What is so terrible about targeted marketing?

[pinion9]

I subscribe to certain newsletters with good deals (buy.com, newegg.) I like getting those e-mails in case they have something I need/want. I bet most of you here do something similar.

In that same vein, I don't mind targeted ads. Why do I want to see an ad for Downy when I would never buy something of the sort? If I had my way, all ads would be targeted for me (well, given the choice of random ads or targeted ads. No ads are the best.)

This brings me to my point: I don't care what information people collect about my purchasing habits so they can target my lifestyle. Why does everyone else? The reason I bring this up is because of BF:2142. There are supposed to be ads in the game (probably to help with production costs.) If there are ads in the game, what is wrong with them targeting my taste? Furthermore, there is no personally identifiable information (to the point where someone could say "Hmmm...<real name> likes buying hard drives...") so why does it REALLY matter if they collect information on what I like?

Yes, the little piece of paper that comes out of the box basically states that information may be mined, but cannot be resolved back to you (unless, of course, they use your IP and trace it back through the ISP with a warrant....)

To make the post longer: on that note, couldn't one just find out what hostname the information is being sent to a change the lmhost to send to a different address (such as 127.0.0.1)?

 

[mercanucaribe]

If "they" know you're buying hard drives, the terrorists win.

 

[BigLouis]

Their model sucks.

You pay full going price for a game, you don't get ads.

You pay a discounted price, put up with game ads. I bet if the discount were substantial many people would buy the discounted game.

DVD's should NOT have ads in them since I paid for the product.

Movies should NOT have ads for 15 minutes before the show since I paid full price. The tired argument will be made to go see the movie when it starts, but I have my favorite seats.

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: pinion9
I subscribe to certain newsletters with good deals (buy.com, newegg.) I like getting those e-mails in case they have something I need/want. I bet most of you here do something similar.

In that same vein, I don't mind targeted ads. Why do I want to see an ad for Downy when I would never buy something of the sort? If I had my way, all ads would be targeted for me (well, given the choice of random ads or targeted ads. No ads are the best.)

This brings me to my point: I don't care what information people collect about my purchasing habits so they can target my lifestyle. Why does everyone else? The reason I bring this up is because of BF:2142. There are supposed to be ads in the game (probably to help with production costs.) If there are ads in the game, what is wrong with them targeting my taste? Furthermore, there is no personally identifiable information (to the point where someone could say "Hmmm...<real name> likes buying hard drives...") so why does it REALLY matter if they collect information on what I like?

Yes, the little piece of paper that comes out of the box basically states that information may be mined, but cannot be resolved back to you (unless, of course, they use your IP and trace it back through the ISP with a warrant....)

To make the post longer: on that note, couldn't one just find out what hostname the information is being sent to a change the lmhost to send to a different address (such as 127.0.0.1)?

It's none of their business, and most importably they didn't ask. If there was an option to turn it on or off, that'd be fine, and I'd buy the game. But they aren't giving me the choice as to whether or not I want them scanning my PC, so I made the choice not to buy it. I had every intention of dropping the money on it too, until I found that out.

 

[So]

If I pay full price for the game, and EA isn't hosting anything more than a nameserver, then I shouldn't be have to look at ads. I wasn't too excited about 2142, but me paying them for a game and then having them shovel ads at me anyway sealed the deal. I bought 1942, BF:V, and BF2 and I'm not going to touch 2142 with a ten foot pole.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: BigLouis
Their model sucks.

You pay full going price for a game, you don't get ads.

You pay a discounted price, put up with game ads. I bet if the discount were substantial many people would buy the discounted game.

DVD's should NOT have ads in them since I paid for the product.

Movies should NOT have ads for 15 minutes before the show since I paid full price. The tired argument will be made to go see the movie when it starts, but I have my favorite seats.

Yes, but with game production costs in the 5-10 million range, they need to make money somehow. Raising game prices much higher would be a mistake and would alienate the under 18 crowd. I am not talking about the current trend of where ads are. But if one MUST watch ads, wouldn't you rather them be relevant ads that fit your taste instead of comepletely random ads? I don't think I need to see an ad for hearing aids or mattresses. I would rather see ads for technology.

 

[RichUK]

The demo wasn't all that IMO, so i'm not too bothered about purchasing it.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: So
If I pay full price for the game, and EA isn't hosting anything more than a nameserver, then I shouldn't be have to look at ads. I wasn't too excited about 2142, but me paying them for a game and then having them shovel ads at me anyway sealed the deal. I bought 1942, BF:V, and BF2 and I'm not going to touch 2142 with a ten foot pole.

