What is the skinny on Hyundai?

[Midwayman]

Why did they downgrade the engine in the 2015 Sonata to just 245 hp from the old car's 274 hp? The MPG numbers are basically the same. That can't look good from an advertising point of view, considering competitors like the Accord and Camry are packing V6s with 270+ hp AND better MPG.

Warranty issues? That would be a solid reason to drop the boost. That wouldn't substantially affect the mpg numbers.

 

[LTC8K6]

Why did they downgrade the engine in the 2015 Sonata to just 245 hp from the old car's 274 hp? The MPG numbers are basically the same. That can't look good from an advertising point of view, considering competitors like the Accord and Camry are packing V6s with 270+ hp AND better MPG.

Perhaps it never had 274hp and the new number is more accurate?

 

[996GT2]

Perhaps it never had 274hp and the new number is more accurate?

Dyno runs of the old engine showed that it did actually make 274hp at the crank. This new one is rated for 30 less hp, and based on the sluggish (~8.0 sec) 0-60 numbers from multiple reviews, it would seem like they did actually detune the new 2.0 turbo engine quite a bit.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2011-hyundai-sonata-20t-dyno-tested.html

I mean, I can understand de-tuning the new engine for warranty reasons, but it just looks really, really bad when you compare the Sonata to its V6 competitors which are packing considerably more hp. I feel like they should have just dropped the de-tuned 2.0T engine altogether and gone with a V6 that could reliably make ~270hp. The new Sonata 2.0T somehow has a slower 0-60 time than a 4-cylinder Accord or Mazda6, despite having a turbo.

Not too surprisingly then, the Sonata Sport 2.0T can't be expected to win many drag races against these competitors. We measured a 0-to-60 time of 8.0 seconds, which trailed even the Passat TSI Sport by 0.2 second. The Regal and Malibu did this sprint in 6.1 and 6.3 seconds and the Optima needed 7.2 seconds. Despite the added friction of all-wheel drive, the Fusion was 1.2 seconds quicker at 6.8 seconds. Even naturally aspirated competitors such as the Honda Accord Sport and Mazda6 squeak past the Sonata Sport 2.0T with a half-second and two-tenths to spare, respectively.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1410_2015_hyundai_sonata_sport_20t_first_test/

 

[darkswordsman17]

I'm guessing they came up with a new tune to be able to provide the MPG numbers since people buying were more interested in that then the 25-30hp. It might also be a case of, under most conditions it makes 245, but when it builds boost it makes more. Hard to say.

I've actually thought the companies should be doing something like that anyway, have a pass button or something which will tell the engine to build up some boost so that when you put your foot down to actually pass you'll have it already there and can make the pass easier.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I'm also pretty shocked at how expensive Hyundais have gotten. They used to be a "value" brand compared to Honda/Toyota.

A 2015 Sonata Sport 2.0T with the 245HP turbo engine starts at $28,575. That's only $2k less than a better-equipped Accord EX-L V6 with 278HP. Considering that the Accord EX-L V6 is a little bit better equipped than a Sonata Sport, the real price difference is pretty much negligible.

How old is the Accord? The new Sonata is quite a bit of a change compared to the previous one, so it might be they're looking for a premium for a newer car, whereas Honda having an older car is offering better deal. And then when they bring out a new one there will be a bigger price premium. Just saying as I haven't been keeping up on the Accord.

But that's also the whole point of Hyundai improving their cars, build up its reputation which will enable them to charge similar money as other brands.

 

[996GT2]

I'm guessing they came up with a new tune to be able to provide the MPG numbers since people buying were more interested in that then the 25-30hp. It might also be a case of, under most conditions it makes 245, but when it builds boost it makes more. Hard to say.

I've actually thought the companies should be doing something like that anyway, have a pass button or something which will tell the engine to build up some boost so that when you put your foot down to actually pass you'll have it already there and can make the pass easier.

It just seems kind of pointless to even have a turbo in the car when it only manages a 8.0 second 0-60 time despite the 245hp turbo motor. The base I-4s from all of the other major competitors are faster than that, not to mention they get much better mileage than the turbo engine in the Sonata.

Ironically, the fastest Sonata is now the "Eco" model with the 1.6 turbo engine. How Hyundai only manages an 8.0 second 0-60 time from their top of the line 2.0T model is beyond me. IIRC the old 274hp sonata 2.0T did 0-60 in 6.0 seconds.

when the Vbox data was brought in for analysis, the same results appeared run after run. The 178-hp Eco was consistently faster than the 245-hp Sport 2.0T, and as expected the Sport 2.0T was consistently faster than the 185-hp Limited. That has to be an awkward conversation with a customer who's just laid down extra bucks for the topline Sonata with the red stripe on the engine cover. (Red equals fast.)

