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What is the number you pro war folks are comfortable with?

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
let me get this straight...you want to determine the number of american casualties it takes to "break the will" of the country to wage war in iraq..

let's say your right with the 5000 number..

so any despot can attack/blackmail/threaten/destabilize the U.S., and all they need to do is kill 5000
american troops to get the U.S. to back off..

do you understand that other countries and their goverments look at the U.S. and interpret our actions based on
previous events? the fact that negative press and protests at home in the 70's "resulted" in the withdrawal of U.S. troops from vietnam,
made the U.S. look weak and defeatable (by a small country no less) and probably has ENCOURAGED the present eforts in iraq to kill americans.

if we don't present a determined, united front to our enemies (and rest assurred we have enemies not of our own making) a strong argument can be made
that we are encouraging them to continue to fight us.

military force is the last form of diplomacy when all else has failed...it's best role is as a deterrent..but it has to be a credible deterrent to work.

to undermine the credibilty of our military actions is self-defeating..like it or not, that's why some people call the actions of the democrats "treasonous"
No treasonous is this kind of thinking which in VN costs us 55,000 dead. You don't put a moron in charge of a credible deterrent and expect it to remain credible. It needs to be put to credible use not preemptively based on lies. Bush has sabotaged our nation.

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Given that 3600% more people have died in France due to heat (and the inaction of the French government while on vacation), I believe we have a long way to go before the 'Vietnam Quagmire' arguments become validated.
Does Mommy know you're playing with her computer again? What a dipstick.

Beat it, troll.
Of course you thought that, because his views do not coincide with your own. That's the problem with kids like you...pull your pants up and get it through your head that there are two sides to every argument. :D




 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
let me get this straight...you want to determine the number of american casualties it takes to "break the will" of the country to wage war in iraq..

let's say your right with the 5000 number..

so any despot can attack/blackmail/threaten/destabilize the U.S., and all they need to do is kill 5000
american troops to get the U.S. to back off..
well sure we can't have that, and Saddam is by all means a despot, but then again Iraq was not doing anything to "attack/blackmail/threaten/destabilize the U.S."; so i don't rightly see how your argument applies to this case.
Exactly, we should rephrase the question. How many people, both American and Iraqi, and how much money are you willing to sacrifice to invade a country that:

1. Does not have the military to threaten us in anyway
2. Does not have the WMD that we fear so much
3. Has done nothing to provoke us
4. Has no proven link to the terrorist group responsible for 911
 
Jan 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: rchiu



Exactly, we should rephrase the question. How many people, both American and Iraqi, and how much money are you willing to sacrifice to invade a country that:

1. Does not have the military to threaten us in anyway
I wonder why this is...perhaps because they decided to invade their neighbors a few years back? At that time, didn't they have the 4th largest standing army in the world? How about Kosovo? Did you go around marching on Washington about that little threat? Oh, wait, that aspirin factory sure had "the military to threaten us." ...anyway.

2. Does not have the WMD that we fear so much
..and you know this how? Could you please provide me with a source of this unfounded proposition? Blix? NYT? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?


3. Has done nothing to provoke us
..except shoot at our boys flying watch in the southern and southern no-fly-zones, right? Oh, and violated how many more lines of the cease-fire agreement?

4. Has no proven link to the terrorist group responsible for 911
..but pays $25K to "belt-bombers" in Palestine and has terrorist training camps deep into Iraq. I know, I know, we should have waited until Saddam used the $1B+ is hard currency, reconstituted his military to pre-Gulf War levels, developed the means the deliver chemical agents to American soil, killed half the people in California, then we should have taken ex post action...
 

phillyTIM

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
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I'm uncomfortable with a "1" single, solitary death of our troops when this war has been a sham all along, a lie from our fraud president bush.

That 1 death is 100% totally unacceptable over a lie.
 

phillyTIM

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

"Who is John Galt?"
"Who cares?!!"

John Galt is a liar too...frolicking around with his threats saying he was gonna sick the Secret Service on me. How long ago now was that, and absolutely nothing has happened. Perhaps he fits right in, and is a member, with the Bushevik Regime.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: phillyTIM
I'm uncomfortable with a "1" single, solitary death of our troops when this war has been a sham all along, a lie from our fraud president bush.

