Rich and educated definitely don't go hand in hand. Evolution is the result of a freak occurrence, a mutation, not selective breeding. It's possible for two of the dumbest people ever to conceive a superchild, you could probably even argue that the populace that is breeding more has a higher chance of experiencing a mutation, whether or not it's a useful one is the question.
Rich and educated definitely don't go hand in hand. Evolution is the result of a freak occurrence, a mutation, not selective breeding. It's possible for two of the dumbest people ever to conceive a superchild, you could probably even argue that the populace that is breeding more has a higher chance of experiencing a mutation, whether or not it's a useful one is the question.
Throckmorton
Lifer
- Aug 23, 2007
- 16,829
- 3
- 0
Evolution is the result of "selective breeding". That's why it's called natural selection. Mutations aren't necessary for evolution to take place
GasX
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 29,033
- 6
- 81
I have a better analogy that my previous super sperm frweak example.
Evolution is like a big game of Whack-A-Mole. In a population, certain traits show up and sometimes the harsh realities of life smite them down. If a freak mutation causes bizarre health issues, nature is gonna come smiting. But nature sometimes smites good things too - nature doesn't give a flying fvck. Nature is just playing whack-A-Mole and is trying to smack everyone down. Eventually everyone gets whacked.
However, certain traits give people/animals/plants etc an advantage. Either they live longer and have more frequent opportunities to breed or they have a better chance of finding breeding opportunities, or they better take advantage of breeding opportunites they are presented with.
The net result is, everyone and everything gets hit with natures mortality smacking club. But some have better luck reproducing than others before their time comes. Their traits get passed on to future generations and if they do provide a significant advantage will continue to provide better odds of those traits being passed down again.
Also, keep in mind, evolution is not just about mutations. The existing pool of traits and combinations of traits are selected over time resulting in greater proportion of a population displaying certain advantageous traits (such as dark skin in equatorial populations...)
Evolution is like a big game of Whack-A-Mole. In a population, certain traits show up and sometimes the harsh realities of life smite them down. If a freak mutation causes bizarre health issues, nature is gonna come smiting. But nature sometimes smites good things too - nature doesn't give a flying fvck. Nature is just playing whack-A-Mole and is trying to smack everyone down. Eventually everyone gets whacked.
However, certain traits give people/animals/plants etc an advantage. Either they live longer and have more frequent opportunities to breed or they have a better chance of finding breeding opportunities, or they better take advantage of breeding opportunites they are presented with.
The net result is, everyone and everything gets hit with natures mortality smacking club. But some have better luck reproducing than others before their time comes. Their traits get passed on to future generations and if they do provide a significant advantage will continue to provide better odds of those traits being passed down again.
Also, keep in mind, evolution is not just about mutations. The existing pool of traits and combinations of traits are selected over time resulting in greater proportion of a population displaying certain advantageous traits (such as dark skin in equatorial populations...)
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
gibbs free energy is negative
</thread>
oh shut up lawl
if you want to be accurate, make sure that you are at a minima...ie: dG/dP=0 where P is the parameter of interest
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Which makes the mind part of the body as well. What we think of as "the mind" is just large groups of neurons firing together.Originally posted by: Jeff7
The brain is part of the body. The mind resides within the brain as a function of interactions between neurons.
:roll: Careful you don't let too many of your neurons fire together at the same time.
Agreed with you up until that point. While modern medicine may keep a lot of people alive who possibly don't "deserve" to be alive, it also keeps a larger variation in the human population alive. Meaning we are more fit, as a whole, to survive any 1 single catastrophe. Your eye sight may suck, but you may end up resistant to a new strain of virus. In more dangerous times, specialization would be necessary, but specialization sets the species up for common weaknesses.
Originally posted by: Vic
Which makes the mind part of the body as well. What we think of as "the mind" is just large groups of neurons firing together.Originally posted by: Jeff7
The brain is part of the body. The mind resides within the brain as a function of interactions between neurons.
:roll: Careful you don't let too many of your neurons fire together at the same time.
I'm impressed you didn't say too many fat cells. You can't seem to tell the difference between the two.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
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Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Originally posted by: Vic
Which makes the mind part of the body as well. What we think of as "the mind" is just large groups of neurons firing together.Originally posted by: Jeff7
The brain is part of the body. The mind resides within the brain as a function of interactions between neurons.
:roll: Careful you don't let too many of your neurons fire together at the same time.
I'm impressed you didn't say too many fat cells. You can't seem to tell the difference between the two.
Are you just trolling or something?
Safeway
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2004
- 12,075
- 11
- 81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Originally posted by: Vic
Which makes the mind part of the body as well. What we think of as "the mind" is just large groups of neurons firing together.Originally posted by: Jeff7
The brain is part of the body. The mind resides within the brain as a function of interactions between neurons.
:roll: Careful you don't let too many of your neurons fire together at the same time.
I'm impressed you didn't say too many fat cells. You can't seem to tell the difference between the two.
Are you just trolling or something?
He is always trolling.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,205
- 45
- 91
I'm just saying that we fvcked up the natural selection process. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to the eye of the beholder.