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...2015_hyundai_sonata_on_sale_today_is_the_eco/

 

[996GT2]

How old is the Accord? The new Sonata is quite a bit of a change compared to the previous one, so it might be they're looking for a premium for a newer car, whereas Honda having an older car is offering better deal. And then when they bring out a new one there will be a bigger price premium. Just saying as I haven't been keeping up on the Accord.

But that's also the whole point of Hyundai improving their cars, build up its reputation which will enable them to charge similar money as other brands.

Accord just got a redesign last year IMO.

 

[LTC8K6]

But the 2015 2.0T Santa Fe is still very quick...6.6 seconds, and it weighs 400 pounds more than the 2.0T Sonata, and 700 pounds more than the 1.6T Sonata.

The Santa Fe supposedly has 264hp/269tq.

http://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/santa-fe-sport

 

[996GT2]

But the 2015 2.0T Santa Fe is still very quick...6.6 seconds, and it weighs 400 pounds more than the 2.0T Sonata, and 700 pounds more than the 1.6T Sonata.

The Santa Fe supposedly has 264hp/269tq.

http://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/santa-fe-sport

It would seem like Hyundai's playing games with their rated hp numbers then. Since multiple sources got 0-60 times of around 8 seconds for the 245hp 2.0T Sonata, I'm inclined to believe that the engine is considerably overrated in terms of power output. I just don't see any other way how a 245hp turbo car can be slower than the competitors' normally aspirated 4-cylinders making 50-60 less hp. The Santa Fe engine might be more accurately rated, or even a little underrated.

 

[LTC8K6]

BMW 320i is rated 180hp/200tq, weighs 3400 pounds and gets to 60 in 6.5 seconds.

That's on par with the Sonata Eco 1.6T numbers.

If we go to the 328i auto with 240hp/255tq and 3500lb, we get a 5.6 second 0-60 time.
A full second quicker than the lower rated engines, and 2.4 seconds quicker than the 2.0T Sonata.

 

[Dice144]

After reading this went and test drove two Hyundai in my beautiful Buffalo weather! The 2013 Veloster would shake if I went over 45... turns out low tire pressure that the sale associate noticed but didn't think to fill it up before the test drive. Also tried a Santa Fe AWD. The Santa Fe was worse in the snow than my VW when it had summer tires on it!

It was so bad I didn't even leave the parking lot and just handed back the keys and left that dealer FAST! The sales rep was horrible at his job to be fair to Hyundai.

The funny thing is.. the next day my sisters BF let me borrow his Hyundai Sonata till my car is fixed. So far the Sonata feels like a very solid car and I might look at the newer ones. (Just at a different dealer)

 

[phreaqe]

After reading this went and test drove two Hyundai in my beautiful Buffalo weather! The 2013 Veloster would shake if I went over 45... turns out low tire pressure that the sale associate noticed but didn't think to fill it up before the test drive. Also tried a Santa Fe AWD. The Santa Fe was worse in the snow than my VW when it had summer tires on it!

It was so bad I didn't even leave the parking lot and just handed back the keys and left that dealer FAST! The sales rep was horrible at his job to be fair to Hyundai.

The funny thing is.. the next day my sisters BF let me borrow his Hyundai Sonata till my car is fixed. So far the Sonata feels like a very solid car and I might look at the newer ones. (Just at a different dealer)

I would probably blame that on the oem tires. My 2010 santa fe the worst car in the snow i have even been in when i had the oem tires on it. When i looked them up on tirerack, they had like a 2.0/10 rating for winter driving. I replaced them with some nokian wrg2's and it is a night a day difference. It hands the snow with ease now and is one of the better cars in snow i have been in.

 

[MegaFlop]

After reading this went and test drove two Hyundai in my beautiful Buffalo weather! The 2013 Veloster would shake if I went over 45... turns out low tire pressure that the sale associate noticed but didn't think to fill it up before the test drive. Also tried a Santa Fe AWD. The Santa Fe was worse in the snow than my VW when it had summer tires on it!

It was so bad I didn't even leave the parking lot and just handed back the keys and left that dealer FAST! The sales rep was horrible at his job to be fair to Hyundai.

Just as a counter point to this I drove our 2013 Santa Fe in substantial snow here in the northwest and I thought it was great. I felt like it did a better job then my Lancer Evolution (all season tires on both, but the Evo tires were more performance oriented). I have also used the center differential feature and hill descent feature on the Santa Fe and they work as advertised.

