What is too much power for a daily driver?

[FearoftheNight]

Hey guys. Been driving around have been asking myself something recently. At what point is too much power for a daily driver. I have a gti with 200 whp and I feel like I'm already about to blow past 80 on every highway... How do people with faster cars resist the urge to go to town??

 

[fstime]

Depends on how much the car weighs, but a 200HP GTI is just the right amount of power for that car.

High performance cars such as M3's and M5's etc are more status symbols than anything. Hell, even the majority of Corvettes (the iconic American sports car) are sold with automatics.

At the end of the day, who wants to take a $100,000 M5 to the track. I doubt many would want to risk that and 99% of owners don't.

Speed limits here are 60 MPH, so that gives me 3.5 seconds to enjoy it on the on-ramp to work everyday or look like a douche guning it stop light to stop light not even getting out of second gear. One ticket over 85 and it's a reckless driving ticket for 25 over the limit. And let me tell you, even at a 100 mph, a German sedan feels like it's doing 45 solid and stable, and it doesn't take much at all to get there.

To me, if you are a true driving enthusiast, you buy something like a Lotus Exige purely for the track, or a poor mans track car such as a Mazda MX-5. The amount of money you will spend for these sports cars is just not worth it and will get old in around 6 months give or take.

 

[manimal]

For me about 500 at the wheel is perfect for a DD. Around 800HP most cars starts to be way to peaky or laggy. Lots of cars are capable of 400-500 at the wheel and still be responsive and fun.

When it comes to controlling your speed well.....high hp cars can be a handful, just today I hit a spot of melting snow on an onramp and well things got a bit sideways. No biggie for me but some noob would have probably died

 

[tracerbullet]

I don't know if there's a too much #, maybe it's dependent on your ability to restrain yourself. There's certainly a point of power being sufficient, I guess anything more could be excessive since it tends to cut into mileage.

Agreed a GTI is well balanced. I'm betting the FRS/BRZ, for DD usage anyhow as we are talking here, is also sufficient. Talking only about fun cars of course, not Camry's. My Eclipse felt just a little underpowered, 200/200 for about 3250 pounds or so. My 135i is beyond fun, but certainly more than I need to get to work (roughly 300/300 for the same weight). Is it too much? Probably, it's more than necessary.

As far as restraining it, dunno, I guess age / maturity? Not saying anyone else isn't mature. I do let it rip, but only if I'm the only one in the car, only if I'm not around other cars (or walkers or bikers), only if the conditions are clear. Even then I'm not talking 150mph, just say a blast from a streetlight to 50 or so in a 40 zone, or a highway on-ramp up to maybe 70-80ish.

fstime's right about the reckless ticket, that factors into it where the fun caps off.

 

[FearoftheNight]

Tell me more about your 135. Driving experience, gas, insurance costs.. Sometimes I really wish I got the 13th used instead of the gti new...

 

[tracerbullet]

I absolutely love it. I test drove lot of cars before I got it, some of the more noteworthy were: GTI (liked it a lot, but wanted more performance), a Volvo C30 (same feelings), a WRX (stock it wasn't any better than say a GTI but felt much cheaper, I was disappointed), an Evo X (holy crap that was fun, the wait for boost seemed like forever but the handling was insane, this was my #3), a 370Z (gorgeous sexy car, performance obviously good, but even after a couple test drives I couldn't shake the feeling that I couldn't see out of it and that it was driving me instead of the other way around, but I'd still say it was #2).

Those were all new. Convinced to try a BMW (I kept thinking - I'm not one of *those* assholes), I finally caved in and figured I'd give it a shot. Looked at used for these, because of the price. 3 series was very nice, but I wanted something smaller. Found a 128i, and was immediately at home. Something about the positions of the seat, steering wheel, shifter, pedals, whatever I felt at home. And LOL it had glass all around, I could see out of it. I was immediately ready to have fun with it like I'd been driving it forever. Ended up getting a 1yr old used 135i, went that route over the 128i really just to get the turbo I guess.

Anyhow after 1.5yrs it's been bullet proof so far, no trouble at all. I love it, love it, love it. It's got a very tactile driving feel but it doesn't tire you out. M3 suspension parts and other items (rear subframe bushings are popular upgrades) trasnfer over and only make it better. It's small and funky and to many people it's even ugly. There's hardly any 1-ers around, too, even living in a metro I see one a month maybe. All things that I love.

According to the car itself, I average 22mpg, and that's in stop & go traffic almost exclusively so not too bad. Insurance is about 105 a month, I'm 42 with a clean record for reference.

