What is the smallest calculation that a computer can make and what is it called
- Thread starter BIGGDOG
- Start date
a LOAD op would probably be the simplest for the CPU.
However when strictly limited to calculations it would be the "ADD" op.
However when strictly limited to calculations it would be the "ADD" op.
I am just trying to say what is the term for the first calculation the computer makes when it decides between a 1 and a 0. What is that term for that first decision.
What do you mean "decides" between a 1 and a 0? When computers do arithmetic, they don't care about 1s or 0s; they apply the same logic.
in other words a computer asks itself a million times a second "or there abouts", is it a yes or is it a no?
It only does that with "cmp" commands or similar commands. The processor doesn't care whether something's a 1 or 0, except in a few cases (such as when dealing with flags, etc). Usually the processor just takes bits in, performs arithmetic, and spits bits out. The processor only determines the status of a bit when the code executes a conditional command (like a jump-if command)
Ok. The most crude computer ever built had to start with a simple opening and closing of a circuit. What is that term for the simple opening and closing of the circuit.
what is your background in the area? that would help us give better replies.
i see Sigurd just answered while I was replying
Anyway, as an example of "not caring", lets look at adding two one-bit numbers (a, b). you get 2 bits for the answer (cd). c would equal a AND b. to test for AND, the processor doesn't really look at the values, you just have 2 transistors in series. transistors allow current to flow when you apply a voltage to the gate ("input"). so, if both gates have a high voltage on them, current can flow, so c is set to 1, otherwise current can't flow, c becomes 0. to find d, you would have a more complicated set of logic ((a NAND b) AND (a OR b)).
So I guess to answer your question... it depends on whether you consider a transistor's action to be "asking". Does an AND gate or an OR gate ask "are my inputs yes/no"? once again, that's for you to decide.
edit: you have another question, so i'll try to answer that.
the "opening and closing" as you put it is done by a transistor... I guess you would call it "switching". the transistor acts like a switch that has a gremlin controlling it. if there is a voltage at the switch, it turns the switch on. no voltage, it turns the switch off (or the opposite - there are two types).
i see Sigurd just answered while I was replying
Anyway, as an example of "not caring", lets look at adding two one-bit numbers (a, b). you get 2 bits for the answer (cd). c would equal a AND b. to test for AND, the processor doesn't really look at the values, you just have 2 transistors in series. transistors allow current to flow when you apply a voltage to the gate ("input"). so, if both gates have a high voltage on them, current can flow, so c is set to 1, otherwise current can't flow, c becomes 0. to find d, you would have a more complicated set of logic ((a NAND b) AND (a OR b)).
So I guess to answer your question... it depends on whether you consider a transistor's action to be "asking". Does an AND gate or an OR gate ask "are my inputs yes/no"? once again, that's for you to decide.
edit: you have another question, so i'll try to answer that.
the "opening and closing" as you put it is done by a transistor... I guess you would call it "switching". the transistor acts like a switch that has a gremlin controlling it. if there is a voltage at the switch, it turns the switch on. no voltage, it turns the switch off (or the opposite - there are two types).
I'm confused as to what you mean by "opening" and "closing" of a circuit. An open circuit doesn't work, because it doesn't conduct electricity. A closed circuit is just a circuit...
The simplest computers did this: you could apply a voltage here, and a voltage there, and you'd get a voltage out. The aforementioned voltages would be something like +5 V (for a 1) or 0 V (for a 0). The circuit didn't "know" whether you were inputting voltage or not, it just used a few transistors which automatically conduct/switch one way or another depending. The voltage you got out would be the result of the logical operation of the crude computer. Eventually, you could chain a bunch of these together and represent numbers as a series of voltages (binary). The voltages you would get out would be the result of the arithmetic opration. There's no special term I know for this that I haven't already mentioned.
The simplest computers did this: you could apply a voltage here, and a voltage there, and you'd get a voltage out. The aforementioned voltages would be something like +5 V (for a 1) or 0 V (for a 0). The circuit didn't "know" whether you were inputting voltage or not, it just used a few transistors which automatically conduct/switch one way or another depending. The voltage you got out would be the result of the logical operation of the crude computer. Eventually, you could chain a bunch of these together and represent numbers as a series of voltages (binary). The voltages you would get out would be the result of the arithmetic opration. There's no special term I know for this that I haven't already mentioned.
