What is the appeal of a BMW?

[Kaido]

Just curious. I'm not a huge fan - not in a negative way, just never really cared much for them. But then, I thought the same thing about the Miata too - my neighbor had one and I didn't realize that they were basically super fun-to-drive 160-horsepower go-karts, that it wasn't about having a small, girly sports care and was instead about a fun driving experience that other cars just didn't give you. Beemers have just never really appealed to me, but I have a lot of friends who are super into them and just love their models to death.

So what's the story from your perspective as a BMW lover?

 

[NutBucket]

I've never owned one but their appeal to me is that of a luxurious driver's car. Not sure if there's really a whole lot more to it.

 

[Kaido]

I've never owned one but their appeal to me is that of a luxurious driver's car. Not sure if there's really a whole lot more to it.

So what constitutes a driver's car? I don't have much experience in the $20k+ market aside from my (used) Volvo S80 T6.

 

[MixMasterTang]

So what constitutes a driver's car? I don't have much experience in the $20k+ market aside from my (used) Volvo S80 T6.

Proper manual transmissions, rear wheel drive, good handling, etc.

 

[smackababy]

They seem to be focused more on driving appeal. Rather than being a boring Camry with leather seats, they tend to be more thrilling to drive.

However, given their higher than average price, they also are a status symbol. This has also caused for people to associate them with douche bag drivers. I personally believe this is the case for any M3 owner other than E30 M3s.

They are not bad cars, and definitely worth the premium over some of the "lesser" cars, if you care about driving being more fun than riding lawn mower.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

BMWs tend to be the most driver-focused cars in their respective classes (though one could fairly point out that they have, like other carmakers, been given to adding a lot of features and weight with succeeding generations, which has watered this down somewhat). A 3 series equipped with the Sport package, which I think of as the quintessential BMW model, is about as good on a track as anything short of a true sports car, yet it is a totally practical, competent day-to-day car. BMW's major competitors each have their own focus (i.e., Mercedes is focused on luxury and state-of-the-art gizmos, and Audi is focused on clean designs and AWD safety and stability), but they don't have the consistent focus on the driving experience that BMW does.

Personally, this focus has led me to being a BMW guy. I currently own two and I expect I will always have at least one.

 

[Kaido]

Proper manual transmissions, rear wheel drive, good handling, etc.

Just brought back horrible memories of driving a RWD in the snow

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Just brought back horrible memories of driving a RWD in the snow

I drive a RWD car all winter in Minnesota without any problem. Snow tires and stability/traction control work wonders!

 

[Kaido]

They seem to be focused more on driving appeal. Rather than being a boring Camry with leather seats, they tend to be more thrilling to drive.

However, given their higher than average price, they also are a status symbol. This has also caused for people to associate them with douche bag drivers. I personally believe this is the case for any M3 owner other than E30 M3s.

They are not bad cars, and definitely worth the premium over some of the "lesser" cars, if you care about driving being more fun than riding lawn mower.

Yeah, I understand the status symbol thing. For me at least, that's like the furthest feature I want from me in a car because I'm not a fancy dude, haha. I was pretty content rolling around in my Saturns until they blew up :biggrin:

It is funny how they tend to turn people into jerk drivers. My buddy at work is a super nice guy, but he has a pretty arrogant driving technique in his BMW. Not sure if it's because the car gives you more control & horsepower and creates a sense power in the driver or what, but I've seen that effect on more than one person who owns them. Having never driven one, I can't comment as to the actual effect :twisted:

 

[Kaido]

I drive a RWD car all winter in Minnesota without any problem. Snow tires and stability/traction control work wonders!

Yeah I helped a buddy move and he had an old old old RWD sedan from the 70's or 80's. No traction control, no snow tires. Scary to drive even in the rain!

But boy was it fun in an empty parking lot in the snow :awe:

 

[Vdubchaos]

Same answer as "what is the appeal of Apple products"



HYPE

 

[Eureka]

I don't think BMWs will make anyone a jerk driver. More than likely, people who are arrogant are more attracted to BMWs (and other luxury cars), and after that it's confirmation bias.

That being said, do drive a good-condition BMW. My girlfriend has an X5, and it drives like a dream for being a ~5000 lb SUV. The selling points:

1) Drives and handles extremely well
2) Extremely comfortable
3) Fit and finish are amazing

I've been in Benzes, I've been in Lexuses, but nothing has impressed me to the level of that 5-year-old X5 when I drove it.