I haven't seen screenshots of the ads and haven't played multiplayer yet. What do they look like?

Are you doing this more on principle (i.e. how dare they give me ads in a game I paid for) or more based on paranoia (i.e. how dare they data mine me)?

 

[purbeast0]

part of the reason i stopped playing NFSU2 was because I couldn't drive 10 feet without seeing a best buy or burger king.

i then proceeded to go to best buy, eating a whopper on the way home

 

[So]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: So
If I pay full price for the game, and EA isn't hosting anything more than a nameserver, then I shouldn't be have to look at ads. I wasn't too excited about 2142, but me paying them for a game and then having them shovel ads at me anyway sealed the deal. I bought 1942, BF:V, and BF2 and I'm not going to touch 2142 with a ten foot pole.

I haven't seen screenshots of the ads and haven't played multiplayer yet. What do they look like?

Are you doing this more on principle (i.e. how dare they give me ads in a game I paid for) or more based on paranoia (i.e. how dare they data mine me)?

Principle. I'm slightly concerned that they might abuse the power, but I think it's probable that they're being honest about that and the data won't be linked to identity.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: jtusa

Originally posted by: pinion9
I subscribe to certain newsletters with good deals (buy.com, newegg.) I like getting those e-mails in case they have something I need/want. I bet most of you here do something similar.

In that same vein, I don't mind targeted ads. Why do I want to see an ad for Downy when I would never buy something of the sort? If I had my way, all ads would be targeted for me (well, given the choice of random ads or targeted ads. No ads are the best.)

This brings me to my point: I don't care what information people collect about my purchasing habits so they can target my lifestyle. Why does everyone else? The reason I bring this up is because of BF:2142. There are supposed to be ads in the game (probably to help with production costs.) If there are ads in the game, what is wrong with them targeting my taste? Furthermore, there is no personally identifiable information (to the point where someone could say "Hmmm...<real name> likes buying hard drives...") so why does it REALLY matter if they collect information on what I like?

Yes, the little piece of paper that comes out of the box basically states that information may be mined, but cannot be resolved back to you (unless, of course, they use your IP and trace it back through the ISP with a warrant....)

To make the post longer: on that note, couldn't one just find out what hostname the information is being sent to a change the lmhost to send to a different address (such as 127.0.0.1)?

It's none of their business, and most importably they didn't ask. If there was an option to turn it on or off, that'd be fine, and I'd buy the game. But they aren't giving me the choice as to whether or not I want them scanning my PC, so I made the choice not to buy it. I had every intention of dropping the money on it too, until I found that out.

I didn't read anything about them actually scanning your PC. What information, specifically, are they gathering? I would be interested to set up a packet sniffer and see exactly what is being sent.

 

[brikis98]

like you, i have no problem with targeted ads. if we could select what our interests were, or only have ads if the price of the game was discounted, or generally, ANY CHOICE ABOUT IT WHATSOEVER, i'd be ok with it. but, from what i understand, all you get is a piece of paper INSIDE the box that warns you about it. by the time you read it, if you don't want to accept it, you probably won't be able to return the game (open box policy).

moreover, the notice doesn't really state what info they are collecting. i mean, for all we know, they have key loggers, are scanning our cookies, looking at our private files, etc... obviously, it's VERY unlikely that it's that extreme, but if they want my permission to collect info about me, they damn well better state exactly what info is being collected. this spyware crap could also cause slow downs and other issues on the computer and who knows what vulnerabilities junk like that might be opening up.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
part of the reason i stopped playing NFSU2 was because I couldn't drive 10 feet without seeing a best buy or burger king.

i then proceeded to go to best buy, eating a whopper on the way home

I haven't played it. I feel that a certain amount of real advertising (e.g. a burger king billboard) can bring realism to a game. It sounds like that game had them at every intersection, which would be irritating.

Would you spend $100 on a game to rid it of advertising?

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: pinion9
In that same vein, I don't mind targeted ads. Why do I want to see an ad for Downy when I would never buy something of the sort? If I had my way, all ads would be targeted for me (well, given the choice of random ads or targeted ads. No ads are the best.)

I don't mind targeted ads. I mind ads in general. I'd rather they be targeted than not, but I'd rather not have to see them in the first place, ever.

This brings me to my point: I don't care what information people collect about my purchasing habits so they can target my lifestyle. Why does everyone else?

I don't mind, as long as I benefit in some tangible way. The supermarket cards that get you discounts do the very same thing...but they get you DISCOUNTS, and targeted coupons...more discounts. Their goal is to get you in their store rather that someone else's, but if they have the best prices for the stuff I buy, it's a win-win.

