What is ?really? going on with the Republicans

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

look at how stupid you are.

unemployment was at 9% when carter took office, 6% when he left.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

Carter? Agreed, he did a piss poor job - That was more than 3 decades ago.

Lets talk about the current world and the current economy. 8 years of republican rule took our booming economy and the first national surplus in my lifetime, and turned it into record deficits.

How exactly do you think rep's have ANY room to talk about the economy? Please, enlighten me.

What booming economy? We were already in a recession when Bush came into office.

the mildest recession in American history

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sportage
In the end I doubt one republican votes for the Obama stim package.
Why? The fear of what I call ?the Clinton Factor? or Clinton syndrome?.
Remember, Clinton came into office and stirred things up his way.
He proved the traditional republican way of doing things, the Reagan-nomics trickle down theory, was not so successful. During the 8 years of Clinton, and no one in their right mind can deny this any longer, under Clinton the country and the people did very well.
Maybe we had it too easy, thinking a good president and policy was a given.
Certainly in 2000 many American?s thought this way. We felt anyone, any party, any president could keep us in the black, and in the right. Later we learned, the hard way, this was not necessarily so.

So now, after 8 years of failed policy, comes along president Obama.
Elected by a healthy majority, with republicans taking a sever beating.

The republicans are now facing the cold reality, ?The Clinton factor?.
That is? If Obama?s stim package, which is actually the Obama policy of government, if this stim package works, then the republican ideology will suffer the fatal hard blow.
Fearing success from the Obama admin policy change, Republicans will have little to believe in come future elections.
After a very successful Clinton presidency, a failed Bush presidency, followed by a successful Obama presidency, republicans will feel doom at their doorstep.

So why will the republicans fight anything Obama does, suggests, attempts, so aggressively?
Why will right wing talk radio high gear their attack on this new admin, day after day.
Simply because republicans now see clearly they can not afford to take another hit from a successful democratic administration. Their wounds are too deep.

After voting billions to bail out wall street, do you really think republicans give a rats ?A? about spending billions on helping out main street?
After tossing billions at the Bush war, do you think they really care about tossing billions to help average American?s?
I think not.
Their fear is not the money. It?s the success.

During Watergate the key word was ?follow the money?.
Now the key word is ?follow their fear?.
Remember this in the coming weeks, months, and years as you watch republicans
continue to stir up their typical ideology rhetoric.
Concerned only with scoring points, and concerned not in helping American workers.
They have everything to lose, that is, if they let Obama succeed.
Look through their right wing rhetoric, and ask what is their real goal here.
Their fear of the Clinton syndrome. an Obama administration?s success.

And what happens in 24 months when this stimulus shows up late to the party and only adds inflation? Thus forcing the fed to raise interest rates to slow it and putting the brakes on the economy? Instead of a strong recovery we head back into a slagging economy.

Clinton had a Republican congress to contend with and an emerging industry(internet) to fuel our public coffers. Obama has neither.

inflation is absolutely not a threat right now, infact, its quite the opposite.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sportage
Their fear of the Clinton syndrome. an Obama administration?s success.

By all means move to bankrupt California and bask in all the glorious success that socialism provides.

The only reason a person would vote for this failure of a stimulus is that it has an entire years worth of pork barrel legislation all rolled into one and pushed on us under the guise of fear and terror if we don't pass it NOW.

The only reason California won't completely collapse is if this bailout passes and it hands them $40 Billion. So when failed socialist policy bankrupts the United States government, who is going to bail us out?

California is actually extremely successful and carries the U.S. economy on its back. The state government's financial woes are more due to its foolish system of relying on income tax for a large portion of revenue, rather than the size and scope of their social programs. Income taxes are subject to decline drastically during recessions like these.

lol really! is my sarcasm meter broken?

 

[nageov3t]

Clinton was personally popular... but IIRC, many of his major initiatives failed in congress and most of his tenure was marked by the democrats losing seats in the house and senate.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: retrospooty
You have said nothing to counter that, because there is nothing. Your boys screwed us up bad. Admit it.

He won't admit it, because he's already admitted that he's doing what he's doing as "revenge" for the past 8 years of Bush-bashing by the libs. He's a partisan douche at its highest form.

I know... But my experience with winnar is this... He will spout out his whiney negative attitude, and then when confronted with facts and /or logic, he stops posting. Its easier to fade away than to defend failed policies. This way he never has to face the fact that he is wrong.

Where are you winnar?

Republican policies got us here, and reps have ZERO room to talk about the economy right now... You have said nothing to counter that, because there is nothing. Your boys screwed us up bad. Admit it.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sportage
Their fear of the Clinton syndrome. an Obama administration?s success.

By all means move to bankrupt California and bask in all the glorious success that socialism provides.