And this is the SUV we're talking about. Take the 335i, with a twin-turbo I6 that pulls quarters in the low 13s or better stock, for under $50k. It's a little pricey but the performance is there.

Same answer as "what is the appeal of Apple products"



HYPE

And that hype comes from a great product. Hate on Apple products all you want, but try and find me a laptop with the same build quality as a macbook for less. I haven't found a single laptop with a better trackpad than a macbook, and those retina displays are amazing. Heck, I applaud Apple, if for nothing else, for driving high quality, high resolution screens in laptops.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

And that hype comes from a great product. Hate on Apple products all you want, but try and find me a laptop with the same build quality as a macbook for less. I haven't found a single laptop with a better trackpad than a macbook, and those retina displays are amazing. Heck, I applaud Apple, if for nothing else, for driving high quality, high resolution screens in laptops.

I think there is indeed a parallel between BMW and Apple, and I imagine a Venn diagram of their respective user groups would show that a disproportionally high number of BMW owners also use Apple computers. To me this is because both brands make a product that is more expensive than a lot of mainstream competitors, and that offers a commensurately more pleasant experience. I spend a fair amount of time in my car, for both practical and recreational purposes, and a ton of time on my computer, again for both work and play. I find my Apple products and BMW cars enhance that experience considerably, and in both instances I came to use them after years of experience with other companies' products.

 

[sgrinavi]

For me it's all about they way they feel on the road with great engineering running a close second. I haven't found anything I like as well.

I've had three generations of 3 series - I haven't found another car, it it's class, that feels as nimble and planted. The new one is all that, nicer electronics, more power plus gets insane fuel economy - it's rare when this car sees the highway and we manage to average around 27 mpg "in the city". They all drive nice, but I have to say each successive generation seems to lose a tad in cornering & feedback.

I've had a pair of 135's - great handling car, light and a pure experience - not a lot of gizmos, nice MT, great brakes and tons of power. I actually prefer driving my current one to my C6.

I put about 100,000 miles on my 2003 x5 , I loved that car. Again, simple, powerful, handled more like a sports sedan than an SUV. Drove it through a few pretty significant snow events without ever feeling like I was in over my head. You couldn't get that thing to spin out in the snow. Fantastic fuel economy - I towed a 3000 lb trailer from VA to FL at 80 + MPH and managed to get 18 MPG. Didn't even feel it back there.

As far as what mine have had in common is the clean and simple interiors, they've been reliable & fairly easy to work on.

I can't speak to the high-end models, but for my price range and needs I can't find a better car.

 

[KIAman]

At the time I purchased my BMW (2006 330i Sedan), it was the best blend of comfort, luxury and sport in a RWD or AWD platform. Nothing in its class came even close and I test drove many competitors, for example MB C350 (W203), Infiniti G35, Audi A4 3.2.

All of them had my subjective pros and cons but the BMW had all the pros.

Out of them all, it had the most luxurious ride (sport package too!), the quietest interior, the smoothest transmission, best engine sound, best handling (by far) and best MPG (real world 25mpg compared to 2nd place MB which got 22), the best interior (I prefer simple interiors, the Audi had a tape player, HAHAHA), and external styling. Only the G35 had it beat on a category I cared for, interior room.

On top of that, it had some unique features that I love such as I-6, magnesium hybrid engine, electric water pump, swiveling HIDs, electronic throttle, subwoofer underneath front seats, throttle body-less intake and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember.

So for me, at the time I was purchasing the car, it was the best of all my choices in the categories I cared about. If it turned out to be a chevy that had all this, I would have bought the chevy.

 

[Vdubchaos]

And that hype comes from a great product. Hate on Apple products all you want, but try and find me a laptop with the same build quality as a macbook for less. I haven't found a single laptop with a better trackpad than a macbook, and those retina displays are amazing. Heck, I applaud Apple, if for nothing else, for driving high quality, high resolution screens in laptops.

Track pad? Really? is that what justifies the extreme price hike over equivalent hardware? or is it simply the logo?

There is a dozen (or more) as good if not better laptops on the market than Apple......at fraction of the cost.

You just don't want to look hard enough......and you are probably already DEEP into Apple's way of getting them more business from you.