 

[phreaqe]

Just as a counter point to this I drove our 2013 Santa Fe in substantial snow here in the northwest and I thought it was great. I felt like it did a better job then my Lancer Evolution (all season tires on both, but the Evo tires were more performance oriented). I have also used the center differential feature and hill descent feature on the Santa Fe and they work as advertised.

Follow up to my previous point which i forgot to mention. When i was researching the tires on my 2010, it looks as though Hyundai had 2 different OEM tires on the santa fe. 1 was MUCH better in the snow then the other and it was a crapshoot which ones you got.

 

[MegaFlop]

Follow up to my previous point which i forgot to mention. When i was researching the tires on my 2010, it looks as though Hyundai had 2 different OEM tires on the santa fe. 1 was MUCH better in the snow then the other and it was a crapshoot which ones you got.

Our 2013 is a Limited with 19" wheels. I believe it has Kumho "City Venture" tires. 20K miles and no complaints. I would be tempted to get them again when the time comes for a replacement.

 

[tcsenter]

Looks like we're not going to test drive for a couple more weeks. I will be house/pet sitting for my sister while she is on vacation.

 

[soccerballtux]

Why did they downgrade the engine in the 2015 Sonata to just 245 hp from the old car's 274 hp? The MPG numbers are basically the same. That can't look good from an advertising point of view, considering competitors like the Accord and Camry are packing V6s with 270+ hp AND better MPG.

Warranty issues? That would be a solid reason to drop the boost. That wouldn't substantially affect the mpg numbers.

no, I believe they were lying about it to begin with.

after the class action lawsuit where they had to pay $700-1000/owner they probably got their tail in gear, hit the official EPA numbers, and toned down the HP inflation

 

[soccerballtux]

the styling on those Santa Fe's is disgusting. more like santa ___

 

[merlion]

It was so bad I didn't even leave the parking lot and just handed back the keys and left that dealer FAST! The sales rep was horrible at his job to be fair to Hyundai.

Which dealer was it? (PM me if you prefer not to name them publicly)

I'm also in the Buffalo area (Williamsville), and have had two Sonatas over the last few years. Bought a 2012 SE in June 2011 on a three year lease while still living near Cincinnati. Moved to Buffalo in spring of '12, and the Sonata did well in the snow with 18-inch wheels the first year, but by the next winter the tread was quite worn down and the tires needed to be replaced. Other than routine maintenance, the car was trouble free the entire three years, and got great mileage.

Last spring I turned it in off lease and picked up a 2014 Sonata GLS w/ preferred package that added heated seats, backup camera, and a few other items that I can't recall, on another three year lease. That was from a dealer here in Buffalo, and I dealt with the internet sales manager. He knew the product well, and was fine to work with. Ended up with a zero down 12K/yr. lease for $228/month.

 

[BUTCH1]

I'm also pretty shocked at how expensive Hyundais have gotten. They used to be a "value" brand compared to Honda/Toyota.

A 2015 Sonata Sport 2.0T with the 245HP turbo engine starts at $28,575. That's only $2k less than a better-equipped Accord EX-L V6 with 278HP. Considering that the Accord EX-L V6 is a little bit better equipped than a Sonata Sport, the real price difference is pretty much negligible.

Yea, that's kinda huge when you also figure in that the Honda's gonna hold a much higher resale/trade-in value than the Hyundai is.

 

[Dice144]

Which dealer was it? (PM me if you prefer not to name them publicly)

I'm also in the Buffalo area (Williamsville), and have had two Sonatas over the last few years. Bought a 2012 SE in June 2011 on a three year lease while still living near Cincinnati. Moved to Buffalo in spring of '12, and the Sonata did well in the snow with 18-inch wheels the first year, but by the next winter the tread was quite worn down and the tires needed to be replaced. Other than routine maintenance, the car was trouble free the entire three years, and got great mileage.

Last spring I turned it in off lease and picked up a 2014 Sonata GLS w/ preferred package that added heated seats, backup camera, and a few other items that I can't recall, on another three year lease. That was from a dealer here in Buffalo, and I dealt with the internet sales manager. He knew the product well, and was fine to work with. Ended up with a zero down 12K/yr. lease for $228/month.

It was the Hyundai Towne dealer on Southwestern (20) in Orchard Park. Worst experience ever.

 

[matty67]

I've driven VW's, Audi's, a Honda, and GM for the last 16 years I've been driving. Hyundai was never on my radar until they came out with the Genesis. I started my life a growing up under a car nut. Oh the first car was a Taurus SHO. It's a Ford but not really. My dad is a GM guy that I converted to Audi. My love for Audi came at age 13 with the RS2. I had visions of 2 or 3 friends in a wagon embarrassing the shit out of guys from light to light. It makes me giggle thinking about that. Anyway.... Last year after owning GTI's for the last decade my wife and I were looking to get something for the long term.

