What is the difference between believing in Aliens and believing in God?

[Vic]

Seriously, I would like to hear this. There is NO evidence for either. I would like to know how people who claim to follow science can speak about the possibility of aliens with a straight face while calling God "a fairy tale" at the same time. To clarify: I'm not defending belief in God (not at all), I am asking to hear a scientifc defense for the belief in aliens, i.e. intelligent alien life.

btw, don't bring up the Drake equation, that is not science.

 

[Arcex]

The universe is a large place, life sprang up on this planet, in the trillions of planets that exist in this universe what are the odds that just one of them will have life grow into a sentient form on it? Good enough for me.

Of course, the odds that those same life forms will find our planet or be able to visit it are remote, plus there is almost no chance those life forms would be anything remotely like life on this planet, or share any common grounds.

 

[conjur]

Roswell, UFOs, etc. all have fueled the stories of aliens on earth and abductions. It's more current and pictures/videos add to the excitement. It's easier for people to believe in something for which there appears to be some evidence (no matter how flimsy).

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Arcex
The universe is a large place, life sprang up on this planet, in the trillions of planets that exist in this universe what are the odds that just one of them will have life grow into a sentient form on it? Good enough for me.

Of course, the odds that those same life forms will find our planet or be able to visit it are remote, plus there is almost no chance those life forms would be anything remotely like life on this planet, or share any common grounds.

Excuse me, your first paragraph is Drake equation in a different form. I won't accept that. We're not gambling here, I'm not accepting odds. Regardless of the size of the universe, it is just as likely that there is only one planet with intelligent life on it (our own) as there are 100 quadrillion planets.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: conjur
Roswell, UFOs, etc. all have fueled the stories of aliens on earth and abductions. It's more current and pictures/videos add to the excitement. It's easier for people to believe in something for which there appears to be some evidence (no matter how flimsy).

Hmm... but Roswell and all the UFO stories are pretty much known to be false. If anything, you could call those stories the "Bible" of belief in Aliens, I would say. Making it that much more like religion.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Vic
Excuse me, your first paragraph is Drake equation in a different form. I won't accept that. We're not gambling here, I'm not accepting odds. Regardless of the size of the universe, it is just as likely that there is only one planet with intelligent life on it (our own) as there are 100 quadrillion planets.

I'm not familiar with the Drake equation, but I'd say that this depends on how you look at it. If you believe in abiogenesis (that life can spontaneously form from the right random combination of chemicals under the right conditions), then sheer probability is a sufficient argument, as you are talking about random events. If you have infinite random events, then all possibilities will occur. The number of times which each occurs will depend on the exact nature of the random occurrence.

That said, I'm not sure how science can support theories of abiogenesis when this phenomenon has never been observed, nor can man produce similar results even under carefully controlled laboratory conditions, despite more than 100 labs worldwide working exclusively to accomplish this for years.

Of course, this is all moot as I worked at the air force base where the Roswell craft and 'critters' are kept. They're pretty cool, and definitely not from Earth.

 

[Vic]

Drake Equation

 

[KK]

Aliens being out there is based on odds, whereas god relies on faith.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: KK
Aliens being out there is based on odds, whereas god relies on faith.

I'm having trouble seeing the difference between odds and faith, especially when the odds are based on purely speculative guesses and not hard science. Sounds a lot like faith to me, like a mathematically-challenged person thinking they can win the lottery just by playing often enough.

 

[Arcex]

With all due respect Vic, I was careful not to mention Drakes work because his equations assigned arbitrary numbers to unknowable variables. I think it is more likely for multiple life forms to spring up somewhere in the universe than to think we are all there is.

And speaking in terms of scientists ability to prove life can form spontaneously, scientists can't explain how the bumblebee can fly, but it still can. If you'll allow me to steal a quote from a movie, "Life finds a way." Scientists know the sequence of amino acids that make up hemoglobin, but they don't know how to make it fold. But put those amino acids together and the hemoglobin folds itself. We don't have to know how something happens to know that it does.

 

[Martin]

There is no evidence for either, but one is more likely than the other.

On one hand we know that the ingredients for life are not unique to earth, we know bacteria can live in extremely harsh conditions and we already have ample evidence of life existing in the universe (ie everythign on earth).
On the other hand we have no evidence of a god or divinity (unless you want to count people who say they've talked with god...in which case you'd have to count all the lunatics who say they've been anally probed by aliens).

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Arcex
With all due respect Vic, I was careful not to mention Drakes work because his equations assigned arbitrary numbers to unknowable variables. I think it is more likely for multiple life forms to spring up somewhere in the universe than to think we are all there is.

And speaking in terms of scientists ability to prove life can form spontaneously, scientists can't explain how the bumblebee can fly, but it still can. If you'll allow me to steal a quote from a movie, "Life finds a way." Scientists know the sequence of amino acids that make up hemoglobin, but they don't know how to make it fold. But put those amino acids together and the hemoglobin folds itself. We don't have to know how something happens to know that it does.

