What is ?really? going on with the Republicans

[sportage]

In the end I doubt one republican votes for the Obama stim package.
Why? The fear of what I call ?the Clinton Factor? or Clinton syndrome?.
Remember, Clinton came into office and stirred things up his way.
He proved the traditional republican way of doing things, the Reagan-nomics trickle down theory, was not so successful. During the 8 years of Clinton, and no one in their right mind can deny this any longer, under Clinton the country and the people did very well.
Maybe we had it too easy, thinking a good president and policy was a given.
Certainly in 2000 many American?s thought this way. We felt anyone, any party, any president could keep us in the black, and in the right. Later we learned, the hard way, this was not necessarily so.

So now, after 8 years of failed policy, comes along president Obama.
Elected by a healthy majority, with republicans taking a sever beating.

The republicans are now facing the cold reality, ?The Clinton factor?.
That is? If Obama?s stim package, which is actually the Obama policy of government, if this stim package works, then the republican ideology will suffer the fatal hard blow.
Fearing success from the Obama admin policy change, Republicans will have little to believe in come future elections.
After a very successful Clinton presidency, a failed Bush presidency, followed by a successful Obama presidency, republicans will feel doom at their doorstep.

So why will the republicans fight anything Obama does, suggests, attempts, so aggressively?
Why will right wing talk radio high gear their attack on this new admin, day after day.
Simply because republicans now see clearly they can not afford to take another hit from a successful democratic administration. Their wounds are too deep.

After voting billions to bail out wall street, do you really think republicans give a rats ?A? about spending billions on helping out main street?
After tossing billions at the Bush war, do you think they really care about tossing billions to help average American?s?
I think not.
Their fear is not the money. It?s the success.

During Watergate the key word was ?follow the money?.
Now the key word is ?follow their fear?.
Remember this in the coming weeks, months, and years as you watch republicans
continue to stir up their typical ideology rhetoric.
Concerned only with scoring points, and concerned not in helping American workers.
They have everything to lose, that is, if they let Obama succeed.
Look through their right wing rhetoric, and ask what is their real goal here.
Their fear of the Clinton syndrome. an Obama administration?s success.

 

[bozack]

clinton had a tech bubble, thankfully Obama won't have this luxury...all we will get are more bloated and wasteful social services programs, expansion of unions, and other perks for the poor that tax and punish those who are middle to upper middle wage earners.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sportage
Their fear of the Clinton syndrome. an Obama administration?s success.

By all means move to bankrupt California and bask in all the glorious success that socialism provides.

The only reason a person would vote for this failure of a stimulus is that it has an entire years worth of pork barrel legislation all rolled into one and pushed on us under the guise of fear and terror if we don't pass it NOW.

The only reason California won't completely collapse is if this bailout passes and it hands them $40 Billion. So when failed socialist policy bankrupts the United States government, who is going to bail us out?

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sportage
Their fear of the Clinton syndrome. an Obama administration?s success.

By all means move to bankrupt California and bask in all the glorious success that socialism provides.

The only reason a person would vote for this failure of a stimulus is that it has an entire years worth of pork barrel legislation all rolled into one and pushed on us under the guise of fear and terror if we don't pass it NOW.

The only reason California won't completely collapse is if this bailout passes and it hands them $40 Billion. So when failed socialist policy bankrupts the United States government, who is going to bail us out?

California is actually extremely successful and carries the U.S. economy on its back. The state government's financial woes are more due to its foolish system of relying on income tax for a large portion of revenue, rather than the size and scope of their social programs. Income taxes are subject to decline drastically during recessions like these.

