What is Nvidia going to do ?

[The Alias]

So I've had some time to look at couple benchmark reviews and I see although the 780 is a superior piece of hardware, the 280x cards nip at it's heels pretty often; so much so, Tpu's review had the 780 and Titan pegged at only 16% and 24% more powerful than the msi gaming 280x @ 1080p

Now looking at those results, let's look at the 290x . The 290x has double the 280x's rops to alleviate tahiti's worst bottleneck, 1.4 more shaders, and 1.375 more tmu's . I mean with specs like that, I don't see any way for Titan or it's big brother to compete and that's before we get into Mantle . So the question is How is Nvidia going to counter what seems to be an absolute monster coming from Amd's camp ?

 

[Brahmzy]

They will - don't worry.

 

[Tempered81]

290x will probably be only ~5% faster than titan out of the gate. Nvidia can make up for that with a 50mhz bump in core speeds. Then can add another 10% if they release a "Titan Ultra", and Maxwell is right around the corner. Should be no problem for them.

They're just going to look bad with their pricing model when $599 290X > $1000 Titan. Even if it is only 1% faster.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

They will - don't worry.

Yeah, next year around September.

 

[maddie]

They will - don't worry.

Isn't that a faith based answer?

 

[Gloomy]

Isn't that a faith based answer?

What did you expect, when brands are a religion?

 

[Brahmzy]

I wish they'd get their arses kicked in the dirt by AMD for a long time to come - prices may return to earth that way. This is just getting stupid lately. And I'm not one to complain about cost.

 

[bystander36]

I wish they'd get their arses kicked in the dirt by AMD for a long time to come - prices may return to earth that way. This is just getting stupid lately. And I'm not one to complain about cost.

When AMD dominates performance, they will jack their prices up. If Nvidia does, they jack up their prices. The best case is that they compete closely, in which case they try to compete with price. Having one of them dominate leads to that brand not having any pressure to have competitive pricing.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Yeah, next year around September.

No, trust me
There will be some kind of direct response to Hawaii (new GK110-card and probably some price reductions) and in Q1/2014 we'll see the first Maxwell cards.

 

[maddie]

When AMD dominates performance, they will jack their prices up. If Nvidia does, they jack up their prices. The best case is that they compete closely, in which case they try to compete with price. Having one of them dominate leads to that brand not having any pressure to have competitive pricing.

What's the saying in politics?

You get the Government you deserve.

 

[raghu78]

this is an observation I have to make.

HD 7770 (1 Ghz) - 37
( 640 sp, 40 TMU, 1 geometry engine, 1 rasterizer, 4 RBE, 16 ROPs, 128 bit memory bus, 5 Ghz mem, 80 GB/s)
HD 7870 (1 ghz) - 69
(1280 sp, 80 TMU, 2 geometry engine, 2 rasterizers, 8 RBE, 32 ROPs, 256 bit memory bus, 5 Ghz mem, 160 GB/s)

R9 290 (1 Ghz) - 128 (applying a similar scaling of 85% as HD 7870 from HD 7770)
(2560 sp, 160 TMU, 4 geometry engine, 4 rasterizers, 16 RBE, 64 ROPs, 512 bit memory bus, 5 Ghz mem, 320 GB/s)

R9 290(947 mhz) - 120

R9 290X(1 Ghz) - 138 - 140
(2816 sp, 160 TMU, 4 geometry engine, 4 rasterizers, 16 RBE, 64 ROPs, 512 bit memory bus, 5 Ghz mem, 320 GB/s)

http://imageshack.us/f/842/tkqx.jpg/

This is not entirely impossible. think about it. AMD has doubled Pitcairn aka HD 7870 for R9 290 and gone 10% more for R9 290X. AMD has addressed all the bottlenecks of Tahiti and built a massive and well balanced chip.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

No, trust me
There will be some kind of direct response to Hawaii (new GK110-card and probably some price reductions) and in Q1/2014 we'll see the first Maxwell cards.

Well obviously the full gk110 is an option, but I don't think it will be enough to definitively win back the performance crown from the r9 290x based on rumors. Full GK110 is probably what, maybe 5% faster than Titan?

What happens if Mantle pans out?

 

[krumme]

No, trust me
There will be some kind of direct response to Hawaii (new GK110-card and probably some price reductions) and in Q1/2014 we'll see the first Maxwell cards.

That seems like confirmation of what everyone suspect right now:

Nv will give titan ultra. Amd will just increase low clocks on 290 as a response.
We will then see a midrange maxwell.
That is basically the same as saying there will be no highend response from nv until 20nm q4 2014.

That just show amd have the highend firmly in their posession.
For the midrange nv already have a good position and if midrange haswell is good then amd better have an cost production cheaper alternative to 280x.

 

[imaheadcase]

These are high end cards, they don't have to do nothing because you said it yourself, Titan is still faster. Don't see what they have to do.

Stop talking about Mantle, it won't "pan out" because its a niche product that is not even proven yet, it has to many question marks. Remember its the same card they put true audio on..so that pretty much answers that question.

 

[AtenRa]

Any links to confirm the new Architecture will be on 28nm and not 20nm ??? Because I highly doubt they will make Maxwell on 28nm. Also, if we will not see a new architecture from NVIDIA until December 2013, forget about Maxwell at 28nm. It will most probable be a 20nm at the end of 2014.