The reason I bring this up is because of BF:2142. There are supposed to be ads in the game (probably to help with production costs.)

But they're not helping with production costs. BF2142 is essentially a mod. It shouldnt have required much production to begin with, and the game is certainly no cheaper.

If there are ads in the game, what is wrong with them targeting my taste?

The problem mostly isnt with the targeting, it's with the ads in the first place. They do not benefit the gamer in any way whatsoever (for 2142, at least). The software used to monitor the effectives of the ads MUST USE SOME of your cpu cycles, no matter how little. The ads are unique, probably high res textures, and are going to be sucking away your video ram and fillrate, for absolutely NO BENEFIT to you.

Furthermore, there is no personally identifiable information (to the point where someone could say "Hmmm...<real name> likes buying hard drives...") so why does it REALLY matter if they collect information on what I like?

It's not what they're doing, its the way theyre doing it. They could have just *asked* you to click a few boxes as to what you like. But they decided they'd rather steal your CPU cycles instead. In theory, anyway - thats not exactly what theyre doing with 2142.

Yes, the little piece of paper that comes out of the box basically states that information may be mined, but cannot be resolved back to you (unless, of course, they use your IP and trace it back through the ISP with a warrant....)

You just answered your own question. Again, there is no benefit whatsoever for the gamer.

They could have said - the game costs $50. Want ads? Up to you. Wouldn't have bothered many people. Most everyone who cared would turn them off, and theyrd be no outcry.

They could have said - the game costs $50 without ads. Deal with a few ads, maybe a little spyware, and save $10-20. The decision is yours. Fair enough. I might even jump for that, because I tangibly benefit. It's a win-win.

What they did say - The game costs $50. Now that you've already bought it, we'd like you to know that you're going to see ads. You are not going to get anything in return for this. Furthermore, we are going to install spyware on your computer. We're going to log your IP. We're going to use your CPU, to determine how effective our ads are from stealing your attention away from the actual game, so we can make them even more annoying in the future.Got a problem with this? Return the game - oh, whats that, you cant? Oh well, guess you're stuck now huh? Muhahahaha! By the way, did you know if you still want to install the game, you're going to have to disable a *critical* security fix, and blow your firewall WIDE open? Oh well, we got your money already. Enjoy! EA wins, gamer loses.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: brikis98
like you, i have no problem with targeted ads. if we could select what our interests were, or only have ads if the price of the game was discounted, or generally, ANY CHOICE ABOUT IT WHATSOEVER, i'd be ok with it. but, from what i understand, all you get is a piece of paper INSIDE the box that warns you about it. by the time you read it, if you don't want to accept it, you probably won't be able to return the game (open box policy). moreover, the notice implies that they are collecting info about you, which, without my permission, is an invasion of privacy. it could also cause slow downs and other issues on the computer and who knows what vulnerabilities junk like that might be opening up.

Have you read the slip? It doesn't say anything about collecting info about you. I read it (albeit while driving ) and from what I gleamed it was more interested in providing information to IGA about the effectiveness of the ads.

Slow downs would be non-existant unless they actively scan files while actually playing the game (seriously doubt it.) Vulnerabilities? I guess doing a man-in-the-middle attack or ARP poisoning could put the information in someone elses hands. However, it does state that no personally identifiable information is sent (only IP address.) This does imply that one could go to the ISP and ask "Who had 3.4.5.6 on this date?" However, that can't information is privileged.

 

[BigLouis]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: So
If I pay full price for the game, and EA isn't hosting anything more than a nameserver, then I shouldn't be have to look at ads. I wasn't too excited about 2142, but me paying them for a game and then having them shovel ads at me anyway sealed the deal. I bought 1942, BF:V, and BF2 and I'm not going to touch 2142 with a ten foot pole.

I haven't seen screenshots of the ads and haven't played multiplayer yet. What do they look like?

Are you doing this more on principle (i.e. how dare they give me ads in a game I paid for) or more based on paranoia (i.e. how dare they data mine me)?

That was an awful start of a thread since you aren't even aware of how intrusive they may be.
Why would you make a thread about something you obviously know nothing about?

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: purbeast0
part of the reason i stopped playing NFSU2 was because I couldn't drive 10 feet without seeing a best buy or burger king.

i then proceeded to go to best buy, eating a whopper on the way home

I haven't played it. I feel that a certain amount of real advertising (e.g. a burger king billboard) can bring realism to a game. It sounds like that game had them at every intersection, which would be irritating.