 

[DealMonkey]

You're totally correct, Sportage. Fact is, after bitching for 8 years about how liberals attacked Bush for every single petty thing he did, and never gave him credit for doing anything right, the Republicans and their media lapdogs (AM, Fox, etc.) are doing the exact same thing. It's partisan hypocrisy at its finest. You can see this reflected in every single retarded post Winnar11!!1One makes around here. He's the poster boy for bitter GOP members who are content to be nitpicking petty assholes who attack and attack and who's only role will be relegated to attempting to obstruct everything Obama wants to do.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: bozack
clinton had a tech bubble, thankfully Obama won't have this luxury...all we will get are more bloated and wasteful social services programs, expansion of unions, and other perks for the poor that tax and punish those who are middle to upper middle wage earners.

Well, thats a good republican parrot job... It's too bad slamming anything and everything that the dems do doesn't make you knowledgeable on the economy. It just makes you look bitter.

 

[winnar111]

Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

Carter? Agreed, he did a piss poor job - That was more than 3 decades ago.

Lets talk about the current world and the current economy. 8 years of republican rule took our booming economy and the first national surplus in my lifetime, and turned it into record deficits.

How exactly do you think rep's have ANY room to talk about the economy? Please, enlighten me.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

Carter? Agreed, he did a piss poor job - That was more than 3 decades ago.

Lets talk about the current world and the current economy. 8 years of republican rule took our booming economy and the first national surplus in my lifetime, and turned it into record deficits.

How exactly do you think rep's have ANY room to talk about the economy? Please, enlighten me.

What booming economy? We were already in a recession when Bush came into office.

 

[HomerJS]

People throw around the work "pork" when it comes to the stim. I grant there are things there we can do without but what percentage of the stim is actual "pork"?

What the Repubs seem do be doing is finding small items in the bill such as contraceptives talk them to death in an attempt to deamonize the entire bill.

I've heard estimates actual pork is less then 5%.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

Carter? Agreed, he did a piss poor job - That was more than 3 decades ago.

Lets talk about the current world and the current economy. 8 years of republican rule took our booming economy and the first national surplus in my lifetime, and turned it into record deficits.

How exactly do you think rep's have ANY room to talk about the economy? Please, enlighten me.

What booming economy? We were already in a recession when Bush came into office.

Really ? What country is that you are talking about? The peak had passed and things were on a downward trend as they always do fluctuate. What does that have to do with the situation we are in now after 8 years of rep. policies? We are NOT in a normal fluctuation now.

We are NOW, after 8 years of rep. policies - in the worst financial disaster since the great depression, and your defense is Carter? And a minor downturn at the end of the Clinton admin ? Wake up and stick to the current situation. Republican policies got us here, and reps have ZERO room to talk about the economy right now... You have said nothing to counter that, because there is nothing. Your boys screwed us up bad. Admit it.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: sportage
In the end I doubt one republican votes for the Obama stim package.
Why? The fear of what I call ?the Clinton Factor? or Clinton syndrome?.
Remember, Clinton came into office and stirred things up his way.
He proved the traditional republican way of doing things, the Reagan-nomics trickle down theory, was not so successful. During the 8 years of Clinton, and no one in their right mind can deny this any longer, under Clinton the country and the people did very well.
Maybe we had it too easy, thinking a good president and policy was a given.
Certainly in 2000 many American?s thought this way. We felt anyone, any party, any president could keep us in the black, and in the right. Later we learned, the hard way, this was not necessarily so.

So now, after 8 years of failed policy, comes along president Obama.
Elected by a healthy majority, with republicans taking a sever beating.

The republicans are now facing the cold reality, ?The Clinton factor?.
That is? If Obama?s stim package, which is actually the Obama policy of government, if this stim package works, then the republican ideology will suffer the fatal hard blow.
Fearing success from the Obama admin policy change, Republicans will have little to believe in come future elections.
After a very successful Clinton presidency, a failed Bush presidency, followed by a successful Obama presidency, republicans will feel doom at their doorstep.

So why will the republicans fight anything Obama does, suggests, attempts, so aggressively?
Why will right wing talk radio high gear their attack on this new admin, day after day.
Simply because republicans now see clearly they can not afford to take another hit from a successful democratic administration. Their wounds are too deep.