Thank you. I was trying to find out if there was a term for exactly what you described (Sigurd). I think I know that if there is a term we might have forgotten it or it just does not exist.
(flot).. I do not know that is why I am asking.
(flot).. I do not know that is why I am asking.
one thing is the "circuts" can only operate the way it was designed.
hence and or nor nand gates.
your 1 or 0 is determined by the voltage applied or not applied.
BUT even the simplest transistor based computer, has many,many transistors.
alone these transistors cant DO anything except open or close or whatever.
it is the code/software that makes it all work
it doesnt matter if this code or software had beeen designed into the ic or if it is from an external source that tells the ic what to do.
the smallest operation that the ic/cpu or whatever you have doing the work IS a 1 or a 0 BUT these are completely meaningless if there is nothing to follow.it requiers many 1's and 0's or combinations there of to accomplish anything at all.
yes there are functions and info that is passed along to combine with more info to get an end result.
but i guess if you are looking at this philisoficaly then it doesnt realy matter.
our brain is carbon based but it IS a computer, a verry verry powerful one but a computer none the less.
compairing with a cpu/ic the brain cant function without its software anymore than a computer can.
WE are the software. the electrical impulses that drive an organtic brain are the same that drive the silicon ic/cpu(although there is a lot less , or smaller amount of electricity in the brain)if WE(the sole or whatever)leave out body then our computer ceces to function.if the electrical curent in the brain is halted then WE cese to function, at least temporaraly untill the electrical activity is restored of the (if the damage of stoping it isnt to bad)
if you take a person that has amniseia it like having a computer with embeded windows, its a computer but it doesnt DO anything without the programs.
take a person with severe brain damage. its the same thing as a computer turned on but with no os no nothing. it still doesnt do anything.
even univac had to have it's tubes "programed" in a certain fasion to DO anything.
so this is my 2 cents worth. there is NO "thought" nor does the computer "know" when or how to DO anything.even the smalest "calculation" isnt done by its self because it requiers so much more, for anything noticealbe on our end of it.
it requiers the code/software to accomplish any "thought" or action.
and even then it is still a PROGRAMED reaction. small large or in betwene I think is inconsequencial.
im only 30, but ive been studying computers among other things(besides spelling) most of my life and i have never heard a term for the smallest amount of info that a computer "thinks"or the smallest calculation.except what has already been descused in this thered.
hence and or nor nand gates.
your 1 or 0 is determined by the voltage applied or not applied.
BUT even the simplest transistor based computer, has many,many transistors.
alone these transistors cant DO anything except open or close or whatever.
it is the code/software that makes it all work
it doesnt matter if this code or software had beeen designed into the ic or if it is from an external source that tells the ic what to do.
the smallest operation that the ic/cpu or whatever you have doing the work IS a 1 or a 0 BUT these are completely meaningless if there is nothing to follow.it requiers many 1's and 0's or combinations there of to accomplish anything at all.
yes there are functions and info that is passed along to combine with more info to get an end result.
but i guess if you are looking at this philisoficaly then it doesnt realy matter.
our brain is carbon based but it IS a computer, a verry verry powerful one but a computer none the less.
compairing with a cpu/ic the brain cant function without its software anymore than a computer can.
WE are the software. the electrical impulses that drive an organtic brain are the same that drive the silicon ic/cpu(although there is a lot less , or smaller amount of electricity in the brain)if WE(the sole or whatever)leave out body then our computer ceces to function.if the electrical curent in the brain is halted then WE cese to function, at least temporaraly untill the electrical activity is restored of the (if the damage of stoping it isnt to bad)
if you take a person that has amniseia it like having a computer with embeded windows, its a computer but it doesnt DO anything without the programs.
take a person with severe brain damage. its the same thing as a computer turned on but with no os no nothing. it still doesnt do anything.
even univac had to have it's tubes "programed" in a certain fasion to DO anything.
so this is my 2 cents worth. there is NO "thought" nor does the computer "know" when or how to DO anything.even the smalest "calculation" isnt done by its self because it requiers so much more, for anything noticealbe on our end of it.
it requiers the code/software to accomplish any "thought" or action.
and even then it is still a PROGRAMED reaction. small large or in betwene I think is inconsequencial.
im only 30, but ive been studying computers among other things(besides spelling) most of my life and i have never heard a term for the smallest amount of info that a computer "thinks"or the smallest calculation.except what has already been descused in this thered.
a simple open, close
flip,flop,
1 or 0
voltage applied or voltage not applied
these are all the smallest thing any ic can do
but it still cant do even that without an instruction from the code/software.
flip,flop,
1 or 0
voltage applied or voltage not applied
these are all the smallest thing any ic can do
but it still cant do even that without an instruction from the code/software.