That 1 death is 100% totally unacceptable over a lie.
Is you post supposed to make sense. What would your brillant idea have been. Please share as I would like to know just how you would have done it.

KK
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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so JohnGalt, you agree to point 1, and seem to understand that point 2 is still very much a matter of conjecture, and on point 4 you just went off topic. as for point 3; are you referring to that unmanned plane of ours that went down over Iraq? either way i don't see how you can defend the idea that Iraq tried to "attack/blackmail/threaten/destabilize the U.S." as heartsurgeon implied, nore do i see how any number of casualties resulting from our aggression is justified in this war.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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and what are you asking him anyway KK? what do you mean by "would have done it"? get our troops killed, or lie, or what are you reffering to anyway?
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
and what are you asking him anyway KK? what do you mean by "would have done it"? get our troops killed, or lie, or what are you reffering to anyway?
Handled the Iraq problem. Why the hell would I have meant any of the nonsense you spoke of?

KK
 
Jan 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman


so JohnGalt, you agree to point 1...
Yes, I do. Saddam no longer has a military that threatens America, nor will he ever be able to assemble an Army that threatens America, so you are correct...we agree.



and seem to understand that point 2 is still very much a matter of conjecture...
Agree


as for point 3; are you referring to that unmanned plane of ours that went down over Iraq?
No. I think the 'unmanned plane' threat, however, is crap...except that he could use those to attack his neighbors again. I was referring to Saddam using his military to target and fire on our Air Force patrolling the no-fly zones.

U.N. Resolution 1441 states in part that "Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations ... or of any member state taking action to uphold any Council resolution."

I believe they engaged our boys over 130 times in 2002.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: rchiu


Exactly, we should rephrase the question. How many people, both American and Iraqi, and how much money are you willing to sacrifice to invade a country that:

1. Does not have the military to threaten us in anyway
I wonder why this is...perhaps because they decided to invade their neighbors a few years back? At that time, didn't they have the 4th largest standing army in the world? How about Kosovo? Did you go around marching on Washington about that little threat? Oh, wait, that aspirin factory sure had "the military to threaten us." ...anyway.
So in your word, Iraqi does not threaten us.

2. Does not have the WMD that we fear so much
..and you know this how? Could you please provide me with a source of this unfounded proposition? Blix? NYT? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?
American had 5 month to search the country and hasn't come up with even one oz. of chemical/biological weapon, not to mention tons and tons. I believe in facts and evidence and I don't speculate, can't say the same thing about you though.

3. Has done nothing to provoke us
..except shoot at our boys flying watch in the southern and southern no-fly-zones, right? Oh, and violated how many more lines of the cease-fire agreement?
Our boys also shoot 1,100 missiles at 359 target between beginning of 1999 and Aug of 1999. Conducted 6 air strikes in Sept of 2002 in preparation for the invasion even before UN concluded Iraqi was in violation of 1441.

Again, had Iraq done anything to the American interest other then protecting their turf?

And don't talk about cease-fire agreement signed by the UN when you can't abide by UN decision.

4. Has no proven link to the terrorist group responsible for 911
..but pays $25K to "belt-bombers" in Palestine and has terrorist training camps deep into Iraq. I know, I know, we should have waited until Saddam used the $1B+ is hard currency, reconstituted his military to pre-Gulf War levels, developed the means the deliver chemical agents to American soil, killed half the people in California, then we should have taken ex post action...
How is belt bomber related to 911? And show me one link saying that Hussein and Iraqi government supported those terrorist training camp, or was directly involved in those camp. If the government really supported the training camp, why were those camp in remote northern area and not in some big modern complex in downtown Baghdad.

And your last statement can easily applied to NK, China, Russia, France and any number of countries that doesn't kiss Bush's @ss like Blair. Anyone of those countries can or already have mass amount of WMD and in your theory can deliver it to the US and kill half of people in CA. What are you gonna do about them? Should American go kill all imaginary enemy out of fear?