The only reason a person would vote for this failure of a stimulus is that it has an entire years worth of pork barrel legislation all rolled into one and pushed on us under the guise of fear and terror if we don't pass it NOW.

The only reason California won't completely collapse is if this bailout passes and it hands them $40 Billion. So when failed socialist policy bankrupts the United States government, who is going to bail us out?

California is actually extremely successful and carries the U.S. economy on its back. The state government's financial woes are more due to its foolish system of relying on income tax for a large portion of revenue, rather than the size and scope of their social programs. Income taxes are subject to decline drastically during recessions like these.

lol really! is my sarcasm meter broken?

Not to be an ass or anything... but he is right. CA is by far the richest state in the union, and contributes by far the most taxes to the US treasury, and has for at least the past 40 years. If it were its own country, it would be the 7th richest nation on Earth (down from 5th during Clinton era). Now, granted their political system if totally filled with corruption. Its not socialist policies that ruined them, its total corruption... but if CA fails, the USA fails. They are the backbone of our economy.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

Carter? Agreed, he did a piss poor job - That was more than 3 decades ago.

Lets talk about the current world and the current economy. 8 years of republican rule took our booming economy and the first national surplus in my lifetime, and turned it into record deficits.

How exactly do you think rep's have ANY room to talk about the economy? Please, enlighten me.

That is wny most of the neocon repubics are gone. yea I said repubicans.

Do you think the european social domocracy is the answer? How about the nation moving the way of California and Michigan? :roll: Look anywhere where the Dems have a stranglehold their centralized government ideals have not worked and they are the most depressed parts of America.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: loki8481
Clinton was personally popular... but IIRC, many of his major initiatives failed in congress and most of his tenure was marked by the democrats losing seats in the house and senate.

Only because the Repugs sold their party off to the special interests to stay in power. They did a damn fine job in the early Clinton years in doing the RIGHT things (capping spending, starting to reduce debt...etc). They need to get back to that and drop the wedge issues.

 

[theeedude]

By the time GOP took over in 95, Clinton's economic policy (deficit reduction) was already in place. After that all he had to do is keep Republicans from screwing it up. After he left, they went ahead and screwed it up like they wanted to but couldn't before.
Also, this current stimulus has been too watered down by centrists and Republicans, and right now is too small and too tax cut focused to be effective. Because of this, we will need a second big stimulus bill, or many smaller bills to add additional stimulus.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Not to be an ass or anything... but he is right. CA is by far the richest state in the union, and contributes by far the most taxes to the US treasury, and has for at least the past 40 years. If it were its own country, it would be the 7th richest nation on Earth (down from 5th during Clinton era). Now, granted their political system if totally filled with corruption. Its not socialist policies that ruined them, its total corruption... but if CA fails, the USA fails. They are the backbone of our economy.

I'm curious - what makes you think that California's political system is "totally filled with corruption?"

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: senseamp
By the time GOP took over in 95, Clinton's economic policy (deficit reduction) was already in place. After that all he had to do is keep Republicans from screwing it up. After he left, they went ahead and screwed it up like they wanted to but couldn't before.
Also, this current stimulus has been too watered down by centrists and Republicans, and right now is too small and too tax cut focused to be effective. Because of this, we will need a second big stimulus bill, or many smaller bills to add additional stimulus.

One thing I liked about what Clinton did was to keep them contained in the late 90s when they wanted to start spending the surplus. It's funny that a democrat was the playing the republican.

That's really the problem with the Repuglican party now, they're nothing more than fascists in republican clothing. They want to control everything and do it for the benefit of big business.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: loki8481
Clinton was personally popular... but IIRC, many of his major initiatives failed in congress and most of his tenure was marked by the democrats losing seats in the house and senate.

Only because the Repugs sold their party off to the special interests to stay in power. They did a damn fine job in the early Clinton years in doing the RIGHT things (capping spending, starting to reduce debt...etc). They need to get back to that and drop the wedge issues.

I agree completely. If the GOP can just drop the social conservative nonsense that only serves to turn 60-70% of the nation off, and focused on their core fiscal values of small gov't/less spending/lower taxes, they'd be a lot more successful.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Not to be an ass or anything... but he is right. CA is by far the richest state in the union, and contributes by far the most taxes to the US treasury, and has for at least the past 40 years. If it were its own country, it would be the 7th richest nation on Earth (down from 5th during Clinton era). Now, granted their political system if totally filled with corruption. Its not socialist policies that ruined them, its total corruption... but if CA fails, the USA fails. They are the backbone of our economy.

I'm curious - what makes you think that California's political system is "totally filled with corruption?"

