What is the point of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray?

[SickBeast]

I recently watched an HD clip of Terminator 2 that I downloaded from Microsoft. Apparently you can buy a standard DVD-9 disc that has the full movie encoded on it in WMV format at 1080P (1920x1080 resolution).

My question is: If they can produce video at this quality for a full-feature film on current DVD's using current codecs, then why on earth are they releasing new formats?

I mean, the single layered HD-DVD only holds 15GB! That's only 5GB more than a standard DVD!

It doesn't make sense to me, and I wish they would just start encoding everything in H.264 and putting the movies onto DVD's. They should just make players that support the new codecs IMO.

Thoughts?

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

Because Technology doesn't stay in one spot. It usually goes forward.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: djmihow
Because Technology doesn't stay in one spot. It usually goes forward.

That's all well and fine. What are these high capacity dics going to offer that current DVD's cannot?

I can see their use for backing up stuff and even for putting 10 movies on a single disc (if Sony would even allow this). Other than that they are useless IMO.

 

[Ricemarine]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: djmihow
Because Technology doesn't stay in one spot. It usually goes forward.

That's all well and fine. What are these high capacity dics going to offer that current DVD's cannot?

I can see their use for backing up stuff and even for putting 10 movies on a single disc (if Sony would even allow this). Other than that they are useless IMO.

1. Don't require more than 1 DVD for something, just like how we need 5 cd's to play CoD2, while it can fit on 1 DVD.
2. Faster write and read.
3. Now why wouldn't we want better technology?
4. A blue light

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Ricemarine

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: djmihow
Because Technology doesn't stay in one spot. It usually goes forward.

That's all well and fine. What are these high capacity dics going to offer that current DVD's cannot?

I can see their use for backing up stuff and even for putting 10 movies on a single disc (if Sony would even allow this). Other than that they are useless IMO.

1. Don't require more than 1 DVD for something, just like how we need 5 cd's to play CoD2, while it can fit on 1 DVD.
2. Faster write and read.
3. Now why wouldn't we want better technology?
4. A blue light

Yeah, but you look at the 650MB CD-ROM and the ~9,600MB DVD-ROM and you see more than a 10-fold increase in capacity. The Blu-Ray is a little over 5 times as spacious, and the HD-DVD is only 2.5 times as big.

They should have waited for 100GB discs before releasing a new format IMO.

 

[RebateMonger]

A big reason for the new formats is that the DVD industry screwed up and totally lost control of the copy protection with DVD. They can start over with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
A big reason for the new formats iss that the DVD industry screwed up and totally lost control of the copy protection with DVD. They can start over with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

Ding Ding!! If DVD was still tight as a rock, there would be no commotion to switch. Either way it will be cracked again.

Btw, I thought BlueRay started at something like 36ish GB? In terms of storage, going from a dual layered 9Gig DVD to a dual layered 72gig blueray is pretty nice

 

[Synomenon]

High Definition content is many times larger than normal quality video.

 

[0roo0roo]

no room to grow even with newer codec. look how dvd got totally crowded with features until movie video bitrate started to suffer. like with the beauty and the beast disc where they had the extra added scene for seamless branching.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
What are these high capacity discs going to offer that current DVD's cannot?

You answered your own question IN your own question.

BTW, Blu-Ray = 25GB/50GB (Single/DL)

 

[RebateMonger]

"Sony, representing one of two competing high-definition DVD formats, stated it will simultaneously embrace digital watermarking, programmable cryptography, and a self-destruct code for Blu-ray disc players."

Kinda' scary when you consider what Sony has been doing with root kits on CDs.

I'd guess that, after a new Hi-Def DVD format comes out, it'll be about two years before DVD (original format) sources dry up. The movie industry will want to get the old-style DVDs out of circulation, since they essentially make movies "Public Domain" as far as copying is concerned.

 

[alimoalem]

why not for money? with a new format comes discs/burners that are way above the msrp but they're sold anyways cause certain people "need" the best. plus, as a previous poster mentioned, it gives companies a new format to use to prevent copying of their products

it's not so much for the good of the consumers; it's for the companies

 

[RebateMonger]

No matter which format is used for movies, I hope they allow you to Fast-Forward through the copyright notices. I HATE those. One of my main reasons for not bothering to watch a DVD movie is I don't want to sit through the stupid mandatory warnings.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I recently watched an HD clip of Terminator 2 that I downloaded from Microsoft. Apparently you can buy a standard DVD-9 disc that has the full movie encoded on it in WMV format at 1080P (1920x1080 resolution).

My question is: If they can produce video at this quality for a full-feature film on current DVD's using current codecs, then why on earth are they releasing new formats?