After voting billions to bail out wall street, do you really think republicans give a rats ?A? about spending billions on helping out main street?
After tossing billions at the Bush war, do you think they really care about tossing billions to help average American?s?
I think not.
Their fear is not the money. It?s the success.

During Watergate the key word was ?follow the money?.
Now the key word is ?follow their fear?.
Remember this in the coming weeks, months, and years as you watch republicans
continue to stir up their typical ideology rhetoric.
Concerned only with scoring points, and concerned not in helping American workers.
They have everything to lose, that is, if they let Obama succeed.
Look through their right wing rhetoric, and ask what is their real goal here.
Their fear of the Clinton syndrome. an Obama administration?s success.

And what happens in 24 months when this stimulus shows up late to the party and only adds inflation? Thus forcing the fed to raise interest rates to slow it and putting the brakes on the economy? Instead of a strong recovery we head back into a slagging economy.

Clinton had a Republican congress to contend with and an emerging industry(internet) to fuel our public coffers. Obama has neither.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
You have said nothing to counter that, because there is nothing. Your boys screwed us up bad. Admit it.

He won't admit it, because he's already admitted that he's doing what he's doing as "revenge" for the past 8 years of Bush-bashing by the libs. He's a partisan douche at its highest form.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

Carter? Agreed, he did a piss poor job - That was more than 3 decades ago.

Lets talk about the current world and the current economy. 8 years of republican rule took our booming economy and the first national surplus in my lifetime, and turned it into record deficits.

How exactly do you think rep's have ANY room to talk about the economy? Please, enlighten me.

What booming economy? We were already in a recession when Bush came into office.

Really ? What country is that you are talking about? The peak had passed and things were on a downward trend as they always do fluctuate. What does that have to do with the situation we are in now after 8 years of rep. policies? We are NOT in a normal fluctuation now.

We are NOW, after 8 years of rep. policies - in the worst financial disaster since the great depression, and your defense is Carter? And a minor downturn at the end of the Clinton admin ? Wake up and stick to the current situation. Republican policies got us here, and reps have ZERO room to talk about the economy right now... You have said nothing to counter that, because there is nothing. Your boys screwed us up bad. Admit it.

This is bad, but you think the 70s were better? Near double digit unemployment, double digit inflation and double digit fed rates?

Anybody starting to think our economic systems are on a ~30 years cycle? GD in 32-42, stagflation of the 70s till 82, now we are hit again in 08 26 years later.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: retrospooty
You have said nothing to counter that, because there is nothing. Your boys screwed us up bad. Admit it.

He won't admit it, because he's already admitted that he's doing what he's doing as "revenge" for the past 8 years of Bush-bashing by the libs. He's a partisan douche at its highest form.

I know... But my experience with winnar is this... He will spout out his whiney negative attitude, and then when confronted with facts and /or logic, he stops posting. Its easier to fade away than to defend failed policies. This way he never has to face the fact that he is wrong.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sportage
In the end I doubt one republican votes for the Obama stim package.
Why? The fear of what I call ?the Clinton Factor? or Clinton syndrome?.
Remember, Clinton came into office and stirred things up his way.
He proved the traditional republican way of doing things, the Reagan-nomics trickle down theory, was not so successful. During the 8 years of Clinton, and no one in their right mind can deny this any longer, under Clinton the country and the people did very well.
Maybe we had it too easy, thinking a good president and policy was a given.
Certainly in 2000 many American?s thought this way. We felt anyone, any party, any president could keep us in the black, and in the right. Later we learned, the hard way, this was not necessarily so.

So now, after 8 years of failed policy, comes along president Obama.
Elected by a healthy majority, with republicans taking a sever beating.