As you state that the reason for the question is "Philosophical", the answer according to
the author Douglas Adams in his book "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" is..... 42
Happy New Year
the author Douglas Adams in his book "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" is..... 42
Happy New Year
About adding two numbers, i read through this thread ans i guess i am not to bright about this. how is it done? i read "CTho9305"'s post many times and i cant get it....
Thankz
Thankz
Evadman
Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 30,990
- 5
- 81
If you get realy basic, you end up with a half adder. ( way way way oversimplified, so don't shoot me )
Say you have a "register" ( that is where the CPU stores the binary #'s that it is going to do the "operation" on. ) assume you want to add 2 numbers together. Lets say 10 and 8. Lets further assume this is a simple 8 bit address for simplicity.
First the CPU will get the #'s in binary form. 10 = 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 and 8 = 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Then the CPU will "add" the binary 1's and 0's together. ( forgive below, text is always hard to draw in, and I am only going to show the first 5 bits, as the rest do not matter. )
0 1 0 1 0
0 0 0 1 0 +
-------------
If the CPU shows 2 0's being added together, that equals a 0 in the sum ( totals ) line. If it sees a 0 and a 1, then that = 1. If it sees a 1 and a 1, then it will make that a 0, and add a 1 to the next line.
So the answer we get for the above is:
0 1 0 1 0
0 0 0 1 0+
-------------
0 1 0 0 1 = 18 ( 2 + 16 )
Does that kind of help? That operation would be called a "cycle" or such.
Since you seem to be asking this as a non-computer person, I will show you how the "bits" are counted so the above makes more sence. AKA how to turn a # into a binary #.
The 0's and 1's are in a horizontal row above. That means that the 0 ( or 1 ) farthest to the left, counts as the numeral 1. the next is a 2. after that a 4, then an 8, 16 yada yada. see below
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 <---- 8 bits. every 0 that turns into a 1 gets counted as it's decimal equivalent.
1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 <------ Sorry, but the forum automaticly deletes extra spaces.
So if the first and last 0's in the above 8 bits are 1's then we would get 1+128=129. If they are all ones, you would get 255, but including "0" we get the magicial # of 256.
Does that help more?
( Yes I know this is a HUGE simplication of what a CPU does, but I was trying to get it to the most basic so we can help Bigdog. )]
<edit>
<< What is the smallest calculation that a computer can make and what is it called >>
That above is the smallist calculation. The smallest unit ( part ) in a CPU is the transistor, and they work exactly as was described above, but that is not a calculation. A calculation is what is in my post above. In that respect the smallest calculation would be called a "Cycle" if I am understanding you correctly. I think the rest of these guys have been in HT too long, and it is getting to them I on the otherhand, am used to working with ( forgive the term ) idiots at Home Depot. Who have no clue that a 2 x 4 is not actually 2 inches by 4 inches. I have a little more experence breaking down the easy answers into "Super Easy" digestiable chucnks that that same idiot can understand.
And no, I do not think you are an idiot. The guy who had never heard of a "shovel" was an idiot. ( yes, he asked me what is used to dig a hole in his yard, and when I said " A Shovel" he looked at me like I was speaking another language )
Say you have a "register" ( that is where the CPU stores the binary #'s that it is going to do the "operation" on. ) assume you want to add 2 numbers together. Lets say 10 and 8. Lets further assume this is a simple 8 bit address for simplicity.
First the CPU will get the #'s in binary form. 10 = 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 and 8 = 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Then the CPU will "add" the binary 1's and 0's together. ( forgive below, text is always hard to draw in, and I am only going to show the first 5 bits, as the rest do not matter. )
0 1 0 1 0
0 0 0 1 0 +
-------------
If the CPU shows 2 0's being added together, that equals a 0 in the sum ( totals ) line. If it sees a 0 and a 1, then that = 1. If it sees a 1 and a 1, then it will make that a 0, and add a 1 to the next line.
So the answer we get for the above is:
0 1 0 1 0
0 0 0 1 0+
-------------
0 1 0 0 1 = 18 ( 2 + 16 )
Does that kind of help? That operation would be called a "cycle" or such.