The bitrate on the T2 HD version is, frankly, not that good compared to full-out HD streams. A 2-hour movie on a 9GB disc is getting, at most, ~10Mbps (minus audio, menus, and other overhead), whereas TV-quality HD is ~18-20Mbps (and even *that* has compression artifacts sometimes). True, this is WMV9 or H.264 versus MPEG2-HD, but there simply isn't enough room on standard DVDs for HD feature films.

I mean, the single layered HD-DVD only holds 15GB! That's only 5GB more than a standard DVD!

Well, that would be 6GB more than a 9GB DVD, but who's counting?

HD-DVD has triple the capacity of a standard DVD (if the number of layers are the same). Blu-Ray is about five times the capacity. That's a VERY meaningful improvement in capacity. Is it as big a jump as CD to DVD? No, but then, CD technology had been around for almost 20 years when DVDs came out.

It doesn't make sense to me, and I wish they would just start encoding everything in H.264 and putting the movies onto DVD's. They should just make players that support the new codecs IMO.

Thoughts?

You could do it, but HD-DVD/Blu-Ray should look better (due to allowing higher bitrates), and the studios don't want to release HD versions of their movies without better copy protection.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
"Sony, representing one of two competing high-definition DVD formats, stated it will simultaneously embrace digital watermarking, programmable cryptography, and a self-destruct code for Blu-ray disc players."

Kinda' scary when you consider what Sony has been doing with root kits on CDs.

I'd guess that, after a new Hi-Def DVD format comes out, it'll be about two years before DVD (original format) sources dry up. The movie industry will want to get the old-style DVDs out of circulation, since they essentially make movies "Public Domain" as far as copying is concerned.

holy fvck. what is the drm rules for hddvd? I'm definitely not getting blu-ray if there are self destruct. damn imagine a virus that takes advantage of that. It's only waitting to happen.

 

[Darkon]

There is no self-destruct code for blu ray disc players.

and drm rules for hd dvd are almost the same

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I recently watched an HD clip of Terminator 2 that I downloaded from Microsoft. Apparently you can buy a standard DVD-9 disc that has the full movie encoded on it in WMV format at 1080P (1920x1080 resolution).

My question is: If they can produce video at this quality for a full-feature film on current DVD's using current codecs, then why on earth are they releasing new formats?

I mean, the single layered HD-DVD only holds 15GB! That's only 5GB more than a standard DVD!

It doesn't make sense to me, and I wish they would just start encoding everything in H.264 and putting the movies onto DVD's. They should just make players that support the new codecs IMO.

Thoughts?

People who say this don't have 100" Home Theaters, 1920x1080 in wmv is fine on a computer but when put on a large screen all that compression starts to be very noticable.

Home Theaters owners want the least amount of compression they can get. Both HD-DVD and BluRay can do 36mbps which is a lot more then wmv.

HD-DVD is 15, 30 or 45 gigs depending on how many layers. The R's will be 20 and 40 gigs which will be good for Computer users.

BluRay is 25 or 50 gigs with the ability to go to 100 or even 200 if things work out.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Darkon
There is no self-destruct code for blu ray disc players.

and drm rules for hd dvd are almost the same

HDCP is used by BOTH systems, and one of its provisions is that the playback device can be validated before HD content can be read. If, say, a particular model of Blu-Ray player was hacked or found to be bugged, they could update the list of disallowed devices to, essentially, disable all those players (or only let them play back at SD resolutions).

This is not a Blu-Ray (specific) feature, and I hope this gives you some idea of the extent to which Hollywood is trying to protect this content. The people saying "eh, don't worry, HDCP will be hacked a month after release" may be unpleasantly surprised when it proves remarkably resistant to attack.

 

[Mickey21]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I recently watched an HD clip of Terminator 2 that I downloaded from Microsoft. Apparently you can buy a standard DVD-9 disc that has the full movie encoded on it in WMV format at 1080P (1920x1080 resolution).

My question is: If they can produce video at this quality for a full-feature film on current DVD's using current codecs, then why on earth are they releasing new formats?

I mean, the single layered HD-DVD only holds 15GB! That's only 5GB more than a standard DVD!

It doesn't make sense to me, and I wish they would just start encoding everything in H.264 and putting the movies onto DVD's. They should just make players that support the new codecs IMO.

Thoughts?

You are comparing Single layered HD-DVD to dual layered Standard DVD. Single layered Standard DVD is only ~5GB, so really there is a larger difference, but yeah I see what you are saying. On HD-DVD though, the quality would be higher as there would be less need for compression. The WMV Terminator 2 full length does look great, but would look better at a higher bit rate of course.

I see it a little differently though, when the HD-DVD standard should be backwards compatible, there isnt a lot of reason to hold back on the format. Or Blue Ray for that matter, which ever format wins. Oh well, that is progress...

Only other matter is the huge demand now for series or mutliple movies. Truthfully I would rather own Star Wars 1-6 on a single HD-DVD than 6 for instance. Or Season 1 of Seinfeld on 1 HD-DVD than 3-4 DVD's. Just my opinion.