What is the difference between believing in Aliens and believing in God?

[SuperTool]

The difference is that there is a reasonable, if small, chance that aliens exist.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
The difference is that there is a reasonable, if small, chance that aliens exist.

Flawed logic. The evidence and reasonability are exactly the same for God as for aliens. Meaning NONE.
I've been pounding this through thick skulls for 2 weeks and it is very clear that faith deludes. But that was what I was trying to prove in the first place, so mission accomplished there much as it sickens me.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SuperTool
The difference is that there is a reasonable, if small, chance that aliens exist.

Flawed logic. The evidence and reasonability are exactly the same for God as for aliens. Meaning NONE.
I've been pounding this through thick skulls for 2 weeks and it is very clear that faith deludes. But that was what I was trying to prove in the first place, so mission accomplished there much as it sickens me.

Nobody is claiming Aliens created planets, animals and plants out of nothing, violating the law of conservation of mass. Aliens are lifeforms on different planets. We know that lifeforms can exist on planets given the right conditions, earth being an example. So we know aliens are possible, it's only a matter of probability. That is more than can be said for God. The possibility of God's existance is not proven.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Nobody is claiming Aliens created planets, animals and plants out of nothing, violating the law of conservation of mass. Aliens are lifeforms on different planets. We know that lifeforms can exist on planets given the right conditions, earth being an example. So we know aliens are possible, it's only a matter of probability. That is more than can be said for God. The possibility of God's existance is not proven.

The Bible never says that God created anything out of nothing. That would be an incorrect interpretation. Substitute "create" in Genesis for the word "organize" and that would be MUCH closer to the meaning in the original Hebrew text. This is well-documented (the Hebrew word "bara" translated into English in the KJV as "create" actually means to "form, fashion, or organize" in Ancient Hebrew). You should try to be more well-versed about the things you seek to condemn. This false belief came out of the fact that Christianity is a Greek religion and that Greek philosophers of ancient days (Aristotle, etc.) believed in a creation from nothing. The Jews did not and never did.

As for the rest of your argument, that is hot air. The possibilities of God and aliens are BOTH neither proven or disproven. They may or may not. I'm not the individual espousing that people have faith in one and not the other.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: Brazen

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tabb
There are some mathmatical calculations that do infact show that somewhere in the galaxy there is a high probablity of "life" somewhere...

It still requires some degree of faith to beileve in, but not PURE FAITH.

Pure faith = The fact there is some loving god in the sky who doesn't like gay marriage or abortion.
Faith = The fact that I'll do well in life. I've had some hard times and I've gotten this far. There more evidence that I'll do well, than poorly. I still have to have faith.

You mean the Drake Equation, right? An equation with no constant and variables that are (at best) wild guesses is not exactly a hard science. The equation itself could be "accurately" solved for any number greater than or equal to 1 (the 1 being the Earth itself).

As for your definitions there, you're confusing faith with hope.

....and misrepresenting the definition of faith. I believe Merriam-Webster's definition 2b for faith is the faith we are discussing:

Faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof

Well, where's is the proof that I'll be happy in 20 or so years? There REALLY isn't any.

What I said eariler was kind of breif...

I infact cleary exsist and there is a fact that am graduating high school this year. Then I am going on to college. I beileve that I will do well and end up like everyone else, living my life out and dying as a old man. Is their any real evidence that this will infact happen? Not, really. Is this faith? I'd say there is a degree of faith involved.

As for beileving in God... Well, that's PURE faith that there is some guy in the sky that watches over us and measure how much sin we commit on a daliy basis. There is NO evidence of God exsisting or the fact that it's some benovlent guy in the sky who doesn't like Gay Marriage and Abortion.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Nobody is claiming Aliens created planets, animals and plants out of nothing, violating the law of conservation of mass. Aliens are lifeforms on different planets. We know that lifeforms can exist on planets given the right conditions, earth being an example. So we know aliens are possible, it's only a matter of probability. That is more than can be said for God. The possibility of God's existance is not proven.

The Bible never says that God created anything out of nothing. That would be an incorrect interpretation. Substitute "create" in Genesis for the word "organize" and that would be MUCH closer to the meaning in the original Hebrew text. This is well-documented (the Hebrew word "bara" translated into English in the KJV as "create" actually means to "form, fashion, or organize" in Ancient Hebrew). You should try to be more well-versed about the things you seek to condemn. This false belief came out of the fact that Christianity is a Greek religion and that Greek philosophers of ancient days (Aristotle, etc.) believed in a creation from nothing. The Jews did not and never did.

As for the rest of your argument, that is hot air. The possibilities of God and aliens are BOTH neither proven or disproven. They may or may not. I'm not the individual espousing that people have faith in one and not the other.

"There exist lifeforms on planets" is a fact. Proof: we are a lifeform existing on a planet.
So can prove there is a nonzero probability of life existing on a planet. If there was a zero probability, we would not exist.
"There exists a God" is not a fact. It's a belief. You cannot prove that probability that God exists is not zero.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tabb
There are some mathmatical calculations that do infact show that somewhere in the galaxy there is a high probablity of "life" somewhere...

It still requires some degree of faith to beileve in, but not PURE FAITH.

Pure faith = The fact there is some loving god in the sky who doesn't like gay marriage or abortion.
Faith = The fact that I'll do well in life. I've had some hard times and I've gotten this far. There more evidence that I'll do well, than poorly. I still have to have faith.

