What is the philosophical debate called that argues whether or not we have a will?

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Free Will is a flawed concept.

We can not choose who we are born to because we come from our parents. So we dont have totally free will. My church instead refers to this as a Moral Agency...

The ones who suggest there is free will never answer the question of causality, they always dodge it like trying to avoid a bullet

 

[KCfromNC]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
> God giveth teh free will

God doesn't equal free will for some schools of thought, then we have predestination and (divine) determinism

Either of the other ideas seem logical to me. This one defies logic on all counts imho.
Why would God create a universe that is completely and totally predestined?
It's just not logical on any level.

Maybe god had no choice? There are reasonable arguments that omniscience requires determinism. Omniscience and Determinism

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: KCfromNC

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
> God giveth teh free will

God doesn't equal free will for some schools of thought, then we have predestination and (divine) determinism

Either of the other ideas seem logical to me. This one defies logic on all counts imho.
Why would God create a universe that is completely and totally predestined?
It's just not logical on any level.

Maybe god had no choice? There are reasonable arguments that omniscience requires determinism. Omniscience and Determinism

When i speak of God i am speaking of omnipotent God almighty. The creator.
If he is the creator then he must be all powerful and have total control.
Anything less then that and he is nothing more then another being in the universe just like us or an amoeba and therefor not God. I don't think there is room for a semi powerful creator. He is either the creator or he is not.

Here is the kicker. With an omnipotent & all powerful God, God can know the future and at the same time you can have free will.

This is the paradox of all paradoxes and, i believe, is totally unprovable through science or even comprehension yet i believe it to be true.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: KCfromNC

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
> God giveth teh free will

God doesn't equal free will for some schools of thought, then we have predestination and (divine) determinism

Either of the other ideas seem logical to me. This one defies logic on all counts imho.
Why would God create a universe that is completely and totally predestined?
It's just not logical on any level.

Maybe god had no choice? There are reasonable arguments that omniscience requires determinism. Omniscience and Determinism

When i speak of God i am speaking of omnipotent God almighty. The creator.
If he is the creator then he must be all powerful and have total control.
Anything less then that and he is nothing more then another being in the universe just like us or an amoeba and therefor not God. I don't think there is room for a semi powerful creator. He is either the creator or he is not.

Here is the kicker. With an omnipotent & all powerful God, God can know the future and at the same time you can have free will.

This is the paradox of all paradoxes and, i believe, is totally unprovable through science or even comprehension yet i believe it to be true.

The concept of an all-knowing, all powerful god is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. When I tell religious zealots that bacteria and single celled life sprang up out of nowhere they say how far fetched that is. They say it must have been a complex creator that made them. But I pose this question: What's more likely to spring up out of raw materials- a single bacteria, or an omnipotent, omniscient being?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Perry404
What is the philosophical debate called that argues whether or not we have a will?

To freshen your memory...

Since we are subject to the laws of physics it is impossible that we have a will. For if our entire body including our thoughts are made simply from molecules governed by the laws of momentum & mass etc...then how can we possibly "choose" to change the course of those molecules if they must follow the laws of physics?

Anyone remember what this debate is named?

Your thoughts are patterns of moving electrons, not molecules. Whats the argument again?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Perry404

When i speak of God i am speaking of omnipotent God almighty. The creator.
If he is the creator then he must be all powerful and have total control.
Anything less then that and he is nothing more then another being in the universe just like us or an amoeba and therefor not God. I don't think there is room for a semi powerful creator. He is either the creator or he is not.

Here is the kicker. With an omnipotent & all powerful God, God can know the future and at the same time you can have free will.

This is the paradox of all paradoxes and, i believe, is totally unprovable through science or even comprehension yet i believe it to be true.

No, there's nothing paradoxical about it. It's all perspective. From our limited point of view, we have free will. From God's point of view, we don't. As God knows everything, then at the very moment of creation, God knew what everyone would ever decide about everything, therefore he was directing those choices from the start.

Something more paradoxical, perhaps, would be whether or not God has free will. This is along the same lines of, "Could God create a rock so heavy that he could not lift it?"

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
The concept of an all-knowing, all powerful god is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. When I tell religious zealots that bacteria and single celled life sprang up out of nowhere they say how far fetched that is. They say it must have been a complex creator that made them. But I pose this question: What's more likely to spring up out of raw materials- a single bacteria, or an omnipotent, omniscient being?

Many people also have little grasp of concepts like "billions" or other very large numbers.
I made a post near the end of the Zeitgeist thread (old thread, revive it at your own risk) which seemed to impress at least one person.

Summary:
- BIG planet
- enourmous volume of water
- many many gigawatts of energy coming in from the sun each year
- trillions upon trillions of molecular interactions
- Scientific American published articles describing molecular systems which could mimic some of life's basic functions, including consumption, excretion, and reproduction. Possible source of abiogenesis.

Put these things together, give the planet a billion years or so of goal-less, but not entirely disorderly (laws of physics always apply) R&D time, and eventually you get a self-sustaining "reaction" - the first cell which we would define as being "alive."

Therein lies another interesting point: something is only "alive" if it fits the definition which we devised. Viruses are one example of where this definition can cause problems. Are they alive? They can reproduce, but only through host cells. Alive vs non-living might not be a black and white definition. Would a group of molecules which are themselves capable of consuming, excreting, and reproducing themselves be considered "alive?"
To give another example of what I am saying here, would be the distinction between gases and liquids. In everyday life, there's a very clear distinction. But zoom out a bit and look at Earth. All that gas surrounding us seems to flow around the planet as a liquid might. It doesn't disperse out into space, but is bound by a container made of gravity. Now suddenly, that to which we ascribe the term "gas" seems to behave as a "liquid."

 

[everman]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Here is the kicker. With an omnipotent & all powerful God, God can know the future and at the same time you can have free will.

This is the paradox of all paradoxes and, i believe, is totally unprovable through science or even comprehension yet i believe it to be true.

I think if it is possible for some intelligent entity, such as God, to be outside of our space time continuum, then perhaps God can see everything all at once, the entire space time continuum from beginning to the theoretical end.