Oh I won't disagree with this. Life does find a way. Good post. But it doesn't stop believing in intelligent alien life from being anything other than faith. Just because we have an understanding into the vigorousness of how life behaves here on earth does not mean that the same behaviors would occur on other planets, especially if life arose independently on each. To think otherwise, we would have to believe.

 

[dmcowen674]

Funny Vic, you use an Alien Avatar.

You apparently have not seen a ship.

Once you have, you will not question.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Martin
There is no evidence for either, but one is more likely than the other.

On one hand we know that the ingredients for life are not unique to earth, we know bacteria can live in extremely harsh conditions and we already have ample evidence of life existing in the universe (ie everythign on earth).
On the other hand we have no evidence of a god or divinity (unless you want to count people who say they've talked with god...in which case you'd have to count all the lunatics who say they've been anally probed by aliens).

This is nothing but a contradiction formed by prejudice if you ask me. In other words, you're guessing and then saying that your guess is better than another guess.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Funny Vic, you use an Alien Avatar.

You apparently have not seen a ship.

Once you have, you will not question.

LOL touche. I hadn't even though of that, as I've never once changed my avatar since the day I joined here. I choose it by process of elimination, meaning that I didn't like all the other avatars.

About seeing the alien ship (which I know [hope] that you were joking), to take that seriously I'm imagine that a religious person who retort that you would feel the same once you felt the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Still... we have no difference.

 

[her209]

There's a big difference. Believing in aliens doesn't require you to believe that everything was created and "controlled" by them.

 

[Yellow Dog]

No one has seen either.
No one has proof that either exist.

However for those with any reasonable thinking capacity, the probability that god(s) exist is a bit of a reach.
The probability that another intelligent being evolved from the primordial soup on some distant planet, and there are billions and billions of other planets, is almost a certainty.

Then there is the blatant arrogance that "we", the highest life form on this planet, believe that "we" are the only intelligent life form in the entire universe. That type of thinking proves that we are not an intelligent life form, only the smartest on this little blue marble.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Funny Vic, you use an Alien Avatar.

You apparently have not seen a ship.

Once you have, you will not question.

LOL touche. I hadn't even though of that, as I've never once changed my avatar since the day I joined here. I choose it by process of elimination, meaning that I didn't like all the other avatars.

About seeing the alien ship (which I know [hope] that you were joking), to take that seriously I'm imagine that a religious person who retort that you would feel the same once you felt the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Still... we have no difference.

Why would I be joking?

I have seen a ship and have documented proof of at least two minutes of missing time.

NUFORC UFO sighting database

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: her209
There's a big difference. Believing in aliens doesn't require you to believe that everything was created and "controlled" by them.

This has been beaten to death. God believers don't believe they are controlled by God. They believe in Free Will. As for the rest of your statement, :roll:

 

[Arcex]

Let me put it this way. I do not believe in any absolutes. I believe anything, ANYTHING, is possible. Do I believe in the possibility that there could be an omnipotent being looking over all we are and all we do? Its possible. Do I think thats actually happening? Nope. Do I believe its possible for life to exist elsewhere in the universe? Its possible, and in this case, mathematically likely. Do I think we have been visited by aliens? Nope.

Its easy to say "If there were aliens out there wouldn't they be as interested in finding us as we are of finding them?" The answer unfortunately is we have no basis for comparison that would allow us to even remotely guess as to what an alien life form that evolved in conditions vastly different from ours would think.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: her209
There's a big difference. Believing in aliens doesn't require you to believe that everything was created and "controlled" by them.

This has been beaten to death. God believers don't believe they are controlled by God. They believe in Free Will. As for the rest of your statement, :roll:

They also believe in God's plan.

 

[OS]

The existence of aliens can/is/will be a testable idea.

Existence of God, well, someone explain to me how to prove that.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Yellow Dog
No one has seen either.
No one has proof that either exist.

However for those with any reasonable thinking capacity, the probability that god(s) exist is a bit of a reach.
The probability that another intelligent being evolved from the primordial soup on some distant planet, and there are billions and billions of other planets, is almost a certainty.

Then there is the blatant arrogance that "we", the highest life form on this planet, believe that "we" are the only intelligent life form in the entire universe. That type of thinking proves that we are not an intelligent life form, only the smartest on this little blue marble.

LOL, you're kidding, right? Your last paragraph is laughable as an emotional plea. An intelligent person believes what can be proven to him by evidence.

So... to sum it up, without having faith in something decidely unscientific like the Drake Equation (or some cleverly disguised variation of), the belief in alien life cannot be justified scientifically or logically.

Just thought I'd point out the hypocrisy to all you fairy tale believers.

 

[Yellow Dog]

Originally posted by: Vic
This has been beaten to death. God believers don't believe they are controlled by God. They believe in Free Will. As for the rest of your statement, :roll:

Far too many do believe that they are controlled by God, though obviously they are not. And when they rise to positions of power .......

 

[Strk]

I'd have to go with anal probes.