 

[DaveSimmons]

When AMD dominates performance, they will jack their prices up. If Nvidia does, they jack up their prices. The best case is that they compete closely, in which case they try to compete with price. Having one of them dominate leads to that brand not having any pressure to have competitive pricing.

Exactly. Both have done it before (gouging). Both have forced the other to drop prices by offering better value.

 

[krumme]

Any links to confirm the new Architecture will be on 28nm and not 20nm ??? Because I highly doubt they will make Maxwell on 28nm. Also, if we will not see a new architecture from NVIDIA until December 2013, forget about Maxwell at 28nm. It will most probable be a 20nm at the end of 2014.

This is pure speculation solely on what makes sense from a business perspective:
Its easier to produce gpu arch on a new node on a smaller die. Especially if its a new node.
Tsmc is traditionally ramping slow.
New 20nm node is very expensive because gpu are fighting with mobile phones for mm2.
The mobile gaming market is in growth relative to desktop.
Therefore:
If tsmc process can in anyway start to ramp a little q1-q2 2014 it makes sense to introduce aprox 140mm2 dies intended for mobile highend first.
It makes no sense to introduce a new monster 450mm2 20nm on a brand new process, produce it with horendeous yields and then sell it at very limited numbers. That will have to wait until price and yield makes it profitable. Q4 2014 can slip to q1 2015 here.

 

[boxleitnerb]

H2 2014 for 20nm, not earlier. Likely Q4. Do you honestly think Nvidia is not releasing anything new until then? GK104 will be 2 years old in spring 2014, that's a long time.

On the other hand...Tahiti will have lived for 2+ years, too, once it is phased out in 2014.

 

[Black Octagon]

What WILL they do? Not sure

What would I like them to do? Reduce their prices (a lot)

 

[Gikaseixas]

...and someone here says that competition won't trigger price wars We need a healthy AMD in Graphics and CPUs period. This is what competition brings (advantages to the buyer)

 

[wand3r3r]

H2 2014 for 20nm, not earlier. Likely Q4. Do you honestly think Nvidia is not releasing anything new until then? GK104 will be 2 years old in spring 2014, that's a long time.

On the other hand...Tahiti will have lived for 2+ years, too, once it is phased out in 2014.

They are preparing more rebrands on the low end, I doubt they'd bother but rather would just drop prices if something new was coming soon. I doubt the 7xx series rebrands will only be sold for 6 months. Maxell in 2h 14 imo.

For now only the most unwitting or avid fanboy will buy the overpriced cards (760/770) so I guess they will be forced to cut prices. For now I expect them to wait and see if people will keep unwittingly paying the absurd prices and let the new AMD cards pricing/performance be revealed.

 

[boxleitnerb]

They are preparing more rebrands on the low end, I doubt they'd bother but rather would just drop prices if something new was coming soon. I doubt the 7xx series rebrands will only be sold for 6 months. Maxell in 2h 14 imo.

For now only the most unwitting or avid fanboy will buy the overpriced cards (760/770) so I guess they will be forced to cut prices. For now I expect them to wait and see if people will keep unwittingly paying the absurd prices and let the new AMD cards pricing/performance be revealed.

Well, I have some info, what do you have?

As for the overpriced cards: They are too expensive, but to call every buyer a fanboy, is an uncalled for insult. Did it ever cross your mind that some people buy Nvidia for a specific reason? fps/$ isn't everything for everybody. I look at the complete deal with features/tweaking possibilities included. Some things AMD cannot offer me, so I don't care if they are less expensive - no buy from me for the foreseeable future.

 

[wand3r3r]

Well, I have some info, what do you have?

As for the overpriced cards: They are too expensive, but to call every buyer a fanboy, is an uncalled for insult. Did it ever cross your mind that some people buy Nvidia for a specific reason? fps/$ isn't everything for everybody. I look at the complete deal with features/tweaking possibilities included. Some things AMD cannot offer me, so I don't care if they are less expensive - no buy from me for the foreseeable future.

I said "unwitting" as in uniformed, or "avid fanboy", that is just my opinion. If you have the opinion that a few little software features add a 33% premium, that's fine. A lot of buyers are simply uninformed or stuck on the brand name. How else can the absurdly overpriced 770 sell at this point?

I'm not calling every buyer a fanboy either. I'm speaking primarily about the higher end NV cards which have the highest markups ever. (770 33% markup with literally no performance gain (1%?)) There are other cards which are likely a little closer to the AMD counterparts which I could see the buyer going either way.

As for your information, are you saying maxell is coming soon? I guess I missed that.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Well, we have the fanboys, the uninformed (the average joe that is) and then there are people who make a conscious decision. I find it odd that the last group is almost always excluded when talking about value.
There are so many (sometimes small) things that I don't want to lose, and when I add them all up, I'm absolutely willing to pay the premium. I'll never buy a $1000 card again though - that was a one time impulsive buy because I couldn't wait any longer. But around 550 € is fine by me. I paid the same amount for all my highend cards in the last years. X800XT PE, 8800 GTX and GTX 580

 

[biostud]

If you buy a 780, I do hope you don't play @ 1080p.