The republicans are now facing the cold reality, ?The Clinton factor?.
That is? If Obama?s stim package, which is actually the Obama policy of government, if this stim package works, then the republican ideology will suffer the fatal hard blow.
Fearing success from the Obama admin policy change, Republicans will have little to believe in come future elections.
After a very successful Clinton presidency, a failed Bush presidency, followed by a successful Obama presidency, republicans will feel doom at their doorstep.

So why will the republicans fight anything Obama does, suggests, attempts, so aggressively?
Why will right wing talk radio high gear their attack on this new admin, day after day.
Simply because republicans now see clearly they can not afford to take another hit from a successful democratic administration. Their wounds are too deep.

After voting billions to bail out wall street, do you really think republicans give a rats ?A? about spending billions on helping out main street?
After tossing billions at the Bush war, do you think they really care about tossing billions to help average American?s?
I think not.
Their fear is not the money. It?s the success.

During Watergate the key word was ?follow the money?.
Now the key word is ?follow their fear?.
Remember this in the coming weeks, months, and years as you watch republicans
continue to stir up their typical ideology rhetoric.
Concerned only with scoring points, and concerned not in helping American workers.
They have everything to lose, that is, if they let Obama succeed.
Look through their right wing rhetoric, and ask what is their real goal here.
Their fear of the Clinton syndrome. an Obama administration?s success.

And what happens in 24 months when this stimulus shows up late to the party and only adds inflation? Thus forcing the fed to raise interest rates to slow it and putting the brakes on the economy? Instead of a strong recovery we head back into a slagging economy.

Clinton had a Republican congress to contend with and an emerging industry(internet) to fuel our public coffers. Obama has neither.

At this point, low borrowing rates do not matter. If nobody is willing to borrow, because they want to pay down existing debt, and nobody is willing to lend to those who want to actually consume (and can), then rates can be 0% and it won't matter.

The biggest problem at this point is staunching the flood of job losses, getting the banks to clean up, sorting out the CDS mess, and getting things back in order. I think those are all moves Obama is taking.


The real problem with the Republicans is that they've sold their souls to stay in power, in one form or another, for the last 25 years. First it was countering the commies by spending tons of money, then it was the "contract with America", which was actually the RIGHT step. Then, once that sputtered out, it was TERROR TERROR TERROR, gay marriage, and other trash. They utilized fear and religion to spur the masses to newer heights of furor.

Now they're seeing the backlash against that. The younger generation wants something different.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Genx87

This is bad, but you think the 70s were better? Near double digit unemployment, double digit inflation and double digit fed rates?

Anybody starting to think our economic systems are on a ~30 years cycle? GD in 32-42, stagflation of the 70s till 82, now we are hit again in 08 26 years later.

Every economist in the country agrees this is/ will be the worst since the great depression... Except of course you. the only thing the 70's had worse than what we have coming, are oil shortages, which were artificially created by Opec.

 

[DealMonkey]

And BTW, I actually gave the Bush Administration and GOP Congress much credit for what was actually a great economy that lasted for 4-5 years there. Unfortunately, it was built on a house of cards - namely zero regulation of our financial and investment institutions, zero enforcement by the SEC, borrow and spend fiscal policy, massive tax cuts during a time when the country was fighting two wars, etc. - and it was only a matter of time until it all came tumbling down.

I enjoyed it while it lasted though.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Genx87

This is bad, but you think the 70s were better? Near double digit unemployment, double digit inflation and double digit fed rates?

Anybody starting to think our economic systems are on a ~30 years cycle? GD in 32-42, stagflation of the 70s till 82, now we are hit again in 08 26 years later.

Every economist in the country agrees this is/ will be the worst since the great depression... Except of course you. the only thing the 70's had worse than what we have coming, are oil shortages, which were artificially created by Opec.

And, amazingly, almost every economist in the US thought that the last bubble was going to go on for a long time.

What you see in the news are the economists that capture the headlines with dire predictions, it's how news agencies attract stories. The more dramatic, the better.

