What is so bad about profiling?

[her209]

Now cops can make you prove your here legally.

Only a court can make you prove you're here legally.

 

[her209]

So you're arguing that you can't "profile" based on language? LMAO!! If your in this country and can't speak English then the chances you are here illegally skyrocket IMO.

LMAO indeed. Good luck catching those that came into this country on student visa, work visa, etc.

 

[bamacre]

Some people care more about offending others than they do about their safety or the likelihood that others are following the law.

And some people understand trading liberty for security will result with having neither.

 

[nobodyknows]

Only a court can make you prove you're here legally.

If you can't produce your green card then the cop can arrest you and make you go to court, so cops can make you prove you're here legally.

 

[nobodyknows]

LMAO indeed. Good luck catching those that came into this country on student visa, work visa, etc.

I didn't say it would catch everyone, did I. I am just saying it's a flag that's not based on race.

 

[nobodyknows]

And some people understand trading liberty for security will result with having neither.

If we have a goverment that picks and chooses which laws it want's to enforce then we have neither liberty or security.

 

[Trell]

If you can't produce your green card then the cop can arrest you and make you go to court, so cops can make you prove you're here legally.

What if you are of hispanic descent and are a natural born US citizen. You speak with an accent because your parents speak spanish. You are walking down the street and a police officer legally stops you for jay walking. He then asks to see your papers, but you do not have a license on you. He is now asking a US CITIZEN to prove his citizenship, which is something you cannot prove.

This is the problem with this law.

 

[nobodyknows]

What if you are of hispanic descent and are a natural born US citizen. You speak with an accent because your parents speak spanish. You are walking down the street and a police officer legally stops you for jay walking. He then asks to see your papers, but you do not have a license on you. He is now asking a US CITIZEN to prove his citizenship, which is something you cannot prove.

This is the problem with this law.

Talking with an accent /= speaking no or very poor English. I know people who still have a brogue 3 and 4 generations removed from imigration.

As far as the AZ law goes, they can't stop you without a reason. It's easy to prove your citizenship, a certified copy of your birth certificate is all you need. I had to provide one to get my drivers license.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/A4eng.pdf

 

[Trell]

Do you carry your certified copy of your birth certificate at all times? Do you even carry your drivers license at ALL times? The point everyone is making here is that normally in the US a citizen is NOT REQUIRED to carry ID at all times. So you could easily be legally detained for something, Jaywalking, littering, riding a bike on the wrong side of the road, etc. etc., and not have any ID on you and this is completely legal. Now if you are stopped for anything such as this as a US citizen the cops will ask for ID and if you do not have it they will assume the person is illegal and it will be a big issue. If you do not understand this issue when it is plainly spelled out to you then there is no reason to continue.

 

[heyheybooboo]

What if you are of hispanic descent and are a natural born US citizen. You speak with an accent because your parents speak spanish. You are walking down the street and a police officer legally stops you for jay walking. He then asks to see your papers, but you do not have a license on you. He is now asking a US CITIZEN to prove his citizenship, which is something you cannot prove.

This is the problem with this law.

The moral of that story: Don't jaywalk.

Mind your own bidness. Surprisingly, we still have an expectation of privacy in this country.

The over-riding issue is that no one in their right mind should expect law enforcement to act responsibly in these matters. Sorry, but that's the way it is.




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[Paul98]

Profiling is a great tool if the profile is good enough. It's racial profiling that people complain about and with good reason. The percentage vs the whole is just too small to make that type of profiling worth anything.

 

[soulcougher73]

Profiling is a great tool if the profile is good enough. It's racial profiling that people complain about and with good reason. The percentage vs the whole is just too small to make that type of profiling worth anything.

While i agree with exactly what you said i dont think most people profile based on race or skin color alone. There are always many factors involved in profiling. Cloths, behavior, manorisms, location etc. When factoring in everything as you said its a great tool, but i think most people do that anyways already.

 

[DougoMan]

Also being profiled in an Airport security line is much different than being subject to profiling in your home town.

You voluntarily give up your rights when you step on a plane imo.

 

[Fern]

Do you carry your certified copy of your birth certificate at all times? Do you even carry your drivers license at ALL times? The point everyone is making here is that normally in the US a citizen is NOT REQUIRED to carry ID at all times. So you could easily be legally detained for something, Jaywalking, littering, riding a bike on the wrong side of the road, etc. etc., and not have any ID on you and this is completely legal. Now if you are stopped for anything such as this as a US citizen the cops will ask for ID and if you do not have it they will assume the person is illegal and it will be a big issue. If you do not understand this issue when it is plainly spelled out to you then there is no reason to continue.

If a cop stops you for "Jaywalking, littering, riding a bike on the wrong side of the road, etc. etc." they still want to see your ID. They can't give a ticket without knowing your ID.

As far as your immigration status, all they need is your SS# and name.

Fern

 

[jackschmittusa]

For a jaywalking violation, I'm required to provide my name. Nothing else. It is not illegal for a citizen to be without ID. I can mail in my fine without going to court.

 

[xj0hnx]

Do you carry your certified copy of your birth certificate at all times? Do you even carry your drivers license at ALL times? The point everyone is making here is that normally in the US a citizen is NOT REQUIRED to carry ID at all times. So you could easily be legally detained for something, Jaywalking, littering, riding a bike on the wrong side of the road, etc. etc., and not have any ID on you and this is completely legal. Now if you are stopped for anything such as this as a US citizen the cops will ask for ID and if you do not have it they will assume the person is illegal and it will be a big issue. If you do not understand this issue when it is plainly spelled out to you then there is no reason to continue.

Simple questions can give a cop a good indication that you are a citizen ...who's the president, who's the governor of your state, where do you live/work/go to school, what's a major intersection near your house.

