It's interesting the people who say you can not prove God's existence, but you can prove aliens exist, and then use some form of Drake's (ie. using probability as proof) to backup their claim.
When if anything, Drake's and the current state of abiogenesis (which Drake's hinges on) research points more towards the existence of God. To put it simply, if abiogenesis is possible, then aliens are possible but not probable and God is still possible; however, if abiogenesis does not exist then God is not only possible but NECESSARY.
Given a 50/50 chance for abiogenesis even being possible, the odds are better off believing in God over aliens (using the alien-believers reasoning), however, so far all data has pointed towards abiogenesis as NOT being possible.
When if anything, Drake's and the current state of abiogenesis (which Drake's hinges on) research points more towards the existence of God. To put it simply, if abiogenesis is possible, then aliens are possible but not probable and God is still possible; however, if abiogenesis does not exist then God is not only possible but NECESSARY.
Given a 50/50 chance for abiogenesis even being possible, the odds are better off believing in God over aliens (using the alien-believers reasoning), however, so far all data has pointed towards abiogenesis as NOT being possible.
I dont' know, Vic.... If he comes back with a few more negatives....
...I think he'll pwn you. :laugh:
how can you say there's no evidence in God, this world is enought evidence for me, life just doesn't create itself and here's my crazy logic behind that.
the probabilty of me randomly picking my fake first and last name, "turd ferguson" out of a hat of 26 letters is 1 out of 95428956661682176. (pm me if you want me to show you the math)
so, if i can't even pick my freaking name out of a hat in my life time, then how in the world did this Universe create itself. nuf said
supersloth
the probabilty of me randomly picking my fake first and last name, "turd ferguson" out of a hat of 26 letters is 1 out of 95428956661682176. (pm me if you want me to show you the math)
so, if i can't even pick my freaking name out of a hat in my life time, then how in the world did this Universe create itself. nuf said
supersloth
This is easily the greatest first post I've ever seen here, simply based on the use of the ubiquitous alias "Turd Ferguson", let alone the statistical arguments that follow. :beer: and welcome to AT P&N!
I guess if you want to simplify the situation, Most of us don't have PERSONAL
experience with either divinity of any form or extraterrestrial life, yet a large portion of us believe in one or both anyway. A significant portion of those who believe that alien life exists
don't have the knowledge or even have the inclination to gain the knowledge that would allow them to prove/disprove their beliefs. I guess that could be called faith. The vast majority of those who believe that god(s) exist in some form or another believe that the existence of he/she/it/they (GOD) are beyond proving or disproving. I'd say this is definitely faith. The fact that some people fall into both groups is interesting indeed.
I think that there are definite similarities here...
experience with either divinity of any form or extraterrestrial life, yet a large portion of us believe in one or both anyway. A significant portion of those who believe that alien life exists
don't have the knowledge or even have the inclination to gain the knowledge that would allow them to prove/disprove their beliefs. I guess that could be called faith. The vast majority of those who believe that god(s) exist in some form or another believe that the existence of he/she/it/they (GOD) are beyond proving or disproving. I'd say this is definitely faith. The fact that some people fall into both groups is interesting indeed.
I think that there are definite similarities here...
Because your lifetime and mine and the lifetime of the oldest person in the bible multiplied by 1000 is not even a drop in the bucket compared to the age of the universe. Given enough time and energy all sorts of neat stuff can happen.
I didn't say it did, and it's NOT the drake equation, you apparently misunderstand the concept. I didn't say a WORD about it being "probable" that there was life on another planet based on the fact that life exists on earth, just that it is POSSIBLE.
In any case, the existence of LIFE is a proven fact, the existence of GOD is not. Infer what you will from that.
Jason
OK, this is getting absurd. Life=life, OK? Whether plant or animal, intelligent or non intelligent, for the sake of argument let's just assume we mean that something is ALIVE. Whether its intelligent and could make its way here is immaterial for the sake of this argument.
Jason
Belief in God is nice because it's nice to think we can live forever.
Belief in Aliens is nice because it reduces the guilt we all unconsciously feel about the otherwise really sad fact of our also unconscious desire we are hell bent on fulfilling, to destroy ourselves. This unconscious wish, though many would deny its existence, is clearly expressed via projection in all religious end time scenarios.
We must die to come alive, but we chose real death over psychic death of the ego because we fear the latter more. It is this vicarious need for death that will kill us.
Only knowledge can save us and knowledge is the last thing we want.
You will now rationalize away the fact that you were told and dismiss this information as utter tripe. It will be as if it never existed.
Belief in Aliens is nice because it reduces the guilt we all unconsciously feel about the otherwise really sad fact of our also unconscious desire we are hell bent on fulfilling, to destroy ourselves. This unconscious wish, though many would deny its existence, is clearly expressed via projection in all religious end time scenarios.
We must die to come alive, but we chose real death over psychic death of the ego because we fear the latter more. It is this vicarious need for death that will kill us.
Only knowledge can save us and knowledge is the last thing we want.
You will now rationalize away the fact that you were told and dismiss this information as utter tripe. It will be as if it never existed.
Originally posted by: Vic
It might be a problem with some people by I don't think most. No one really knows what is meant by "image". I don't believe in the literal Creation, but either to believe or disbelieve requires faith (listen carefully, Infohawk), so I try to keep my knowledge in that regard to what I can truthfully observe to be factual.
And yeah, I thought about mentioning the greater likelihood of aliens converting us.
It seems we are close, if not the same in our philosophy of religion. I for one can't understand athiests and don't believe that we are all nothing but some sort of a fluke chemical reaction or people who beleive the bible literally. I still believe there is an unseen purpose for for our lives and some type of reckoning at the end of of it. I can't be sure of it, but I can't disprove it either.
I have said that I don't believe in "organized" religions. What I mean by that is I don't believe in religions that claim they are the one, true religion. They can't prove that they are either, so everybody should decide what the truth is based on their own observations. I think religion is and should be an evolving belief system. To let others tell you what to believe is to let others control you.
Some people seem to need someone tell them what to believe and that's fine with me, just don't try and condem me or force your views on me. I have my own thoughts on the matter, thank you very much.
This is actually the crux of the entire debate. It comes down to which mechanism of life's origins you prescribe to - abiogenesis or creation. Neither of these have been directly observed, thus believing in either is simply faith in one theory instead of the other. However, it is possible to believe in both.
Not having directly observed something doesn't mean it's pure faith to assert that life on earth formed from some amino acid mix.
Geez...give it up, already.
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