I won't piss on the GTI, it's an awesome car. But yeah, for me, the 135i was better in pretty much every way. If you want a different car, it's certainly worth looking at one.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

I went from a GTI to a 335i actually, haha.

Love every minute of driving this thing.

 

[Eureka]

It's too much power when you need to be careful going from a start. Anything less than that you can always drive.

 

[PCMarine]

I've got a stripper e90 328i 6MT and I think the power (230 HP) is about right for the street. The short gearing allows me to run through 1st and 2nd gears and still be around 50-60 MPH aka not risking jail time. Would I like the twin turbos from the 335i? Sure, but it would probably just lead to more expense and trouble.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Speed limits here are 60 MPH, so that gives me 3.5 seconds to enjoy it on the on-ramp to work everyday or look like a douche gunning it stop light to stop light not even getting out of second gear. One ticket over 85 and it's a reckless driving ticket for 25 over the limit. And let me tell you, even at a 100 mph, a German sedan feels like it's doing 45 solid and stable, and it doesn't take much at all to get there.

Peter Egan put it best:

...fast cars and motorcycles are like the operatic tenors of the road. Pavarotti and Domingo don't have to hit a high C every time they open their mouths, but it's nice to know they can. The point is, if you are able to sing "Nessun dorma" competently as La Scala, it probably means you can also sing "I Got You, Babe" in the shower with almost no effort at all.

Likewise, a bike that can go 176 on a dry lake bed in California can also be counted upon to pass a gravel truck or a motorhome at normal highway speeds without too much suspense. Also, it just feels good when you twist that grip, even at 35 mph.

The absolutely effortless feeling of a car with well over 200 horsepower is incredible, even when all you're doing is driving at 2/10s.

And even if you're only really getting into it for a few seconds on an on-ramp, those few seconds are more than worth it.

ZV

 

[phucheneh]

Peter Egan put it best:



The absolutely effortless feeling of a car with well over 200 horsepower is incredible, even when all you're doing is driving at 2/10s.

And even if you're only really getting into it for a few seconds on an on-ramp, those few seconds are more than worth it.

ZV

It's best to not be able to wipe out at quarter throttle if you can help it, though.

Most powerful factory cars (at least what I've driven, so 'not supercars') seem to err on the side of caution, thankfully. I agree with not needing to use the power all the time, obviously; some things just make it easier than other to use it accidentally, which can be as dangerous as anything.

edit: as far as daily driver power, I think the GTI's in the low 200's are plenty for a FWD. The bigger cars with V6's around 300 are a bit much; it's just not needed, even if the car does weigh little more than most FWD's.

In a RWD, I like the Nissan VQ cars. ~300hp V6 with a fairly high power band is hard for a decent driver to have an 'accident' in but keeps plenty of reserve for accelerating at cruising speeds. 400+ in a V8 (read: more torque) starts to get unusable with normal tires and a 'standard' RWD layout (think Camaro, not Corvette).

It's all about when the power (and torque) actually come in, and how suddenly.

 

[SyndromeOCZ]

1200 lb-ft. Still want more power.. Though the truck does weight 8k pounds. It can still rip them loose on pavement at over 30mph.

 

[FearoftheNight]

What about the idea that it's better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow?

 

[jlee]

It's best to not be able to wipe out at quarter throttle if you can help it, though.

Most powerful factory cars (at least what I've driven, so 'not supercars') seem to err on the side of caution, thankfully. I agree with not needing to use the power all the time, obviously; some things just make it easier than other to use it accidentally, which can be as dangerous as anything.

edit: as far as daily driver power, I think the GTI's in the low 200's are plenty for a FWD. The bigger cars with V6's around 300 are a bit much; it's just not needed, even if the car does weigh little more than most FWD's.

In a RWD, I like the Nissan VQ cars. ~300hp V6 with a fairly high power band is hard for a decent driver to have an 'accident' in but keeps plenty of reserve for accelerating at cruising speeds. 400+ in a V8 (read: more torque) starts to get unusable with normal tires and a 'standard' RWD layout (think Camaro, not Corvette).

It's all about when the power (and torque) actually come in, and how suddenly.

Nonsense. You just need moar tire. :awe:

 

[_Rick_]

Nonsense. You just need moar tire. :awe:

Have fun in the rain :awe:

 

[sgrinavi]

I went from a Ridgeline to a tuned C6 with bolt-ons to a boosted 135i -

Ridgeline was the worst of all worlds, slow, uncomfortable, doesn't really handle that well and couldn't haul much. I couldn't stand not having the power to pass.