Gooberlx2
Lifer
- May 4, 2001
- 15,381
- 6
- 91
Well....evolution has no "aim". "Fittest" means the most able to survive, reproduce and adapt given the environment and circumstances, regardless of whether that means brain or brawn.
Paradoxically, evolution can also lead to the end for any given species/genetic line, especially when there's a sudden shift in environmental parameters.
GasX
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 29,033
- 6
- 81
Evolution is not purpose driven. It is not designed to result in an optimized species. It is a cold unfeeling thing that only cares about what works today. If a killer virus shows up tomorrow that takes out 90% of the population, noone will care about bad eyesight, laziness and premature balding... Killer virus resistance will be the most important trait to have... If that virus never shows up, killer virus resistance serves no purpose.
That is actually a good demonstration why a diverse population is advantageous for the species as a whole - better chance of killer virus resistance being present in someone when the big one shows up...
DangerAardvark
Diamond Member
- Oct 22, 2004
- 7,559
- 0
- 0
It's good. Unequivocally good. You'd have to be a pretty pessimistic beholder to interpret modern medicine saving countless lives throughout the centuries as bad.
We've been playing God since the dawn of agriculture. We're now in a position to influence our own evolution directly and have indeed been doing it indirectly for thousands of years. And quality of life keeps getting better and better as a result.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
I already said that.Originally posted by: Vic
Which makes the mind part of the body as well. What we think of as "the mind" is just large groups of neurons firing together.Originally posted by: Jeff7
The brain is part of the body. The mind resides within the brain as a function of interactions between neurons.
Is data on a hard drive "part" of the hard drive? Or is it a separate entity? In one sense, the particles are part of the hard drive, as is their magnetic orientation. But once the summation of those orientations is tabulated, it becomes data. Is that data a property truly inherent to the drive?
But that could just be a symantical argument anyway.
It could also be that we've redefined "fittest." A remora by itself isn't much good, and probably won't last long. Latch it onto a messy eater, and a powerful fish, like a shark, and suddenly that remora is a survivor. Is the shark guilty of allowing a genetically weak creature to survive?
Evolution will still occur in humans, but not purely evolution as the sort aimless process found in nature. Its direction is up to us now, whether we actively give it a destination or not.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,205
- 45
- 91
Hey, I'll be the first to admit it's good from my perspective. I wouldn't be here if our species was still on an entirely natural selection in the wild side type of existence.
There are people out there that would disagree though.
People that think we should still be on a survival of the fittest type of species where physical strength is often seen as the most important factor.
People that see the current state of technology, economics, politics, etc. as our "environment" now and don't like seeing that the most "successful" (economically, politically, etc.) individuals are not the same people that are "successful" biologically.
(No social welfare programs, help for the poor, etc. would help them realize their vision of only the most "successful" surviving)
People that see "weaker" / "less fit" individuals as a drag on humanity. As in "why should I have to worry about this guy in a wheelchair or someone with cerebral palsy when they're not contributing to society".
Ok, I'm on the side that genetic variation is a good thing. There are people out there that don't agree that helping out the "weak" is beneficial.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,580
- 982
- 126
The aim of evolution is to explain how life on this planet has evolved over the hundreds of millions of years it has been in existance. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
Simple huh?
Simple huh?
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Originally posted by: Vic
Which makes the mind part of the body as well. What we think of as "the mind" is just large groups of neurons firing together.Originally posted by: Jeff7
The brain is part of the body. The mind resides within the brain as a function of interactions between neurons.
:roll: Careful you don't let too many of your neurons fire together at the same time.
I'm impressed you didn't say too many fat cells. You can't seem to tell the difference between the two.
Are you just trolling or something?
Why would he be trolling? One can hardly be religious without being a dualist and thinking that the mind (or "soul" or whatever they wanna call it) is separate from the body.
Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,296
- 16
- 81
I would argue against this. Natural selection is still working among humans, it's just that we have modified the environment to our advantage so that combinations that would not have survived to breed previously can now do so. If the environment changes (i.e. civilization collapses, etc.) to some new, possibly harsher and more restrictive, environment, then people unsuited to the new environment may find it more difficult to breed.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,205
- 45
- 91
Yeah, it depends on how you interpret environment and "natural selection".
See my updated post up a few.
I think it's safe to say that "Natural Selection" for humans at this point has a lot of differences compared to "Natural Selection" for wild animals which is what I was getting at with my "fvcked up" description of what we've done to it, but yeah, there are still evolutionary processes going on for our species. We've changed the requirements quite a bit though for who survives and who is able to breed through our own ingenuity vs. the rest of the natural world though. (Medicine, fertility clinics, etc.) which is where I would make the case that it's not so "Natural" of a selection process anymore. Again, depends on what you're taking "Natural Selection" to mean.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
You're probably right here (about what Jules was saying), but I've heard more than one top scientist refer to the evolution of the life as the process of the universe becoming aware of itself. We are the dust of the stars and the water of the oceans. The mud rises up and looks back to the heavens.
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