Would you spend $100 on a game to rid it of advertising?

it can bring realism ... when its realistic. like in the NBA games, when you see the banners on the broadcasters booth changing ... that ads realism. when you see a best buy at every corner next a burger king (im not talkin about billboards, actual stores in the city in the game) it is fake because there are these stores on like every block.

i personally don't care about the realistic stuff. like if i'm driving on a highway in Outrun or something, and I see billboards, that would be cool. or if I see Tiger Woods wearing a nike hat in his golf game, that's fine too.

and no i wouldnt pay $100 to rid of advertisements. why pay $100 for that when I can pay $50 for games that don't advertise already?

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Would you be comfortable if someone followed you around all the time and wrote down what you were looking at and what you bought?

 

[So]

Originally posted by: BigLouis

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: So
If I pay full price for the game, and EA isn't hosting anything more than a nameserver, then I shouldn't be have to look at ads. I wasn't too excited about 2142, but me paying them for a game and then having them shovel ads at me anyway sealed the deal. I bought 1942, BF:V, and BF2 and I'm not going to touch 2142 with a ten foot pole.

I haven't seen screenshots of the ads and haven't played multiplayer yet. What do they look like?

Are you doing this more on principle (i.e. how dare they give me ads in a game I paid for) or more based on paranoia (i.e. how dare they data mine me)?

That was an awful start of a thread since you aren't even aware of how intrusive they may be.
Why would you make a thread about something you obviously know nothing about?

Because he was curious. Why should anyone ever ask any questions? What pricks! They're wasting my time wanting to know stuff! :|

 

[Inspector Jihad]

people need to chill the fvck out...who gives a fvck if they know what i'm buying or what i'm interested in buying.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
part of the reason i stopped playing NFSU2 was because I couldn't drive 10 feet without seeing a best buy or burger king.

i then proceeded to go to best buy, eating a whopper on the way home

I actually didnt mind that. It makes it more realistic instead of seeing Bob's Taco Hut, or Joe's Electronics every other block.

 

[ballmode]

EA is ripping us off.


Full price for a game to see ads. PUH LEEEZ

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: brikis98
like you, i have no problem with targeted ads. if we could select what our interests were, or only have ads if the price of the game was discounted, or generally, ANY CHOICE ABOUT IT WHATSOEVER, i'd be ok with it. but, from what i understand, all you get is a piece of paper INSIDE the box that warns you about it. by the time you read it, if you don't want to accept it, you probably won't be able to return the game (open box policy). moreover, the notice implies that they are collecting info about you, which, without my permission, is an invasion of privacy. it could also cause slow downs and other issues on the computer and who knows what vulnerabilities junk like that might be opening up.

Have you read the slip? It doesn't say anything about collecting info about you. I read it (albeit while driving ) and from what I gleamed it was more interested in providing information to IGA about the effectiveness of the ads.

Slow downs would be non-existant unless they actively scan files while actually playing the game (seriously doubt it.) Vulnerabilities? I guess doing a man-in-the-middle attack or ARP poisoning could put the information in someone elses hands. However, it does state that no personally identifiable information is sent (only IP address.) This does imply that one could go to the ISP and ask "Who had 3.4.5.6 on this date?" However, that can't information is privileged.

i actually edited my original post for clarity, but anyways...

i read online what the slip says, but i'm not sure if it was accurate. if you'd post it (or have a link to it), that would be greatly appreciated. like i said before, however, that slip should be on the OUTSIDE of the box so you know about it BEFORE you buy. and, if it doesn't explicitly say what information they are gathering (which is their responsibility), then i am justified in assuming the worst

as for slow downs, obviously, any extra processes (spyware or otherwise) running on your computer (NOT while gaming) will eat up some RAM and CPU cycles. i don't know if it will be noticeable, but i personally like to control exactly what runs on my computer, and spyware doesn't let me do that.

as for vulnerabilities... in order to send/receive info, they are opening ports on your computer... if they aren't careful with that, a wise hacker could use that to break in, or cause buffer overflows and as you said, MIM attacks. and again, unless they EXPLICITLY state EXACTLY what info is sent/received, you don't know if intercepting that info is useful or not.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: pinion9
In that same vein, I don't mind targeted ads. Why do I want to see an ad for Downy when I would never buy something of the sort? If I had my way, all ads would be targeted for me (well, given the choice of random ads or targeted ads. No ads are the best.)

I don't mind targeted ads. I mind ads in general. I'd rather they be targeted than not, but I'd rather not have to see them in the first place, ever.

This brings me to my point: I don't care what information people collect about my purchasing habits so they can target my lifestyle. Why does everyone else?

I don't mind, as long as I benefit in some tangible way. The supermarket cards that get you discounts do the very same thing...but they get you DISCOUNTS, and targeted coupons...more discounts. Their goal is to get you in their store rather that someone else's, but if they have the best prices for the stuff I buy, it's a win-win.