C6 is fast, but a bit annoying - loud and brash, not all that comfortable and you get sick of every kid in a 200 HP GTI wanting to race ;-)

135i is a great balance of comfort and performance. Especially once you boost it. Of the dozens of cars and trucks that I've owned/driven it is far and away my favorite to date.

What about the idea that it's better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow?

That's on the track - more challenging and hones your skills - also partially to do with parts costs and availability.

 

[nerp]

For a DD? I'm happy with 300 under my hood. It means the car is quick, I'm never saying "c'mon, c'mon" and I never have to peg it to the floor just to pass a car uphill like I did in my Yaris or my Golf. Would I like more? I guess, but it is a daily driver and most of the time I'm cruising on the highway close to the speed limit and my daughter is in the back of the car. When my girl is in college I'll just get an SRT Viper or something.

 

[Murloc]

I never drove real powerful cars but I did drive underpowered cars and correctly powered non-luxury cars.
When in heavy traffic on highways it's nice to be able to get into a lane with cars going fast and with small spaces even if you don't have the space to accelerate beforehand. It's also nice to find a hole in a jammed lane when on a parallel lane and be able to jump in it before it closes. Windows of opportunity are easier to exploit.
This happens mainly in Italy because they have bad road planning and bigger cities, here if you follow the law you have no choice. There you have chaotic intersections with multiple traffic lights, trams, jams and multiple lanes, there is much more creativity and perception involved in driving, and fast accelerations help get in front of big trucks, avoid cars parked on the right lane (illegally) etc..
Plus in Italy they have toll booths on highways (130 km/h) and it's nice to get out and get in front of everybody before the lanes become 2-3 again (there are like 15 booths).
That's where you can accelerate from 0 to 130 km/h (80 mph) legally, if there isn't too much traffic.

The issue with not noticing how fast you're going is a problem when you're not used to the car and you don't have a good visual speed perception I guess. I always watch the speedometer to be on the safe side.

 

[ProchargeMe]

Too.. much.. power...?

 

[kitatech]

To answer the question from the other end...if you "run out of room" at the maximum end of the rpm/torque range, i.e. WOT, on a DD, you need MORE power...that's just too much stress on the engine...and in some of the examples given, too stressful behind the wheel.

Too MUCH power would in my mind be if your engine runs inefficiently, running too much to the LOW end of the RPM/torque range, nearly lugging...that may lead to carbon build-up, and worse...but that's as much to do with HOW the engine is run as it relates to how much power it has....nice thing about a stick is that I feel I have more control over where I want to be on the torque curve.

 

[Doppel]

I have a car that does 0-60 in the low 6's and it is overpowered for public roads. I enjoy driving it (far too much) but am amazed I've yet to get a ticket. It's very close to impossible to floor it anywhere without breaking a law. If I do it at the lights I could get a display of speed ticket. If I do it on the highway I'm over the limit in no time. It's a cruel irony that as cars get faster the traffic is heavier and traffic enforcement continues to grow.

I'd like a V8, but you see a guy in a Mustang GT and you're looking at a guy who is either driving it entirely for show or who is lucky he's not yet lost his license. It is literally impossible to exercise any of these cars anywhere close to their potential on the roads without breaking the law. And handling? It's difficult to take a minivan to its handling limits on a public road without going too fast. The only exception would be turning onto a road; there are no "twisties" on any road I've seen in recent memory at which a minivan is incapable of going at the speed limit and taking every corner.

I'm deliberately downgrading power next time because I feel that after all the years of driving I've been pushing my luck on no moving violations yet.

 

[Jumpem]

I would say around 400hp.

Though 150hp is enough for almost anyone. Most people think they need more power than they really do. All of the references to "passing power" also confuse me as it is against the law to exceed the speed limit when passing anyway.

 

[Naeeldar]

I would say around 400hp.

Though 150hp is enough for almost anyone. Most people think they need more power than they really do. All of the references to "passing power" also confuse me as it is against the law to exceed the speed limit when passing anyway.

Generally people don't drive the speed limit. I remember a university around here took 3 cars and drove the speed limit on the turnpike for 75 miles side by side during rush hour. It basically destroyed traffic patterns that day. Cops don't even enforce the regular speed limits during rush hour on major Highways.

 

[ThatsABigOne]

210 bhp.

 

[Mutilator]

When I installed the Cobb AP tune on my 135i I did briefly feel that the extra HP/TQ was crossing the line for too much for a daily driver.
That feeling didn't last long because I realized it wasn't too much power, just too little rear tire.

But I think you can tell from this thread, the real answer is it depends on the vehicle in question. A lot of variables to consider.