Cause frankly that's what Apple does well, limit your freedom and force you into their ways.

:biggrin:

As long as you like it, that's all that matters.

 

[smackababy]

Track pad? Really? is that what justifies the extreme price hike over equivalent hardware? or is it simply the logo?

There is a dozen (or more) as good if not better laptops on the market than Apple......at fraction of the cost.

You just don't want to look hard enough......and you are probably already DEEP into Apple's way of getting them more business from you.

Cause frankly that's what Apple does well, limit your freedom and force you into their ways.

:biggrin:

As long as you like it, that's all that matters.

Please do find me a better laptop. And yes, Apple has an excellent trackpad (which most laptops have garbage). Their keyboards are also the best I have ever used.

 

[Eureka]

Track pad? Really? is that what justifies the extreme price hike over equivalent hardware? or is it simply the logo?

There is a dozen (or more) as good if not better laptops on the market than Apple......at fraction of the cost.

You just don't want to look hard enough......and you are probably already DEEP into Apple's way of getting them more business from you.

Cause frankly that's what Apple does well, limit your freedom and force you into their ways.

:biggrin:

As long as you like it, that's all that matters.

Fun fact, I've never owned an Apple product.

I have shopped long and hard to find a "better" laptop than Apple for the same price. Kit me a high-resolution IPS screen, full metal chassis, and good fit and finish. I haven't found it yet. I've played with plenty of ultrabooks and "premium" laptops. An IPS screen will push any equivalent laptop into, at minimum, the $700 range. In fact, find me a laptop with a 1600p IPS display. Bet you can't find one outside of apple and that one chromebook.

Apple is going to be more expensive, but it's not an 'extreme price hike'. It's usually another $100-200 more than an equivalent spec PC. And at the end of the day, better resale value makes up that difference. But if you can, please do find me my dream laptop. I haven't bought a laptop for myself in years because I can't find anything similar. I would go with a macbook but their dGPU offerings are lackluster.

And yes, trackpad (and battery life) matters. I want to be able to just carry a laptop, not a laptop, mouse, and charger.

 

[Kaido]

Track pad? Really? is that what justifies the extreme price hike over equivalent hardware? or is it simply the logo?

There is a dozen (or more) as good if not better laptops on the market than Apple......at fraction of the cost.

You just don't want to look hard enough......and you are probably already DEEP into Apple's way of getting them more business from you.

Cause frankly that's what Apple does well, limit your freedom and force you into their ways.

:biggrin:

As long as you like it, that's all that matters.

I look at cars the same way - what justifies the difference in cost between a BMW and a Kia? They're both pretty similar - seats, wheels, etc. - but one carries the prestige, which increases the pricetag. And yes, there are niceties that go along with the brand - Nappa leather, improved driving performance, etc. but at the end of the day they're both transportation, if that's how you want to look at it. Same with the Mac vs. Windows debate - depends on the experience you want. If you want a Unix-based operating system that is more immune than Windows to viruses & spyware and if you like the unibody metal laptop design, well, there you go. No different than a BMW from that perspective.

Also with the freedom aspect, you're still locked into Windows if you choose Windows. Same with Mac or Linux - you're "locked" into whatever platform you decide to run, so your freedoms are limited no matter what you choose - it's all an illusion

 

[Eureka]

I look at cars the same way - what justifies the difference in cost between a BMW and a Kia? They're both pretty similar - seats, wheels, etc. - but one carries the prestige, which increases the pricetag. And yes, there are niceties that go along with the brand - Nappa leather, improved driving performance, etc. but at the end of the day they're both transportation, if that's how you want to look at it.

That's ultimately the difference. There are people who care for the niceties and want the complete package, and there are people who just want something cheap and something that works.

Where do you want to fall in?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Fair warning, there is lots of BMW hate both on these forums and elsewhere online.


BMWs are built better. They have separate removable suspension subframes which are much more solid than bolting a suspension component to a unibody structure. There is much more thought put into everything from the way the driver's seat feels to the wiring in the engine bay.

They are tuned to a higher level, tend to have better suspension, MUCH better thought out interiors, and are very 'driver/user focused'.


Bottom line is that if you treat your vehicle as an appliance... Simply something to sit in while you leisurely slop along to work every day, then a BMW is not for you.