Since you seem to be asking this as a non-computer person, I will show you how the "bits" are counted so the above makes more sence. AKA how to turn a # into a binary #.
The 0's and 1's are in a horizontal row above. That means that the 0 ( or 1 ) farthest to the left, counts as the numeral 1. the next is a 2. after that a 4, then an 8, 16 yada yada. see below
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 <---- 8 bits. every 0 that turns into a 1 gets counted as it's decimal equivalent.
1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 <------ Sorry, but the forum automaticly deletes extra spaces.
So if the first and last 0's in the above 8 bits are 1's then we would get 1+128=129. If they are all ones, you would get 255, but including "0" we get the magicial # of 256.
Does that help more?
( Yes I know this is a HUGE simplication of what a CPU does, but I was trying to get it to the most basic so we can help Bigdog. )]
<edit>
<< What is the smallest calculation that a computer can make and what is it called >>
That above is the smallist calculation. The smallest unit ( part ) in a CPU is the transistor, and they work exactly as was described above, but that is not a calculation. A calculation is what is in my post above. In that respect the smallest calculation would be called a "Cycle" if I am understanding you correctly. I think the rest of these guys have been in HT too long, and it is getting to them
I on the otherhand, am used to working with ( forgive the term ) idiots at Home Depot. Who have no clue that a 2 x 4 is not actually 2 inches by 4 inches. I have a little more experence breaking down the easy answers into "Super Easy" digestiable chucnks that that same idiot can understand.And no, I do not think you are an idiot. The guy who had never heard of a "shovel" was an idiot. ( yes, he asked me what is used to dig a hole in his yard, and when I said " A Shovel" he looked at me like I was speaking another language
)<< Hay that was good. i got it. (i'll shoot you anyway)
Thankz >>
hehe. its somtimes hard writing good posts as evadman did
The smallest operation on a bit is the NOT operation. If the bit is 0, then NOT 0 is 1. If the bit is 1, then NOT 1 is 0. I don't know if this would be called a calculation though...
But, more directly to your question: a computer stores state (0's and 1's are stored somewhere that they can be read later) and then does operations on them. All a computer does is manipulate patterns. CS people have attached certain meanings to certain patterns, ie a certain sequence of 0's and 1's mean one number, a different sequence means a different number. Then, EE people have designed circuits that manipulate these patterns properly so that when they're done manipulating, the resulting pattern means something interesting, ie a multiplier. 2 * 3 = 6. In binary, two is 010 and three is 110 and six is 011. So, EE people design circuits that, when given 010 and 110 for input, will give 011 as output. An adder will be a circuit that, when given 010 and 110 for input, will give 101 (5) as output. Maybe there's some other operation, like concatenation (2 CAT 3 = 23) that will give a different pattern (010110). The trick is figuring out which manipulations are interesting, figuring out what meanings to attach to each pattern, then creating the circuit so that the manipulation is done really fast.
Someone else will have to explain transistor physics, but it's more or less a water faucet for voltage. If the switch is on (faucet open) the voltage at the input passes thru to the output (water flows out the spout). If the switch is off, the voltage doesn't pass. So depending on how you define "deciding" a transistor does or doesn't make a decision.
But, more directly to your question: a computer stores state (0's and 1's are stored somewhere that they can be read later) and then does operations on them. All a computer does is manipulate patterns. CS people have attached certain meanings to certain patterns, ie a certain sequence of 0's and 1's mean one number, a different sequence means a different number. Then, EE people have designed circuits that manipulate these patterns properly so that when they're done manipulating, the resulting pattern means something interesting, ie a multiplier. 2 * 3 = 6. In binary, two is 010 and three is 110 and six is 011. So, EE people design circuits that, when given 010 and 110 for input, will give 011 as output. An adder will be a circuit that, when given 010 and 110 for input, will give 101 (5) as output. Maybe there's some other operation, like concatenation (2 CAT 3 = 23) that will give a different pattern (010110). The trick is figuring out which manipulations are interesting, figuring out what meanings to attach to each pattern, then creating the circuit so that the manipulation is done really fast.
Someone else will have to explain transistor physics, but it's more or less a water faucet for voltage. If the switch is on (faucet open) the voltage at the input passes thru to the output (water flows out the spout). If the switch is off, the voltage doesn't pass. So depending on how you define "deciding" a transistor does or doesn't make a decision
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