling me where I can get a copy?

Just because it isn't available to the public, doesn't mean it doesn't still exist

 

[Nothinman]

Just because it isn't available to the public, doesn't mean it doesn't still exist

I know, but the links he showed didn't say anything and the screenshots were Gnome which runs on just about everything.

 

[dderolph]

IS. Office Depot Chooses Sun Microsystems as Preferred Unix Vendor. Also, SUN MICROSYSTEMS LEADS AS SOUTH AFRICAN UNIX VENDOR Note the first sentence in this second link: "Sun Microsystems SA has emerged as the country's largest Unix systems vendor, overtaking both IBM and HP in this growing market sector." It mentions IBM and HP as other UNIX vendors.

 

[Nothinman]

But Sun sells Solaris, not UNIX...