Just answer the question, what had Iraq done to us that we had to kill thousands of them while losing hundreds of our boys and hundreds of billion of our money to invade them? Are we any safer today then 6 month ago? Is the world more peaceful today then 6 month ago? Where Iraqi better off today then 6 month ago? Before you start spewing your opinion, let me remind you with some facts. Bombing in Saudi Arabia and Indonesia targeting American and other Westerner. Bombing at UN mission in Iraq. Bombing in Iraqi mosque
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
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May I suggest we raise the number we are comfortable with to nine?

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rice and since they're so supportive of the policies these people instituted heartsurgeon, johngalt and bigdude.

Transport is leaving in the morning. Show your true support. Be there.

It's easy to support the war from your computer. Put your ass on the line and see if you don't change your minds.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: BOBDN
May I suggest we raise the number we are comfortable with to nine?

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rice and since they're so supportive of the policies these people instituted heartsurgeon, johngalt and bigdude.

Transport is leaving in the morning. Show your true support. Be there.

It's easy to support the war from your computer. Put your ass on the line and see if you don't change your minds.
Oh and I take it you have served your country?
Also why did you leave out Powell?

KK
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
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No treasonous is this kind of thinking which in VN costs us 55,000 dead.
am i reading this right...

you agree that the democrats (Kennedy, Johnson) acted in a treasonous manner in Vietnam (remember they started it, and they ran it, and they didn't have the will to win it)
i think that's what you said...

once again i agree with you fully.
 

Konigin

Platinum Member
Jan 21, 2003
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In the end, the number doesn't really matter. As little as possible is great, but people are always going to keep fighting and dying for what they believe in.
 
Jan 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: BOBDN


It's easy to support the war from your computer. Put your ass on the line and see if you don't change your minds.

Been there, done that...multiple times...and you have done what for your country, Boob?

 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: BOBDN


It's easy to support the war from your computer. Put your ass on the line and see if you don't change your minds.

Been there, done that...multiple times...and you have done what for your country, Boob?
I oppose fascists. That's what I do for my country gout.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: BOBDN


It's easy to support the war from your computer. Put your ass on the line and see if you don't change your minds.

Been there, done that...multiple times...and you have done what for your country, Boob?

He's a yellow faced coward, you can't expect much more than that from him.

KK
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: BOBDN


It's easy to support the war from your computer. Put your ass on the line and see if you don't change your minds.

Been there, done that...multiple times...and you have done what for your country, Boob?
GI Joe don't count.

Boob? Does your mommy know you are.. Never mind.
 
Jan 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: BOBDN


It's easy to support the war from your computer. Put your ass on the line and see if you don't change your minds.

Been there, done that...multiple times...and you have done what for your country, Boob?
I oppose fascists. That's what I do for my country gout.
I figured as much.


The same freedoms you enjoy, like the ability to sit at home in your dick-beater shirt, Schlitz malt king can in hand, and a NYT paper in the other, and spew anti-bush rhetoric, should be enjoyed the world over...but if people like you, who have never looked in the eyes of Iraqi citizens and heard them thank you in person and tell stories of the way in which their family was treated, had your way, they would still be living in fear and under a brutal dictator who would kill anyone (his own family included)who takes opposing views...selfish, and not in a good way.

Thanks for doing your country a service, Boob; we all thank you.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: BOBDN


It's easy to support the war from your computer. Put your ass on the line and see if you don't change your minds.

Been there, done that...multiple times...and you have done what for your country, Boob?
You volunteered your time gout? Oh, no? You chose to join and were paid.

Your choice. You were paid. Get over it.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
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PS

Did you happen to see Georgie while you were there?

Oh, you didn't? He was busy dodging the draft?

So, what's your president done for his country, gout?
 

phillyTIM

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
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JohnGalt has proven himself to be a liar coward; he certainly could not have had the balls to be in the Service. He thinks he knows the Secret Service, as he threated me last week with it, but nothing came of it.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
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So now all the losers who weren't capable of getting a real job and had to join the military (during peace time) are coming out of the woodwork.

Brainwashed delusional jar heads.

Any of you volunteer your time? No? What a surprise.

None of you were conscripted. You chose to join. You were all paid.

Now you're all American heroes. Uh, huh.
 

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