I lived there most of my life. I left 5 years ago. The waste is just rediculous. Companies pay politicians, and they in turn overpaying those companies for products and service. It goes on at rediculous levels CA. Makes Blagosovich look like a street corner con-artist.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sportage
In the end I doubt one republican votes for the Obama stim package.
Why? The fear of what I call ?the Clinton Factor? or Clinton syndrome?.
Remember, Clinton came into office and stirred things up his way.
He proved the traditional republican way of doing things, the Reagan-nomics trickle down theory, was not so successful. During the 8 years of Clinton, and no one in their right mind can deny this any longer, under Clinton the country and the people did very well.
Maybe we had it too easy, thinking a good president and policy was a given.
Certainly in 2000 many American?s thought this way. We felt anyone, any party, any president could keep us in the black, and in the right. Later we learned, the hard way, this was not necessarily so.

So now, after 8 years of failed policy, comes along president Obama.
Elected by a healthy majority, with republicans taking a sever beating.

The republicans are now facing the cold reality, ?The Clinton factor?.
That is? If Obama?s stim package, which is actually the Obama policy of government, if this stim package works, then the republican ideology will suffer the fatal hard blow.
Fearing success from the Obama admin policy change, Republicans will have little to believe in come future elections.
After a very successful Clinton presidency, a failed Bush presidency, followed by a successful Obama presidency, republicans will feel doom at their doorstep.

So why will the republicans fight anything Obama does, suggests, attempts, so aggressively?
Why will right wing talk radio high gear their attack on this new admin, day after day.
Simply because republicans now see clearly they can not afford to take another hit from a successful democratic administration. Their wounds are too deep.

After voting billions to bail out wall street, do you really think republicans give a rats ?A? about spending billions on helping out main street?
After tossing billions at the Bush war, do you think they really care about tossing billions to help average American?s?
I think not.
Their fear is not the money. It?s the success.

During Watergate the key word was ?follow the money?.
Now the key word is ?follow their fear?.
Remember this in the coming weeks, months, and years as you watch republicans
continue to stir up their typical ideology rhetoric.
Concerned only with scoring points, and concerned not in helping American workers.
They have everything to lose, that is, if they let Obama succeed.
Look through their right wing rhetoric, and ask what is their real goal here.
Their fear of the Clinton syndrome. an Obama administration?s success.

And what happens in 24 months when this stimulus shows up late to the party and only adds inflation? Thus forcing the fed to raise interest rates to slow it and putting the brakes on the economy? Instead of a strong recovery we head back into a slagging economy.

Clinton had a Republican congress to contend with and an emerging industry(internet) to fuel our public coffers. Obama has neither.

inflation is absolutely not a threat right now, infact, its quite the opposite.

Hence the reason I said " in 24 months". I understand right now deflation is an issue. However when our economy turns around that wont be a problem. With the amount of money the govt is injecting right into the economy inflation will come back.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Hence the reason I said " in 24 months". I understand right now deflation is an issue. However when our economy turns around that wont be a problem. With the amount of money the govt is injecting right into the economy inflation will come back.

So how do we deal with deflation now?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I do agree with that... I am no doomsday believer. This country is and always will be strong. The world as we know it will not end. We will have a recession, a bad one, and life will go on and it will get better. All I am saying is that the reps have ZERO room to talk about the economy right now. They and their policies screwed us up badly.

Specifically which policies?

Too much deficit spending? Nope, under Bush the deficit vs GDP ratio was lower than under his father or Reagan and it was getting smaller before the economy tanked.

Too little regulation? What specifically did Bush change or do different that Clinton or than what the Democrats voted for?

I don't think you can find a policy decision by Bush that lead to this recession. The genesis of this recession is the housing market melt down and both parties share blame on that fiasco.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: loki8481
Clinton was personally popular... but IIRC, many of his major initiatives failed in congress and most of his tenure was marked by the democrats losing seats in the house and senate.

Only because the Repugs sold their party off to the special interests to stay in power. They did a damn fine job in the early Clinton years in doing the RIGHT things (capping spending, starting to reduce debt...etc). They need to get back to that and drop the wedge issues.

I agree completely. If the GOP can just drop the social conservative nonsense that only serves to turn 60-70% of the nation off, and focused on their core fiscal values of small gov't/less spending/lower taxes, they'd be a lot more successful.

the problem, of course, is that the GOP's that advocate core fiscal values of small gov't/less spending/lower taxes and stay away from the social conservative nonsense have been (or are getting) voted out of office.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

look at how stupid you are.

unemployment was at 9% when carter took office, 6% when he left.

Look at how stupid you are.

Carter left at the END of 1980, not at the beginning.

The unemployment rate for 1980 is listed at 7.1% about the same as the start of his term. He did have two years where unemployment dropped though, buy economically his term might be the worst since FDR.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: bozack
clinton had a tech bubble, thankfully Obama won't have this luxury...all we will get are more bloated and wasteful social services programs, expansion of unions, and other perks for the poor that tax and punish those who are middle to upper middle wage earners.