You mean the Drake Equation, right? An equation with no constant and variables that are (at best) wild guesses is not exactly a hard science. The equation itself could be "accurately" solved for any number greater than or equal to 1 (the 1 being the Earth itself).

As for your definitions there, you're confusing faith with hope.

Doesn't the drake equation presuppose the existence of alien life by including it among the data required to complete the equation? How can it determine the probability of there being alien life when knowledge of the number of systems which contain alien life is required to solve the equation?

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Velk
That is some astonishingly creative clutching at straws - you could use the same argument to support the assertion that poured water always flows to the east rather than downhill.

Just think of it - "Water would flow east even on flat ground. It would spread out in all directions in an effort to maximize entropy by minimizing water concentration gradients."

"Look ! The puddle is spreading in all directions on flat ground but SOME of it is going east ! Therefore I am right."

I can only hope you're being facetious here. If not, I'd suggest you kindly stfu. Go look up Fick's law of diffusion and report back with your findings. On second thought, I'll save you the trouble. If diffusion were a myth as you claim, you would be dead. Fick was the MD that put a very basic mathematical model to match the reality. I can also tell you about Newton's law of viscosity which, when combined with basic surface tension principles, tells you why 'flat' water would spread evenly over the ground until its thickness was such that the surface tension matched the pointwise atmospheric pressure.

While it's a facetious example, it also illustrates the fundamental flaw in your reasoning.

Let me make it a little clearer for you :

Observation - Steam always goes up.

Theory for why this occurs - Diffusion makes it go in all directions.

Can you see what the shortcoming of this theory is ? Hint - it has nothing to do with whether or not diffusion occurs as you stated.

The principle you are looking for is convection
.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Velk
While it's a facetious example, it also illustrates the fundamental flaw in your reasoning.

Let me make it a little clearer for you :

Observation - Steam always goes up.

Theory for why this occurs - Diffusion makes it go in all directions.

Can you see what the shortcoming of this theory is ? Hint - it has nothing to do with whether or not diffusion occurs as you stated.

The principle you are looking for is convection.

Kid, let me give you a hint: if you want to learn about this stuff, I'll teach it to you, not the other way around. The shortcoming is in your own ability to understand what I was addressing, not my ability to understand the principles of fluid dynamics. The entire point was for me to point out that he did not have the knowledge required to make such judgments - that he was extrapolating outside his area of knowledge. This is exactly why I provided diffusion - as a counterexample to his purported knowledge, not to deny the obvious fact that less dense things will rise due to free convective flows. If you want to keep trying to play the smart guy, feel free, but you're wasting your breath.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Velk

The principle you are looking for is convection.

Kid, let me give you a hint: if you want to learn about this stuff, I'll teach it to you, not the other way around. The shortcoming is in your own ability to understand what I was addressing, not my ability to understand the principles of fluid dynamics. The entire point was for me to point out that he did not have the knowledge required to make such judgments - that he was extrapolating outside his area of knowledge. This is exactly why I provided diffusion - as a counterexample to his purported knowledge, not to deny the obvious fact that less dense things will rise due to free convective flows. If you want to keep trying to play the smart guy, feel free, but you're wasting your breath.

*cough*

Originally posted by: CycloWizardActually, that's incorrect. It boils when its vapor pressure equals ambient pressure, not because of density-driven phenomena. But, again, I need to get educated, so maybe you're right.

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

I know that is what starts the boiling process and sets the relative boiling point but I could have sworn the actual steam rising part was a result of it being elss dense than the atmosphere.

Partially correct. However, steam would rise even in a gas of equal density. It would diffuse in all directions in an effort to maximize entropy by minimizing water concentration gradients.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Velk
*cough*

My point.





















Your head.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Nobody is claiming Aliens created planets, animals and plants out of nothing, violating the law of conservation of mass. Aliens are lifeforms on different planets. We know that lifeforms can exist on planets given the right conditions, earth being an example. So we know aliens are possible, it's only a matter of probability. That is more than can be said for God. The possibility of God's existance is not proven.

The Bible never says that God created anything out of nothing. That would be an incorrect interpretation. Substitute "create" in Genesis for the word "organize" and that would be MUCH closer to the meaning in the original Hebrew text. This is well-documented (the Hebrew word "bara" translated into English in the KJV as "create" actually means to "form, fashion, or organize" in Ancient Hebrew). You should try to be more well-versed about the things you seek to condemn. This false belief came out of the fact that Christianity is a Greek religion and that Greek philosophers of ancient days (Aristotle, etc.) believed in a creation from nothing. The Jews did not and never did.

As for the rest of your argument, that is hot air. The possibilities of God and aliens are BOTH neither proven or disproven. They may or may not. I'm not the individual espousing that people have faith in one and not the other.

"There exist lifeforms on planets" is a fact. Proof: we are a lifeform existing on a planet.
So can prove there is a nonzero probability of life existing on a planet. If there was a zero probability, we would not exist.
"There exists a God" is not a fact. It's a belief. You cannot prove that probability that God exists is not zero.

Some people just have far to thick of skulls...

Read throught the thread the obvious flaws in this logic have alread been addressed several times.

 

[VTrider]

It's interesting how most people view mankind and its possible communication/contact with other forms of intelligence in this universe. The setting is almost always physical, e.g - sight, touch - face to face encounters, ect. Interesting, but not really suprising considering the human minds simplistic default view of Reality - "I'll believe it when I see it!" philosophy. One might seriously consider the notion that certian individuals have indeed made mindful contact with other intelligences.