 

[Freshgeardude]

If someone is being stopped and they dont have their ID on them, but they are in the system, it wouldnt be hard to tell the cop your name so they can check their database, where they can see your picture, and confirm you are a US citizen



we as US citizens are sick and tired of illegals drying up our money pool. If you fit the profile for common illegal, but are legal, and have a problem simply identifying yourself as such, then you dont see the problem we have.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Also being profiled in an Airport security line is much different than being subject to profiling in your home town.

You voluntarily give up your rights when you step on a plane imo.

It doesn't feel any less humiliating, though. My wife was pulled into an ICE room when we went to NY for a week long break two months ago. I was on my British Passport, she was on her Italian Passport. The Agent took one look at her passport, laughed sarcastically and said, "Follow me." I asked what the problem was and his only answer was, "Spanish name". More than likely it was also due to her birth town being Bogota, Colombia. OMG, illegal..

We went into the room, the Agent put her docs onto the desk where some more Agents were just yakking and goofing off. We waited ~30 minutes till an Agent that was actually processing people got to us, he took her papers, stamped them immediately, just as the first Agent should have done, and we left.

Did that really stop the crime of the century, or did it just start our holiday trip off a little sour?

 

[Red Dawn]

If someone is being stopped and they dont have their ID on them, but they are in the system, it wouldnt be hard to tell the cop your name so they can check their database, where they can see your picture, and confirm you are a US citizen



we as US citizens are sick and tired of illegals drying up our money pool. If you fit the profile for common illegal, but are legal, and have a problem simply identifying yourself as such, then you dont see the problem we have.

Yeah as if they are the reason our economy is in the dumps. Look I don't believe Illegal Immigrants should be here either but some of you seem drunk on the Koolaid you masters have served you to distract you from the real reason our country is in the shitter and that's those who rule this country and both parties.

 

[daishi5]

This is a little weird, but the NAACP is giving the local police a pass on profiling. They say they will watch it carefully, but I honestly don't see how racial profiling needs to be part of the local enforcement.

http://www.pjstar.com/news/tricount...ving-Peoria-police-a-pass-on-racial-profiling

Although it mostly sounds like the NAACP is promising not to complain that the police are stopping mostly black people in areas that are mostly black.

 

[Onceler]

It is "discrimination". The things that liberals never point out when they are on a rant (usually saying man is unnatural) is that it is natural to discriminate- animals in the wild do it and it keeps their gene pool healty.

 

[BoomerD]

Yeah as if they are the reason our economy is in the dumps. Look I don't believe Illegal Immigrants should be here either but some of you seem drunk on the Koolaid you masters have served you to distract you from the real reason our country is in the shitter and that's those who rule this country and both parties.

No, illegal immigration is not THE reason our economy is in the shitter, but it takes a toll. Hospitals are required to treat them without being paid, resulting in many hospitals here in Kahleeforneeya having to close their emergency rooms/trauma centers; many counties are experiencing final problems, caused in part by the illegals collecting welfare/food stamps/Medi-Cal...because they have an "anchor baby" that qualifies them for aid.

It is "discrimination". The things that liberals never point out when they are on a rant (usually saying man is unnatural) is that it is natural to discriminate- animals in the wild do it and it keeps their gene pool healty.

Discrimination itself isn't illegal. Everyone discriminates in some way, whether they admit it or not. It's how the discrimination is applied that becomes problematic.

for example, it's not illegal for me to refuse to invite the Mexicans down the street if I have a party, but if I'm hiring to fill a position at work, it'd be illegal as hell to refuse to hire them because of their national origin.

Using ONLY race as a means of profile can and will lead to problems, which is why I'm certain that there are far more factors used than just, "OMFG! BROWN PERSON!!"

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Many of the post 9-11 terrorists have been of different ethnicity/race. It would seem silly not to follow the same standards on everyone.

Profiling seems like it addresses old or current threats rather than new or emerging threats, too.

to focus on one group does not mean to ignore all other signs.

i have no problem with profiling. even if they start profiling mid 20's white males.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Many of the post 9-11 terrorists have been of different ethnicity/race. It would seem silly not to follow the same standards on everyone.

Profiling seems like it addresses old or current threats rather than new or emerging threats, too.

No, profiling seems to address threats that are currently most likely to exist if the purpose of your profiling is to protect the current situation. In the case of airports, you're profiling to prevent a possible terrorist attack for the flight or something of that day. If you are planning for the 2016 Olympic games then you had better analyze the current terrorist threats and what COULD happen in 2016 with the political climate and international relations.

The point is profiling can be tuned to address threats based on:

a) historical data
b) currently trending data
c) future possibilities

It's like investments and stocks. You make the best educated guess you can based on moving averages, charts, industry news, etc. You're right there are a lot of people who are wrong here and there. Not everyone predicts the next recession, but if you stick to the basics and are disciplined about your research, you can make good picks here and there.

Now why don't you go randomly buy stocks using "random" searches and see how well that turns out? Would you rather have your life savings invested in stocks and bonds and funds based on a random number generator or some money manager or yourself who performs diligent research? Which would you trust more?

Profiling improves your chances if you continuously adapt it to a changing environment. Just like up-to-date research helps your investments. But when you start slacking here and there and start second guessing and use emotions, profiling falls apart. Here's where you get racists shouting "search the Arabs!" and stuff like that. It takes great control to keep profiling under control, just like it takes a disciplined investor to make good calls and to avoid impulsive/rash decisions that can be costly.

 

[Munky]

The legal case against AZ immigration bill was not about profiling. Profiling is what the lame ass fresh-out-of-brainwashing-school kids think the bill was about.