Thankfully? I hope we have another tech bubble... Technology needs to be put on the forefront again. I believe we will have on yet again, weather you realize it or not the tech bubble (while speculators got burned) created tons of jobs even after the bubble.


As for the repubs? I think we should start hanging a few every week ... Until they got with the program. They are a bunch of dush bags that need to get taken out with the trash. At least the dems gave bush a chance when we shouldn't have. You need to back the president and not let your 'personal' or 'religious' views get in the way.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: bozack
clinton had a tech bubble, thankfully Obama won't have this luxury...all we will get are more bloated and wasteful social services programs, expansion of unions, and other perks for the poor that tax and punish those who are middle to upper middle wage earners.

Thankfully? I hope we have another tech bubble... Technology needs to be put on the forefront again. I believe we will have on yet again, weather you realize it or not the tech bubble (while speculators got burned) created tons of jobs even after the bubble.


As for the repubs? I think we should start hanging a few every week ... Until they got with the program. They are a bunch of dush bags that need to get taken out with the trash. At least the dems gave bush a chance when we shouldn't have. You need to back the president and not let your 'personal' or 'religious' views get in the way.

Your post is totally correct... Except is spelled "douche" LOL

 

[fskimospy]

Nah, a few Republicans will vote for it. I guarantee it's passage. If the Republicans block this bill and the recession gets worse, they will get all the blame and they will be slaughtered YET AGAIN in Congressional elections. They won't let that happen, so the question for them is how many Republicans they need to vote for it so it passes, but so they can still complain if it doesn't fix everything, but enough that they can take some credit in close House/Senate races if it does. The answer to that is: 'not many'. So, they will have a few moderate Republicans peel off to vote for the new bill in both the House and Senate, but I don't expect the numbers to be high. (if the numbers are too high, then the Republicans can't complain if it doesn't work.)

All politics.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: bozack
clinton had a tech bubble, thankfully Obama won't have this luxury...all we will get are more bloated and wasteful social services programs, expansion of unions, and other perks for the poor that tax and punish those who are middle to upper middle wage earners.

This is ideology and propaganda - when the 'other side' disproves your theory, just find some little phrase with a nugget of truth and say they didn't do any other things right.

The fact is, for example, that every Republican I can find who commented on Clinton's 1993 tax increase on the rich - and every prominent Republican I can find did comment - predicted disaster for the economy, a plummeting cycle, destroying the nation's growth and other calamties as guaranteed if it passed. There was a great test who was rigght - and the Democrats were right.

But the Republicans never learn any such lesson for the most part, they just find a phrase - 'oh it was all the tech bubble' - to defend their ideology.

It reminds me of the people who continue to defend any discredit ideology. It's nuts.

But it keeps the cult going.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Not to be an ass or anything... but he is right. CA is by far the richest state in the union, and contributes by far the most taxes to the US treasury, and has for at least the past 40 years. If it were its own country, it would be the 7th richest nation on Earth (down from 5th during Clinton era). Now, granted their political system if totally filled with corruption. Its not socialist policies that ruined them, its total corruption... but if CA fails, the USA fails. They are the backbone of our economy.

ummm it's the LARGEST state by a LOT. So of course it is the richest and contributes the most money.

It is 50% larger than the next largest state. It has 12 million more people than Texas. Think about that number, 12 million is the population of Illinois, Pennsylvania or Ohio. If Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania joined into one state it would still be smaller than California.

Take away its huge population and it is not so impressive. It only ranks 11th in Per capita personal income. It ranks 10th on per capita GDP. It ranks 11th on the 'Human Development Index.' 12th on median income. A shocking 35th on poverty rate, the higher the worse off a state is and California is above the national average. It currently has the FOURTH highest unemployment in the nation. Maybe their new motto should be "Hey, we are still better off than Michigan"

You get the point? The only thing that makes California truly special is its size. Take away that and it becomes a good state, but nothing great.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

Carter? Agreed, he did a piss poor job - That was more than 3 decades ago.

Lets talk about the current world and the current economy. 8 years of republican rule took our booming economy and the first national surplus in my lifetime, and turned it into record deficits.

How exactly do you think rep's have ANY room to talk about the economy? Please, enlighten me.

And what happened when bush took office, a recession was starting. So the govt is doing now what it did then, defect spending. The liberal cried about record deficits, but never bothered to adjust them to inflation or GDP. Had they done that, there would have been little toe scream about.

Now we are faced with another recession, with many of the housing problems caused by govt. we have just been burned by 700B in tarp that crammed down(where did the money go). Now they are back asking for another 800B wh8ich they seem to spend in way which may not produce enough stimulus or jobs.