They are more complicated, thus more expensive, BUT you do get quite a lot for that extra expense.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Also with the freedom aspect, you're still locked into Windows if you choose Windows. Same with Mac or Linux - you're "locked" into whatever platform you decide to run, so your freedoms are limited no matter what you choose - it's all an illusion

Windows gives you certain freedom and doesn't limit your hardware...unlike Apple.

They force you to buy memory......cables etc

You can replace your battery in your Windows device.....unlike Ipads/Ipods

Try using one of the above without Itunes.......

Similar to DLC type of business scheme, once you buy....you have to keep buying.

Windows doesn't' do that....YET. Sure they are not innocent.....

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Fair warning, there is lots of BMW hate both on these forums and elsewhere online.


BMWs are built better. They have separate removable suspension subframes which are much more solid than bolting a suspension component to a unibody structure. There is much more thought put into everything from the way the driver's seat feels to the wiring in the engine bay.

They are tuned to a higher level, tend to have better suspension, MUCH better thought out interiors, and are very 'driver/user focused'.


Bottom line is that if you treat your vehicle as an appliance... Simply something to sit in while you leisurely slop along to work every day, then a BMW is not for you.

They are more complicated, thus more expensive, BUT you do get quite a lot for that extra expense.

Not sure I can buy into this as an example of BMW's superiority, given the huge number of subframe failures they have exhibited on some models (most notably, but not limited to, the E46 M3). I also don't think BMWs (of which I own two) are "built better" than any number of other cars, including pretty much any of their similarly-priced competitors. If they were really "built better" than, say, Lexuses, they would be at least as dependable, but in fact they're nowhere close.

Personally I appreciate BMW's favoring the driving experience over absolute reliability, but I could live without some of their insistence on needlessly overcomplicating some systems and components, leading to premature, costly failures. My E90 has less than 50,000 miles but has needed numerous expensive repairs (including one instance in which - fortunately during the warranty period - the failure of a vapor barrier in the driver's door let water into the subfloor, causing the entire fiber-optic entertainment system, including the stereo, Bluetooth, and even the turn signal clicker, to fail and require a hideously expensive repair). Some of the design choices on these cars (like the fussy, brittle cupholders on the E90) just make me scratch my head . . .

 

[Vdubchaos]

Fair warning, there is lots of BMW hate both on these forums and elsewhere online.

Fair Warning, for every 1 BMW hater there is 10 BMW humpers on this forum and elsewhere on the internet.

BMWs are built better. They have separate removable suspension subframes which are much more solid than bolting a suspension component to a unibody structure. There is much more thought put into everything from the way the driver's seat feels to the wiring in the engine bay.

ROTFLMAO

That's one of the better fanboi explanations I've seen....

They are tuned to a higher level, tend to have better suspension, MUCH better thought out interiors, and are very 'driver/user focused'.

Right, entire Idrive crap or whatever crap they came up with when Bangle ruined their cars was SO driver/user focused.

M cars don't even come with Manual transmissions anymore......

They put more electrical crap into their cars then EVER before.

Bottom line is that if you treat your vehicle as an appliance... Simply something to sit in while you leisurely slop along to work every day, then a BMW is not for you.

They are more complicated, thus more expensive, BUT you do get quite a lot for that extra expense.

German Engineering = overly complex and expensive for no apparent reason.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Not sure I can buy into this as an example of BMW's superiority, given the huge number of subframe failures they have exhibited on some models (most notably, but not limited to, the E46 M3)..

I was just going to post that.....subframe my F'in ass......

Personally I appreciate BMW's favoring the driving experience over absolute reliability, but I could live without some of their insistence on needlessly overcomplicating some systems and components, leading to premature, costly failures. My E90 has less than 50,000 miles but has needed numerous expensive repairs (including one instance in which - fortunately during the warranty period - the failure of a vapor barrier in the driver's door caused the entire entertainment system, including the stereo, Bluetooth, and even the turn signal clicker, to fail and require a hideously expensive repair). Some of the design choices on these cars (like the fussy, brittle cupholders on the E90) just make me scratch my head . . .

Pretty much how I feel. Mostly based on working on my moms/step fathers BMWs past 5+ years and the reason why I say what I say about German Engineering.

They can't get the basics right, YET they put more complicated crap into their cars then ever.

Electronics + German = complete nightmare