The reason I bring this up is because of BF:2142. There are supposed to be ads in the game (probably to help with production costs.)

But they're not helping with production costs. BF2142 is essentially a mod. It shouldnt have required much production to begin with, and the game is certainly no cheaper.

If there are ads in the game, what is wrong with them targeting my taste?

The problem mostly isnt with the targeting, it's with the ads in the first place. They do not benefit the gamer in any way whatsoever (for 2142, at least). The software used to monitor the effectives of the ads MUST USE SOME of your cpu cycles, no matter how little. The ads are unique, probably high res textures, and are going to be sucking away your video ram and fillrate, for absolutely NO BENEFIT to you.

Furthermore, there is no personally identifiable information (to the point where someone could say "Hmmm...<real name> likes buying hard drives...") so why does it REALLY matter if they collect information on what I like?

It's not what they're doing, its the way theyre doing it. They could have just *asked* you to click a few boxes as to what you like. But they decided they'd rather steal your CPU cycles instead. In theory, anyway - thats not exactly what theyre doing with 2142.

Yes, the little piece of paper that comes out of the box basically states that information may be mined, but cannot be resolved back to you (unless, of course, they use your IP and trace it back through the ISP with a warrant....)

You just answered your own question. Again, there is no benefit whatsoever for the gamer.

They could have said - the game costs $50. Want ads? Up to you. Wouldn't have bothered many people. Most everyone who cared would turn them off, and theyrd be no outcry.

They could have said - the game costs $50 without ads. Deal with a few ads, maybe a little spyware, and save $10-20. The decision is yours. Fair enough. I might even jump for that, because I tangibly benefit. It's a win-win.

What they did say - The game costs $50. Now that you've already bought it, we'd like you to know that you're going to see ads. You are not going to get anything in return for this. Furthermore, we are going to install spyware on your computer. We're going to log your IP. We're going to use your CPU, to determine how effective our ads are from stealing your attention away from the actual game. Got a problem with this? Return the game - oh, whats that, you cant? Oh well, guess you're stuck now huh? Muhahahaha! EA wins, gamer loses.

2142 a mod? New textures, new maps, new weapons, nothing of the old. Would you consider any game using a previously developed engine a mod? Is Call Of Duty a mod of Quake 3, since they use the same engine?

So, it comes back to the illusion of choice. Has anyone seen the ads in game? I haven't gotten to see them yet. As for Spyware, by the loose definition anything that mines data could be considered spyware. Hell, a web page that simply reads your cookies to see if you visited Amazon could be considered spyware, no?

While I do agree they should have just given you checkboxes, I believe they are more interested in reporting if their ads are working (e.g. display an ad for best buy, check to see if you visited bestbuy.com afterwards.) This couldn't be done without checking index.dat or cookies. It sounds as if it may be a pay per click deal. Agency places ad in game, you go there, they pay EA. Or they are doing this on a trial basis to see if it is worth the money.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: purbeast0
part of the reason i stopped playing NFSU2 was because I couldn't drive 10 feet without seeing a best buy or burger king.

i then proceeded to go to best buy, eating a whopper on the way home

I haven't played it. I feel that a certain amount of real advertising (e.g. a burger king billboard) can bring realism to a game. It sounds like that game had them at every intersection, which would be irritating.

Would you spend $100 on a game to rid it of advertising?

it can bring realism ... when its realistic. like in the NBA games, when you see the banners on the broadcasters booth changing ... that ads realism. when you see a best buy at every corner next a burger king (im not talkin about billboards, actual stores in the city in the game) it is fake because there are these stores on like every block.

i personally don't care about the realistic stuff. like if i'm driving on a highway in Outrun or something, and I see billboards, that would be cool. or if I see Tiger Woods wearing a nike hat in his golf game, that's fine too.

and no i wouldnt pay $100 to rid of advertisements. why pay $100 for that when I can pay $50 for games that don't advertise already?

Absolutely agreed. A NASCAR game wouldn't seem right if the cars weren't covered from to back with ads. I have no problem with that whatsoever. The ads serve to enhance immersion, rather than take it away. It end's up being a win-win.

But ads for pepsi (and yes, there actually are in 2142), on a billboard in a war torn battlefield, taking place in the year 2142, just does not seem right. It removes you from the game. Maybe if they had a little fun with it, and had ads for pepsi 2142, the 2143 honda civic etc, it would be a little more tolerable. But especially when they are actively trying to find the best places to inundate you with them, rather than have them blend into the background, its absolutely ridiculous.