In reality, most economists think that we're in for tough times, but that the fundamentals of this country are still strong. We have adversity, but we also have strength.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Genx87

This is bad, but you think the 70s were better? Near double digit unemployment, double digit inflation and double digit fed rates?

Anybody starting to think our economic systems are on a ~30 years cycle? GD in 32-42, stagflation of the 70s till 82, now we are hit again in 08 26 years later.

Every economist in the country agrees this is/ will be the worst since the great depression... Except of course you. the only thing the 70's had worse than what we have coming, are oil shortages, which were artificially created by Opec.

And, amazingly, almost every economist in the US thought that the last bubble was going to go on for a long time.

What you see in the news are the economists that capture the headlines with dire predictions, it's how news agencies attract stories. The more dramatic, the better.

In reality, most economists think that we're in for tough times, but that the fundamentals of this country are still strong. We have adversity, but we also have strength.

I do agree with that... I am no doomsday believer. This country is and always will be strong. The world as we know it will not end. We will have a recession, a bad one, and life will go on and it will get better. All I am saying is that the reps have ZERO room to talk about the economy right now. They and their policies screwed us up badly.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

So I'm wondering what the point of the OP is. Seems to me it's nothing but yet another liberal rant about how evil those who don't like BHO are. No real idea to debate/talk about - just partisan opinion about something they've been shown time and time again they know nothing about (the Rs )

Why don't you libs start spending your time and effort trying to keep your party in line and holding them to their promises of the last 2 years that they consistently are breaking. Because really - no R gives a rats ass what you or other libs think is "really" going on in the R party.

 

[HomerJS]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

Carter? Agreed, he did a piss poor job - That was more than 3 decades ago.

Lets talk about the current world and the current economy. 8 years of republican rule took our booming economy and the first national surplus in my lifetime, and turned it into record deficits.

How exactly do you think rep's have ANY room to talk about the economy? Please, enlighten me.

What booming economy? We were already in a recession when Bush came into office.

Hate to throw water on that but the recession started in March 2001.
article

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: HomerJS

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111
Funny. After 2 years of Clinton, his own party rebelled against him and ran each other out of town.

What funny, is after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which were rep. controlled congress, republicans STILL think they have room to talk about the economy.

We tried it your way and it failed miserably. Now step off, sit down and shut up.

Guess someone's forgotten Carter 12% unemployment.

Carter? Agreed, he did a piss poor job - That was more than 3 decades ago.

Lets talk about the current world and the current economy. 8 years of republican rule took our booming economy and the first national surplus in my lifetime, and turned it into record deficits.

How exactly do you think rep's have ANY room to talk about the economy? Please, enlighten me.

What booming economy? We were already in a recession when Bush came into office.

Hate to throw water on that but the recession started in March 2001.
article

That report was later revisited a couple years later to show the recession began in Q3 2000.

"The National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) uses a variety of economic data to determine the dates of business-cycle peaks and troughs. This task is made more difficult because many of these data series are subject to revision. For example, on November 26, 2001, the NBER announced that a recession had begun in March 2001. Since then, the four data series that the NBER used to determine the timing of the recession have been revised. The revisions to these series suggest that the recent recession began earlier than March 2001.

The four series cited by the NBER in their decision about the recent business-cycle peak were revised as follows:

* Real personal income less transfers:When the NBER dated the recession, this series showed a generally steady rise throughout 2000 and early 2001. Subsequent revisions reveal that income peaked in October 2000.
* Nonfarm payroll employment: The data at the time of the recession announcement showed employment growing at a substantial pace in early 2001, with 287,000 jobs added from December 2000 to its peak in March 2001. Revised data show that employment grew less than one-third of this amount in early 2001 and peaked in February 2001.
* Industrial production:The original data used by the NBER showed that this series peaked in September 2000. Revised data show that this peak came even earlier, in June 2000.
* Manufacturing and trade sales: Original data showed a peak in August 2000; the most recent data show a peak in June 2000.