We wanted an SUV. We wanted some bells and whistler's, decent room, fuel economy, and AWD.

We looked at GM Terrain and Equinox, Nissan Rogue and Murano, BMW X1 AND X3, Audi A4 Allroad and Q5, VW Tiguan, Ford Edge and Escape, everything Subaru had, and very briefly at the Land Rover Evoque. The GM twins, Edge, Murano, and Tiguan all looked dated and tired. Had a hard time getting excited about them. We also hated the ride/handling/everything about the Edge. It felt like a tank and just very disconnected.

The Audi's were awesome but not exactly cheap and their finance rates made things even less appealing.

The Escape was the #1 contender. It was big but not too big. It had heated seats (they're a must) and favorite of all it had that automatic lift gate that you can activate with your foot. Perfect for when you're needing to load 50lbs of dog food in the back. It also has a terrible front passengers seat. We were tempted but didn't bite.

The Rogue, Subaru's, and many others all had CVT transmissions. It turns out a CVT can't tow. Upon this discovery they all came off our list. Both my wife and I hated the interior and dash and seats of all the Toyota's. They never entered the list. Honda and Acura didn't make it either because they killed the Prelude and said the Accord coupe was the replacement. And right now I don't like anything they have.

We drove the Escape again and the seat sucked. So we stopped by Hyundai. I never thought I'd drive a Hyundai.

The 2014 Santa Fe Sport was the car that grabbed our attention. We liked the design more so than the Escape which is a bit awkward from some angles. They also have a real transmission. Upon sitting in it my first thought - on sitting in the passengers seat was FML I'm getting a Hyundai.

The Sport is a great size. It gets decent mileage tho winter fuel economy isn't superb. The AWD system is great in the snow - all 2 times I've used it - but it got my wife to work and back and she felt very confident in it. Also in Canada the extended bumper to bumper warranty is transferable and covers pretty much everything except wear items. We went new because it ended up cheaper to finance a new one at 0% then it was for something used in the 4-6% range. The Santa Fe is holding its value really well here. Actually anything SUV like is.

We had a new 2015 Sonata on a holiday for almost 3 weeks and with the turbo it was a really decent car. Seats were good. Only thing I didn't care for was the radio. It worked fine just seemed tacky. Of and there was a blue LED overhead behind the sunglass holder that was brighter than the sun. It was very annoying and very blue. Our Santa Fe has this too but it's more subdued. BMW and Audi use red or orange because it doesn't mess you night vision up.

 

[child of wonder]

Purchased a brand new 2013 Hyundia Sonata Limited trim with the 2.0L Turbo engine back in May of 2012.

Overall, I'd give the car a C+. The stock tires were awful for winter driving and I had to change out at 10k miles (not a problem for you if you're in CA). The interior noise is pretty high and the plastic in the car already rattles very badly. I have the premium sound system and anything with bass makes the window controls rattle and the dealer refuses to do anything about it.

The navigation system is subpar. Gas mileage is crappy despite mostly highway driving. Just got 25 mpg on a tank.

We also own a 2011 Ford Explorer Limited and the build quality and technology is vastly superior. My wife and I far prefer driving it over the Sonata and we'll probably get rid of the Sonata soon.

 

[yh125d]

Yea, that's kinda huge when you also figure in that the Honda's gonna hold a much higher resale/trade-in value than the Hyundai is.

2005 wants its misconceptions back. Honda/Toyota don't hold the resale premium they once did (because everyone has become pretty much equal if not better in some/many ways), and even when they did this was faulty thinking. You're going to pay 3 grand more now for a car that will sell for 3 grand more later than the other car? You don't gain anything there. If anything you lose a little money due to paying more interest on a larger loan (usually). At least in the past you could count on a Honda/Toyota definitely being better than the cheaper Ford/Chevy/Hyundai/whatever, which is pretty much completely gone nowadays.

 

[AMCRambler]

Fyi they specify to replace the timing belt at 60k. Seems like every other car I was familiar with that wad an 80k or 100k service. Good news is on the Elantra it's cheap to do. Dealer quoted me $600.

My wife has a 2007 and has owned it since new. It's been pretty reliable and has only needed two oxygen sensors, a flex pipe, door lock actuator, timing belt, belts, brakes and tires in all that time. I had the transmission fluid changed while it was in for the belt. Has had no major mechanical issues and has never left her stranded.